Thinking in Ranges (Day 3 Course Discussion)

Eduard0Felipe

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Very good lesson on the ranges Day 3.
For me, the villain's rank is extremely tight, especially knowing that there is a raise in the hand, a bet of 3 from a player like Eloy with 79 BB and the villain goes all in. Without a doubt this bad boy doesn't want to steal the blind, this villain is wearing all his pointy boots to hunt down Eloy.
For me, the villain's rank is in KK AA AKs of those 3 variants doesn't work out for me.
If it were a bluff of the villain, it could be considered a 4bet, but such a brutal allin tells me that the villain comes with very bad intentions.
And Eloy calling that minimum allin QQ+ AQs AKs AKo.
Excuse me, I hope to make myself understood, because I have to translate the book and try to translate it into the video, but I understand the situation. It really is a very interesting topic.
Let's go for lesson 4
Regards Collin, Katie and Debi
I understand you, I translate the book too, watch it on Youtube, there you will be able to choose any subtitle.

3/30.
 
Joseph Nobbs

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Range is important especially if you're playing the high quality player and that player is got a tight range and he's pretty cool all the way through like not calling every hand and folding etc. Because when it comes down to it, if he's not, u need to make sure that your range is good to win very inspirational and very good information 5*
 
houcineben10

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Sorry to bother you but I think there is a little mistake in the pdf file, in day 2 (the benefits of aggression you said that checking is a neutral action)
Then further in day 3 (thinking in range) you said villain check and it’s a passive action what is the correcte way of thinking ?
Here is a picture that show the confusion,
 

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jonasz warzecha

jonasz warzecha

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Kk+
AQs+

Still thinking what he has and waiting for showdown😂
 
CollYan

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It's a difficult and important lesson, and I think we need to learn it several times.
 
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In the case of class 3, I wouldn't call the all-in because the aggressor's range can be very strong compared to mine. I would only pay if it was at the end of the tournament and with a low stack.
There's no need to commit all the chips when the aggressor is in position. Mainly if he shows himself to be a TAG player during the game.
 
Gdefender

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Hello! I would write this post for those who do not read the tutorial, but look at the comments on the forum. I am only writing the most important thing, which is the lesson from the chapter of the tutorial!

Chapter 3
(Thinking In Ranges)

In my opinion, the essence of the 3rd day video of the poker course is the conscious use of card combinations in specific positions and against certain opponents! So, I think that this is something that every player needs to learn individually, that in a certain type of game you play, depending on the hand and flop, what are the card combinations that you can use consciously, with the most probable chances!
There are tables for this to learn the ranges!


Here is an illustration of this

Jegyzet 2023 03 07 130612
 
Aballinamion

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Today we will discuss Thinking in Ranges.

If you have not yet read Day 3 and watched the video for Day 3 - take a few minutes now to do that and then come back here to discuss it.

Thinking in Ranges

This is one of my favorite chapters in the ebook - and the video is awesome too. Understanding that you don't need to know exactly what your opponent has - but just need a range of hands - takes your game to a new level.

Let's talk about this and don't forget - Katie and Collin are available to answer your questions about thinking in ranges.

b1e1c60ee41bcec4518f7b30da6bf7de.png


9bae48e8b0b6064ee1698bd2e01bd23b.png
Quoting the book, page 13, Chapter: Thinking In ranges:
“The goal of a strong player is to put his opponent on a range of hands instead of just a single holding.”

This is very important to all of poker players, not to try to emulate Daniel Negreanu when he says his opponent has AA or KK and he’s right about it. It’s a very abstract thinking and takes time to improve it, to think that our adversary can be holding AA, but also KK, QJs, JTs and 99, just for example.

“The reason why putting opponents on a range of hands is so important is because their actions will almost always be consistent with multiple holdings. So instead of getting caught up in
just one hand your opponent might have, the best way to think is in terms of your opponent’s potential range of different holdings.”

e.g, A very tight player (NIT) open from UTG and we are sitting in the BTN and we do 3-bet it. Everyone folds and UTG player makes a 4-bet: when he opened from UTG first he could have many hands such as KJs+ ATs+ and 77+, but after we/BTN/Hero 3-bets and villain comes with a 4-bet (assuming all players have deep stacks), we assume that villain isn’t doing it with hands like 99 or KQs, because his table image and HUD data/statistics show us that this player 4-bets nearly 3% of his range of hands, so we put it in his 4-bet range KK+ and AQs+ only as value hands.
More experienced tight players will 4-bet with strong values and also with a couple of strong semi-bluffs such as ATs and AJs and A2s-A5s, but this is not the case of the NIT of our sample examples: this NIT is 4-betting massively for value and we are going to fold the vast majority of our range in this case, and call it or 5-bet it/Push only with KK+ and AKs, for instance.
To think about ranges instead of hands is the first step we must make in order to climb the ladder of GTO and balanced ranges. Also, the notions of combos are paramount to fully comprehend how ranges can vary depending on our opponents abilities.
Thanks for providing such good insights with this poker course, I hope I haven’t made any blunder with my interpretations and analyses.
 
