Survival Tournament - would you fold KK?

[Bluffzone68]

Hi
The greatness of CC community, pull out a post from August 2018 and make a comment.

And the beauty of the thread is its always relevant.

Folding a KK on the bubble:-

According to the tournanent being played, players 1-6 will be 1st place.
They all qualify to next tourney.

In that case why not fold and wait rather than risk all in and maybe lose out.

So its a fold for me in this situation.

If it was another tourney where 1st place winner wins more than 2nd and soforth, than call all in with KK anytime.

My opinion
Thanks

 

[pokerpie]

It's one of those tough spots that there might not be a right or wrong call, depends mostly on your read of the two guys left behind you. Personally I would find it hard to lay down kings in that spot so would not put it against you for putting all the chips in. Playing devils advocate, if it is a survival tourney and you can guarantee yourself more money by folding, would not be a bad play to lay the hand down either.

 

[skeptix]

Getting it in here is fine. Calling to bring in the blinds is also fine. I probably get it in because you puke if the big stack jams on your call.

 

[MadDeVille]

Final Table - need to make 6th to advance, 7 players are remaining, I'm 3rd in chips, but the stacks are all very close except for the chip leader who as 5x the amount of chips as me.

UTG+1 is the short stack and goes all-in.
Folds around to me on the BTN, I have KK.
SB has me covered and has demonstrated a willingness to call all-ins.
BB has me covered and is very aggressive and has been going all-in frequently.

This is a SURVIVAL tournament - if I call and lose I will be the short stack with 6 big blinds. There are also 2 loose players to act behind me. Should I fold KK here?

If you have one ladder to money and outstack UTG+1 it's a very easy all in. I could risk hitting into AA

 

[AlexBlefer]

you are short, what kind of cards u will wait for call or push? never fold..

 

[Yermek]

Final Table - need to make 6th to advance, 7 players are remaining, I'm 3rd in chips, but the stacks are all very close except for the chip leader who as 5x the amount of chips as me.

UTG+1 is the short stack and goes all-in.
Folds around to me on the BTN, I have KK.
SB has me covered and has demonstrated a willingness to call all-ins.
BB has me covered and is very aggressive and has been going all-in frequently.

This is a SURVIVAL tournament - if I call and lose I will be the short stack with 6 big blinds. There are also 2 loose players to act behind me. Should I fold KK here?

The short stack will go all-in. KK good cards to increase the stack. I would definitely call

 

[djasset]

NO

NO

 

[mulliongc]

I wish I knew more about UG+1, i.e., is he/she "short stacked" with less than 10 BB? If so, the probability of he/she holding AA is reduced, especially if short stacked is somewhere around 4 or 5 BB. I'm not good enough to muck KK most of the time anyway. Give me KK on the button with loose players in the SB and BB, I'm going to take my shot right then and there.

 

[scubed]

I just don't understand all the comments about automatic call or shove. Clearly survival is the number one factor. You're 3rd in chips and there is every possibility the two loose cannons will call and take out UTG+1 which would end the tournament and make you a winner. So, it's a simple no-brainer fold.

These were my exact thoughts at the time.

This "survival" scenario (where we are sure we can fold to a seat) and a pre-flop scenario where I am 99% sure Villain has Aces (probably a 4 or 5 bet type hand from a tight player) are 2 clear cut decisions where I think folding KK preflop is indeed an option.

Spoiler

I made the decision to fold the KK. A few hands later there were 2 all-ins and the loose big stack called. I survived as 3rd in chips and won one of the 6 satellite seats!

 

[magik9118]

Yes i Call it, and on the flop is KK5!��easy keasy...

 

[mrbond8844]

i would play those kings to the end before you get caught with something else

 

[Play_Analyst]

Final Table - need to make 6th to advance, 7 players are remaining, I'm 3rd in chips, but the stacks are all very close except for the chip leader who as 5x the amount of chips as me.

UTG+1 is the short stack and goes all-in.
Folds around to me on the BTN, I have KK.
SB has me covered and has demonstrated a willingness to call all-ins.
BB has me covered and is very aggressive and has been going all-in frequently.


