Thinking in Ranges (Day 3 Course Discussion)

Aleks75

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-------------------------------Hi!:hello:---------------------------------
Since I play freerolls and microlemites, knowing diapaposes helps only in the late stages of tournaments(when the fish with their garbage hands leave).As a friend of the program told me, ranges are needed after Abi-20.And the GTO strategy is for abi -200 or Nl-500.I think he's wrong about something?
 
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Murph1969

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I’m sorry but this is my second time taking the course and I just don’t believe 1. Any of this stuff matters
2. You have time to think about all this when it’s your turn to act

You either have the best hand or you don’t. It really is that simple.
 
YuriSLopes

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This one is a hard skill to acquire.

Definitely needs tools to study and practice.

But it's much needed also.

With a decent tracker you'll get not only get hands history but also some frequencies of villain which will help you tremendously with finding villain's range.

And another tool would be an equity calculator so that you can stablish villain's range street by street.

You can do all of these for free, there's tools that do what I said for free, but as soon as you start to profit at the felt I recommend investing in tools with more features.

Thanks CC for the "Becoming a Winning Poker Player in 30 Days".
 
AlexStar1981

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I am 100 percent sure that your training course is very effective and the best. And if the book can still be translated, then the video is very tight. It's a pity that there is at least no subtitles for the video in Russian, because I don't understand English at all. (((
Think about it )))
 
pirateglenn

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Day 3 - Thanks Collin and Katie - really useful insight into ranges and i will certainly look into Equilab.
I have often paid to get information to get a players range - it has proven to be a useful tool if i am at a table that i feel is profitable but there is one or 2 players of whom there appears no pattern or tell.
 
duderino89

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Allrighty just finished Part 3 - and as allways the video was helpful to remind me of the basics. Thinking in ranges for me is kinda easy - my only issue is determining if a player is playing a reasonable range or is just goofing around - sometimes you just see the most ridicolous hands - and that allways keeps me thinking if i should put an opponent on a specific range (especially in micro-low buyins) cause most of the times you'd be surprised that most players don't think in ranges themselves.
For me it sometimes feels like i have top pair i bet - even though there is a 4 liner to a straight and 4 from one suite. I've had plente of hands where i bluffcatch and just can't even figure out what my opponent was thinking - nor can i put him on an actual range on future hands because of some plays he did in the past.
So my real question is: Do you think that when playing microstakes you should adapt thinking in ranges or just try to figure out who's goofing around or who's playing seriously?
 
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Marcos1315

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Allrighty just finished Part 3 - and as allways the video was helpful to remind me of the basics. Thinking in ranges for me is kinda easy - my only issue is determining if a player is playing a reasonable range or is just goofing around - sometimes you just see the most ridicolous hands - and that allways keeps me thinking if i should put an opponent on a specific range (especially in micro-low buyins) cause most of the times you'd be surprised that most players don't think in ranges themselves.
For me it sometimes feels like i have top pair i bet - even though there is a 4 liner to a straight and 4 from one suite. I've had plente of hands where i bluffcatch and just can't even figure out what my opponent was thinking - nor can i put him on an actual range on future hands because of some plays he did in the past.
So my real question is: Do you think that when playing microstakes you should adapt thinking in ranges or just try to figure out who's goofing around or who's playing seriously?



I have the same problem. I remember seeing a player raise from UTG +1 and call all-in with 93s preflop. I mean, it doesn't make sense. You cannot bluff with a call. And you are not supposed to win with 93.
What I try to do (until the late registration ends) is play tight, reduce the number of bluffs, and slow play more often.
 
Atararo14

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3rd lesson completed, it's primordial for acquire a solid base.

I put the hijack on QQ+ and AK

The widest range : TT+ AT+ KQs

The tightest range : KK+ AK
 
Rob Hobson

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Most of the players mistakes is the lack of thinking in ranges, I believe.
 
barbados

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An interesting situation with ranges. It seems to allow you to make a more accurate decision for success. However, it reminds me of probability theory from higher mathematics at the university. I'll try to practice today's games.
 
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ppartizan2

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So are ranges something like what hand you should fold,call,check or 3 bet on which position?
 
Lenka65

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poker

I think that range thinking, poker math, and all that stuff is all bullshit. You always need to be as much as possible in a specific game at a specific table, with specific players and act on specific circumstances.
 
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maorodman

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Great Lesson, as always!!

I prefer to watch the Villains act (some minutes), before I begin.

Doing that, I can "catch" who plays tight, looses, etc.
 
BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch

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Day 3: Thinking In Ranges

Wow, Its been like a year since anyone posted lol.

The major thing that Collin is emphasizing in this vid is a big step for a lot of folks and that's moving away from just thinking about what you're holding and actually trying to put folks on a range or guesstimate of what others are holding. If you pay attention to Collins commentary in every example, its trying to put folks on a hand so you can know where you are in a hand, get information why they're in the hand and what they're playing so you have an idea of what to expect in future hands.