Nandabio81

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it is very important to observe and know the opponent and try to guess the cards he has in his hand.
 
ENRIQUE23977

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I'm really fascinated by this lesson on ranges, because the course creators say that it differentiates winning players from losing players.

Reading ranges reminds me of David Sklansky and his fundamental poker theorem from his book The Theory of Poker which goes like this:
"Whenever a player plays differently than they would have if they knew their opponent's cards, their opponent gains advantage; whenever a player makes the same move they would have if they knew their opponent's cards, they gain advantage."

This is nothing more and nothing less than thinking about the rival's ranges to obtain advantages and win in the long run.

Finally, I think that in the example of the video, the 4bet calling range has to be quite tight in my opinion, QQ+, AKs, AKo.
:sneaky:
 
jonaselloco

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This subject maybe is where i fail the most. Focus is needed and i dont have it. I just play doing other stuffs not paying attention in the enemies hands.
Hello brother

I'm sorry to tell you, but that is a very serious mistake.

Someone who plays Omaha regularly tells you, and in Omaha it's much more difficult than Hold em for me, if you don't have a minimal chance of knowing what cards your opponent can have, what cards you can block and so on, it's really very difficult play it.

A big hug, and I hope you can improve this aspect. I have faith in you that you will!!!:giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle::giggle:
 
Tipaca

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Range work only vs players who know basis of poker, on micro limit today it's really impossible to do this.... Only think about if the oponent players like his and or not that's all.
On higher limit we can start thinking of this process of range, but most of peoples who start playing poker think to much at start about to many thing vs players who don't know poker and they lose their motivation vs fish players.
 
pankoffff

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I watched the video of the third day and obtained a lot of interesting and useful information!
 
Gh0stL

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My answer to the quiz:
Eloy ranges: TT+, AK, AQs, AJs.
Tightest range: QQ+
Wides range: AT+, 99+

Nice course.
 
MrFixxiT

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I am going through the course and chapter 3 in particular right now.

I have a question about the range notation in the book (pdf).
The range: AJ+, ATs+, KQo, QJs+, 77+
First I want to point out that it seems that KQo is missing in the example.

Also I am not sure what QJs+ exactly mean. There seems different explanations about the +.
Some say that QJs+ would mean: QJs, KQs, AKs because QJs is connected, so you have all suited connecters from QJ and higher.
Then with gaps (like KJs+) would mean only the second card goes up (like KJs, KQs in my example)

Some say that the +-sign only means the second card and higher: So QJs+ would mean just QJs+ (which would be silly to put a +-sign there)


In your example in the book, it looks like QJs+ means: QJs, KJs, KQs.
If this really is what you mean, what does 75s+ mean?

I have signed up for FreeBetRange just to test some of this. When I import the above range (AJ+, ATs+, KQo, QJs+, 77+). I tried to import it as different formats, but it never computes to how you interpret it. AJ+ never gets recognized. QJs+ is only QJs.

It is all jsut very confusing if everyone means something different with these notations.
 
MrFixxiT

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A little later in the pdf you write "At the flop, his range is still almost as wide when he checks since that passive action also gives us very little information."

I think I just learned in chapter 2 that checking is a neutral action, not passive.

I could see that this would be accepted as passive after the completion (small call) pre-flop.

So is this considered a neutral or a passive action?
 
MrFixxiT

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I am going through the course and chapter 3 in particular right now.

I have a question about the range notation in the book (pdf).
The range: AJ+, ATs+, KQo, QJs+, 77+
First I want to point out that it seems that KQo is missing in the example.

Also I am not sure what QJs+ exactly mean. There seems different explanations about the +.
Some say that QJs+ would mean: QJs, KQs, AKs because QJs is connected, so you have all suited connecters from QJ and higher.
Then with gaps (like KJs+) would mean only the second card goes up (like KJs, KQs in my example)

Some say that the +-sign only means the second card and higher: So QJs+ would mean just QJs+ (which would be silly to put a +-sign there)


In your example in the book, it looks like QJs+ means: QJs, KJs, KQs.
If this really is what you mean, what does 75s+ mean?

I have signed up for FreeBetRange just to test some of this. When I import the above range (AJ+, ATs+, KQo, QJs+, 77+). I tried to import it as different formats, but it never computes to how you interpret it. AJ+ never gets recognized. QJs+ is only QJs.

It is all jsut very confusing if everyone means something different with these notations.
I think I understand what you guys mean.

Funny thing is that in Day 6 in the video Katie has an example that is more like the more agreed on way (imho) to write them. (The pdf again bundles more hands into a singe 2 cards with a + for brevity I guess)
So I think I answered my own question already. :)
 
Anamembu

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Day 3 completed, it's interesting how ranges are key to making strategic decisions. They help evaluate the strength of hands and determine when to bet, raise, or fold. They are essential for making informed decisions in every hand.
 
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Nowadays, the range has varied a lot, something little or not at all? I have doubts because I have seen very different rank tables and support software such as Gto Wisard sometimes tell me different things than usual in postflod betting
 
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