This is a SURVIVAL tournament - if I call and lose I will be the short stack with 6 big blinds. There are also 2 loose players to act behind me. Should I fold KK here?

The way I see it you're going to start folding KK to a shove from the short stack o the bubble it's time to stop playing poker. Ignore the fact that the BB is hyper aggressive and welcome it.

The ss could be shoving with anything just to grab the blinds (it's amazing how many players do not even think about the aggressive player to their left o right.) I wouldn't be surprised if they turn over an ace but the way I see it this is just the opportunity you've been looking for to double up at the very least.

I've done the sit and wait thing and to be honest, it's worse than taking fate in your own hands.

 

[roman5551993]

I would not have dropped it is very difficult.

 

[Poker_Mike]

I like Protential's answer the best.

In other words...in a survival tournament you don't need to be THE big stack - it doesn't pay any more money than 6th place.

But another post brought up the point....
If you have the shove covered....
And the loose BB re-shoves and wins the hand to knock out 2 players in the same hand....you will be in the money as 6th place because you had more chips than the original shove.

If the short stack wins the hand then you and the BB are dessimated and you have some work to do.

Worst case for you would be tht the shortstack wins the main pot AND the BB wins the side pot (if he had you covered) and now you are out in 7th.

Good luck !

 

[Lena M]

Hello.
No. In no case. With such a strong card I will go all-in. If I lost, I would clearly understand that I was not lucky.

 

[ScottieDuncan]

Fold and play another hand

 

[VictorOd]

It's a very close decision but in this particular situation call is better IMHO because the opponent most likely has a lower pair or Ax so you are a favorite with 70-80% chances and still few blinds remains if you lose a hand.

 

[malakata19]

In that situation I play all in, just because with only 7 players left and one more to get the prices or places to pay many of those think in the posibility to stay with a short stack and eventually be eliminated with any opponent who can pay you. Is a very strong hand to play is those situations. Good luck in the tables !!!

 

[lousypanda]

I fold K’s,Q’s, J’s often if people have tightened up near the money and suddenly get aggressive or shove. They’ll be other opportunities (usually).

 

[adueno81]

probably

I just lost another tournament today. I had KK and I lost to Q9. I don't know why he called a 30,000 chip bet but he ended up getting 2 more queens on the flop.

 

[onlynuts19]

Never folded KK pre-flop. I can't swear))

 

[Goonsquad1217]

Depends on how likely I think someone is going to be playing AA. With only one (short) player already in the pot and two (only) possibles to follow, I'm always going to shove this hand UNLESS I think it's pretty likely that UTG+1 has aces (I've seen that happen often enough).

These satellites have a strange way of flipping around completely when you take the 'safe' road.

I agree. Calling is best Bet.

 

[Erpherk]

These spots are difficult in my experience... the hand you describe i think i call. The short stack jammed ahead and 2 crazy players are left to act behind.. lets say 1 is calling for sure.. that's 2 hands that have a chance to eliminate short stack and get you the seat.. Shorty jammed because he is running out of options and is desperate so i think calling is good here.

 

[gon4iypes]

oh boy just imagine you fold and the flop comes down and he has the AA but you would have flopped a set......

 

[CallmeFloppy]

If this were a regular tournament I would call without much thought.

Since its a survivor I am more torn.

We need one player to go out and the tournament is over. No extra points for finishing first because top 6 all get the same anyway.

Based on the all in player's play as described above, I am guessing they have either AA, QQ or AKs. I guess KK would even be a long shot possibility.

So now I am focused on the opponents to act behind me. If I am sure the SB is going to call, great, I could fold and let him knock the all in out. If the SB loses and is not the chip leader, then they will be super short and forced to take an action due to the BBs aggressiveness and has the poor position of having to act before them most hands.

The other option is do I think the SB will call if I go all in. I am likely well ahead of anything in the SBs range and can use that as a safety net should the UTG+1 have the aces or is ahead after the flop.

So I think in this situation I will go all in if I think the SB will call my all in, and fold if I think the SB would fold my all in, and just let the SB either take them out or put himself in a rough spot.