Survival Tournament - would you fold KK?

[TravelerLloyd]

I have KK.

I can tell you right now I am either raising or going all in with KK, that's not even a thought for me. No way I am laying it down, I don't care what type of tournament or where I am at chip wise, that's going in.

Final Table - need to make 6th to advance, 7 players are remaining, I'm 3rd in chips, but the stacks are all very close except for the chip leader who as 5x the amount of chips as me.

UTG+1 is the short stack and goes all-in.
Folds around to me on the BTN, I have KK.
SB has me covered and has demonstrated a willingness to call all-ins.
BB has me covered and is very aggressive and has been going all-in frequently.

This is a SURVIVAL tournament - if I call and lose I will be the short stack with 6 big blinds. There are also 2 loose players to act behind me. Should I fold KK here?

 

[roger perkins]

i dont think half of these people understand that 6th place is the same as 1st, yes if im looking at busting out or doubling up in situation where the payday is different i would shove kk all day but he said this is a survival tournament. i think this is a very easy fold with the knowledge the 2 guys behind you are aggressive and you are not short stacked. i often go by the philosophy of let the other guy make the mistake in this situation.

 

[tayday79]

Final Table - need to make 6th to advance, 7 players are remaining, I'm 3rd in chips, but the stacks are all very close except for the chip leader who as 5x the amount of chips as me.

UTG+1 is the short stack and goes all-in.
Folds around to me on the BTN, I have KK.
SB has me covered and has demonstrated a willingness to call all-ins.
BB has me covered and is very aggressive and has been going all-in frequently.

This is a SURVIVAL tournament - if I call and lose I will be the short stack with 6 big blinds. There are also 2 loose players to act behind me. Should I fold KK here?

the only way i would fold kk is if an ace hit the board.

 

[Queev14]

I wouldnt fold this. If you wanna win this tournament you should take the chance to stack you up.

 

[belizebum]

I love the opinions. Too fold or not. It is a hard position to be in. That damn bubble. Most pros would say fold. Even when you watch live games on tv. Let the short stack get bumped out by someone else, especially if you have loose players left to act. I would probably fold. Sometimes I might shove, depending on my mood and how much money is involved. Really is your choice at the time. If you shove and lose, you will be kicking yourself. If you shove and win...woohoo. If you fold and see that you would have won, well that is a whole other feeling. My question is what did you do?

 

[SrWesleiNF]

I to preserve the tournament would not pay, because I have chips to support a few more rounds and a player in all in for several players with more chips that I can cover and eliminate.

 

[Luvepoker]

To be honest, it would depend on my read of the table and the player who just pushed all in but unless I was 100% sure someone else was going to call I would call it here. Yes we could be crippled if we loose but at this point of the event we could just as easily bubble out if we dont win another hand.

 

[redboy23]

I once witnessed a pokerstars pro fold AA instantly during bubble play. I was speechless for days!

In Pokerschool, it is advised that you try to steal plenty dead chips and play your game as many persons are super tight during this time.

If I am in the world series of poker, I will probably fold KK or even AA since the risk versus reward is somewhat different. If I am playing the Sunday million or SCOOP tourney, I may do the same - fold KK or AA in a heartbeat.

However, other online tournaments i will adopt the nothing ventured, nothing gained attitude!

Shove is my vote and let lady luck do her thing!

 

[marcumx]

i dont think it matters, i've played KK every way possible and some donk always call with a marginal hand and gets lucky 80% of the time. i fold when there's more than one person all in, post flop if there's an ace on the flop. stack size is also a variable if you're short the only thing to do is push and hope for the best

 

[foran]

If you have already won the quota do not play

 

[scubed]

My question is what did you do?

I folded AND I made the money.

I only folded because this was a survival tournament. Top 6 get the SAME EXACT prize. There was no good reason to take a risk, so I did not.

 

[63burner]

Suurvival is the only goal, fold..

From what you said, its a survival tourney, no mention of money prizes, sort of like ACR venom qualifying tournaments, where the only goal is ITT(Into The Ticket). You made the right move by folding. You fold, survive and get to play in the tourney you qualified for.

 

[SubZero111]

I just have a hard time folding KK. But it had not been a successful holding for me lately. It has been losing half the time. I've been up against so many fish calling with A5 A2 and the make it. I'm starting to think I should fold it more often

 

[TravelerLloyd]

I agree, it does seem like it get called by some very weak hands yet those loose guys end up beating us.