Regardless of the outcome, I like listening to the thought process of these hands, especially with the AK example. Why would they call a raise with 8x? Unless they don't know starting hands. There aren't a lot of hands that folks would call with an 8 so we can get rid of that idea. Collin shows you a systematic way to know where you are in a hand. Is it 100% on? Of course not but its a better way to play than just playing your hand and ignore the info your opponents are giving you during the hands.

Even when you're not in a hand, you should be paying attention and trying to figure folks range and putting that info in the notes or using the color codes online to classify folks for future reference so you can have an idea of their range for when you do end up in a hand with them.

I liked that the ebook addressed the issue that some folks going over this material that play freerolls/ stuff with low buyins might say that their opponents don't know starting hands and will flip up any two cards. All I could add to this is this process is essential in becoming a better player regardless of who you're playing.

Another episode down. FORWARD!!!!!!
 
Fahrenheit451

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Very simple and understandable explanation on starting with ranges. Just what I was looking for. Pity that I found this course two years later than other folks.

My question is: when I put villain on a range, how do I determine my equity?
 
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Marcos1315

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Very simple and understandable explanation on starting with ranges. Just what I was looking for. Pity that I found this course two years later than other folks.

My question is: when I put villain on a range, how do I determine my equity?



One possibility is to take this table (https://www.cardschat.com/poker-equity.php) and do some math.
Break the opponent's range into these categories (overpair, two lowest cards, highest dominant card, etc.) and do some approximation. For example: I have 70% equity against half of his range and 50% equity against the other half, so my equity against that range is something like 60%.

It's not good. I don't use (I'm terrible at dealing with ranges - I need to start thinking about ranges more systematically), but it's a possibility.
 
Fahrenheit451

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One possibility is to take this table (https://www.cardschat.com/poker-equity.php) and do some math.
Break the opponent's range into these categories (overpair, two lowest cards, highest dominant card, etc.) and do some approximation. For example: I have 70% equity against half of his range and 50% equity against the other half, so my equity against that range is something like 60%.

It's not good. I don't use (I'm terrible at dealing with ranges - I need to start thinking about ranges more systematically), but it's a possibility.


OMG, it takes me 5minutes to put him on range, I don't even know how much more to calculate equity :confused:.
But if there is a routine - it can be mastered :rolleyes:
 
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pockerman

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I think it makes sense to write how much I like the course, and how much new things open up for new players thanks to it.


I think that every player intuitively tries to put the opponent's range. But thanks to the explanation and some indications, it is possible to move from the intuitive level to the logical level, which in principle increases the chances and improves the game.

Thanks for the course.


Then there will be more, I'm sure of that
 
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pockerman

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Very simple and understandable explanation on starting with ranges. Just what I was looking for. Pity that I found this course two years later than other folks.


I've proved to be more successful! I just started playing poker and then I found this course!!!!!
 
mariussica88

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Finished day 3...27 to go

This lesson is really interesting because i really believe that my thinking should be more like this. I often don't know and not think in ranges.....I see that there is an A on the board or some suited cards and i immediately put my opponent on the very best hand possible and think that i am beat. I need to improve my thinking at the tables and think more in ranges.
 
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Marcos1315

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This lesson is really interesting because i really believe that my thinking should be more like this. I often don't know and not think in ranges.....I see that there is an A on the board or some suited cards and i immediately put my opponent on the very best hand possible and think that i am beat. I need to improve my thinking at the tables and think more in ranges.



Yes. I do that sometimes. I think it's normal. This happens a lot when we start thinking during the flop rather than preflop. And when the opponent is the aggressor. We think like this: "look, he/she raised preflop, the board is very strong and he/she keeps betting, so he/she might have something."

Try checking poker equilab (see the number of combos for each hand), the probability of someone getting those premium combos, start thinking preflop and review some hands. Sometimes we think people are going to play only very strong hands, but they play a lot of hands, whatever the level. Beginners play a lot of hands out of curiosity and professionals because they can profit from more hands.
 
Oranaro

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Ranges

I've put him in a range of QQ+ , AKo , AQs. I think it's a mistake as JJ got me bad luck, and not "trusting" this pair, which is just a mistke for not playing enough hands to give a judgement there. still it's on the range of 88+ KK+, it would be more likely to play even TT+ with AQs. So that's a difficulty I have to attribute different types of hands, as connectors, pairs or broadways, to combine them in a range.
 
Whompus

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Most site-legal HUDs shouldn't tell you if it's +EV or -EV to play a hand. But if you knew a hand was -EV to play, then you should fold even getting great pot odds.



What is hud and what is EV
 
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I can see why poker is so popular. Many folks I know are either aggressive or at least have respect for aggressive people. Add in the thinking part, thinking in ranges, and you have a smart and aggressive player. A tough combination.

This was a good lesson, but my head is still spinning.
 
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