I just have a hard time folding KK. But it had not been a successful holding for me lately. It has been losing half the time. I've been up against so many fish calling with A5 A2 and the make it. I'm starting to think I should fold it more often

 

[Jilty]

The stats are probably you'd win but, if you lose and then get 9s next hand and get taken out by an over or two you've lost so the most GTO play is definitely fold and let someone else battle. 5x chip leader has a few burns in there and the he's probably like to raise on their bb and if it's a ticket the prize then you other guys will likely fold.

The most GTO play is probably fold.

 

[TravelerLloyd]

I am not that poker smart, but what is GTO play?

The stats
are probably you'd win but, if you lose and then get 9s next hand and get taken out by an over or two you've lost so the most GTO play is definitely fold and let someone else battle. 5x chip leader has a few burns in there and the he's probably like to raise on their bb and if it's a ticket the prize then you other guys will likely fold.

The most GTO play is probably fold.

 

[Jammen]

This is definitely a fold because you are not trying to come in first place. 1-6 move on and 7th gets nothing. The 2 blinds are going to call with any Ace or maybe worse by the sound of it. Even if they fold the short stack stays that way, short. If you were last to act then it’s a no brainer call. Interesting spot though I would think most of us call or push, this seems easy when we are not in the position ourselves.

 

[Jammen]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. With the blinds being what they usually are at this stage of a tourney & with the stacks being close, this has to be a factor. There is no guaranteed winner pre flop & being overly cautious at this stage can cost you very quickly. In the final analysis, if you are afraid to lose probably shouldn't be playing.

Wrong! You can absolutely be scared even with Kong’s. It’s a satellite tourney. You don’t get more for finishing 1st.

 

[onlynuts19]

I know he has AA buy damn it. I`ll play

 

[hachile1]

Final Table - need to make 6th to advance, 7 players are remaining, I'm 3rd in chips, but the stacks are all very close except for the chip leader who as 5x the amount of chips as me.

UTG+1 is the short stack and goes all-in.
Folds around to me on the BTN, I have KK.
SB has me covered and has demonstrated a willingness to call all-ins.
BB has me covered and is very aggressive and has been going all-in frequently.

This is a SURVIVAL tournament - if I call and lose I will be the short stack with 6 big blinds. There are also 2 loose players to act behind me. Should I fold KK here?

in general we should follow with KK but there are some exceptions or we have to fold even with AA depending on the position in the tournament especially the number of opponents who follow an all in..but if we are faced with an opponent who is aggressive and who often sends all in this case you have to take advantage of your KK hand and follow it otherwise I personally AA folded when more than three players have sent all in and luckily for me because if I followed them an opponent having 99 had his 9 on the flop and he would have excluded me from the tournament knowing that I was very near the payment then conclusion I would say the positioning is the main reason to decide to follow or not I think

 

[dedok0525]

It is difficult to throw. Often survival tournaments playing tight in the first places falling down during the later stages. So I shove all playing this hand.

 

[Jammen]

It is difficult to throw. Often survival tournaments playing tight in the first places falling down during the later stages. So I shove all playing this hand.

If there are 20 players left and we are in a middle position 10-12 place and 6 get paid you are absolutely right but when 7 left and the short player pushed and you have 2 players behind that have shown a willingness to call those shorter stacks. I think this is a perfectly good place to fold (never easy to fold K’s) but you don’t need to finish 1st just not 7th.

 

[kowrip]

There is a good possibility the UTG+1 has AA. He had been VERY VERY patient, blinded off by folding in the last 3-4 orbits waiting for the all-in opportunity. I am positive he is VERY strong - range is QQ+, AQ+.

The second problem is the BB who had demonstrated a willingness to shove all-in over the top - meaning, he is absolutely capable of calling my shove because he has more chips than both of us and would have 2 shots to knock out an opponent (UTG+1 and myself) to get to the final 6.

This is a clear shove in normal circumstances; however, I'm not sure what the correct action in a survival tournament given there is a high probability (I am currently 3rd in chips) that I will make the final 6 if I make the very conservative fold.

A few things here ...

Calling 2 all-ins is a lot different than calling 1. The BB would have to be extremely strong here to call your shove. Also, you mentioned that the chip stacks were all pretty close except for the chip leader. If that's the case, then I'm not so sure of your high probability of surviving if you fold this hand. I'm not sure that I would be able to lay this down here. I'd probably shove here.

 

[Longey]

i would deffinetly fold here, the prizes for winning the pot is too low. you are in the 3th place already, and gets the same prize. why risk loosing? (1-6th gets the same prizes so no need to get more chips)

 

[Mc_FGS]

i'm fold