$1 NLHE STT: 58off in the BB

[the lab man]

ok, my last post in this thread unless people wanna continue????
I call to see a flop, i dont care whether I have equity, or pot odds, or if its a sunny day and why not? I call, and I call this every time.
I play limit, exclusiviely(at ring) and call with 32os if Im getting a good price for my hand. f**k it, I call with 72os if the odds are good enough. and why? cause if its a low flop, then the guy playing AK/AQ/AJ etc misses, and I hit. he bets, I raise, he folds/calls and Im ahead. another low card on the turn, I bet, he folds/calls, and Ive got him. river i bet, hes sat there with Ace high, Ive got 2 pairs with my 72os.
my style is loose, but its a winning style.
end of hijack.

Then please KD don't offer advice on the OP's of a SnG tourney which has got nothing to do with your Limit Cash games. none of what you said here, translates to a 9 man SnG game.
I do believe you can realize the mentality of the different games

 

[Blobweird123]

ffs this is why people get tilted with you, then you have bitch and say you are done with CC. your stats from a non meaningful sample dont matter, stats from different stakes dont matter, what you do and choose to do doesnt matter. its a losing play, it has been shown conclusively by maths, which is fundamental and cannot be proven wrong.

Not to pick sides, but well im picking sides. This ^ all day every day. If its mathematically -ev in the long term then its a fold. Done deal. Its a fold. All day, every day. Even in cash, still a snap fold. Unless you have some sick reads on villain and know how to work the hand, which most times will still be -ev!

 

[KerouacsDog]

ffs this is why people get tilted with you, then you have bitch and say you are done with CC. your stats from a non meaningful sample dont matter, stats from different stakes dont matter, what you do and choose to do doesnt matter. its a losing play, it has been shown conclusively by maths, which is fundamental and cannot be proven wrong.

and I get tilted by people who constantly berate me. all i did in this thread was say I call with pot odds. then the attacks came, slowly and quietly at first, then lately more often, and sometimes brutal. I tilt people? so what. People tilt me? well, f*ck them, thats all I will say. stats do matter, long term.

Then please KD don't offer advice on the OP's of a SnG tourney which has got nothing to do with your Limit Cash games. none of what you said here, translates to a 9 man SnG game.
I do believe you can realize the mentality of the different games

I play limit cash, and knockout sngs as well as mtts. this play I will use in a sng if i was in the exact same situation.

Not to pick sides, but well im picking sides. This ^ all day every day. If its mathematically -ev in the long term then its a fold. Done deal. Its a fold. All day, every day. Even in cash, still a snap fold. Unless you have some sick reads on villain and know how to work the hand, which most times will still be -ev!

I may get a read on villain, I may not, but I definitely know how to work 58os postflop.

 

[KerouacsDog]

oh, go ask durr/ivey/hansen/brunson/ et all if they call here?

 

[duggs]

they would tell you no, or maybe laugh at you

 

[KerouacsDog]

I'll ask Phil and Elky when I next talk to them on FB(serious), hey even Doyle's daughter, Pamela.
I would say durr and hansen would play the hand, thats their style, loose preflop.
so no duggs, they wouldnt laugh at me, they'd hear my point, and then come back with criticism/support in a kind manner.
Oh how I wish the same would happen at CC when someone makes an oddball/left-field play in poker, like I often do.

 

[Blobweird123]

I'll ask Phil and Elky when I next talk to them on FB(serious), hey even Doyle's daughter, Pamela.
I would say durr and hansen would play the hand, thats their style, loose preflop.
so no duggs, they wouldnt laugh at me, they'd hear my point, and then come back with criticism/support in a kind manner.
Oh how I wish the same would happen at CC when someone makes an oddball/left-field play in poker, like I often do.

That's irrelevant. Those guys have built such an impressive table image that they can play ATC and profit. We don't have a table image vs a bunch of fish at a $1 sng. Quite the opposite, they could care less about our image and they will simply play their hands.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

Also, they would fold, I guarantee that, so it's not really relevant.

 

[Blobweird123]

Also, they would fold, I guarantee that, so it's not really relevant.

Well, ofc that too lol

 

[dmorris68]

KD, buddy... please listen. Nobody is trying to attack you personally. This is a poker forum, meaning it's a place where people will (a) debate strategy, and (b) call you out because it's the internet. If that bothers you or gets under your skin, then why are you here?

There are a lot of borderline situations in poker where a strategy debate can really go either way. There's so many variables with the situation and players involved that there can really be no absolute right move. But there are almost always some very wrong moves.

In this situation for sure, and almost all situations I can think of, this was a wrong move.

You shouldn't take it personally or as an attack when people disagree with you. When SO MANY people disagree with you, particularly ones who frankly have more results to show than you, how can you insist you're the one who's right? And how can you expect those people not to then react when you can't logically backup your argument? You were provided numerous explanations with solid arguments including math to back them up. You continue to retort with "I call all day" and "pot odds" as if that's some kind of answer or justification.

Let's point out just a few glaring things you've outright stated or implied in this discussion:

1. SPR, FE, and EV mean nothing, it's a pure pot odds decision
2. This is a call with 6.5bb behind
3. This is a call with a raiser and a caller in front of me when I have virtually zero fold equity
4. I wait until 5bb before push/fold mode
5. I do this in limit ring so it should also apply to a NL SNG (not even addressing the point that it's probably bad in limit ring as well)
6. Look at my last 120 days of a handful of games at the micros/freerolls (going by Jonny's earlier posts, I'm not going to root through the sites myself so please elaborate on where he's wrong).
7. I challenge people to show better results before I will listen to them
8. All the pros I mentioned would support my opinion

I mean, really? There's just so much wrong with any one of those, let alone all of them.

Seriously man, play your own game but it might be better if you admit when you're wrong. It could do a world of good for your game.

 

[KerouacsDog]

That's irrelevant. Those guys have built such an impressive table image that they can play ATC and profit. We don't have a table image vs a bunch of fish at a $1 sng. Quite the opposite, they could care less about our image and they will simply play their hands.

ok, but what if I had built an impressive table image previous to this hand, I could call, right?

Also, they would fold, I guarantee that, so it's not really relevant.

would you guarantee it with all your BR riding on the result? And if one of those 4 said call, you'd lose your money? no, thought not.

KD, buddy... please listen. Nobody is trying to attack you personally. This is a poker forum, meaning it's a place where people will (a) debate strategy, and (b) call you out because it's the internet. If that bothers you or gets under your skin, then why are you here?

There are a lot of borderline situations in poker where a strategy debate can really go either way. There's so many variables with the situation and players involved that there can really be no absolute right move. But there are almost always some very wrong moves.

In this situation for sure, and almost all situations I can think of, this was a wrong move.

You shouldn't take it personally or as an attack when people disagree with you. When SO MANY people disagree with you, particularly ones who frankly have more results to show than you, how can you insist you're the one who's right? And how can you expect those people not to then react when you can't logically backup your argument? You were provided numerous explanations with solid arguments including math to back them up. You continue to retort with "I call all day" and "pot odds" as if that's some kind of answer or justification.

Let's point out just a few glaring things you've outright stated or implied in this discussion:

1. SPR, FE, and EV mean nothing, it's a pure pot odds decision
2. This is a call with 6.5bb behind
3. This is a call with a raiser and a caller in front of me when I have virtually zero fold equity
4. I wait until 5bb before push/fold mode
5. I do this in limit ring so it should also apply to a NL SNG (not even addressing the point that it's probably bad in limit ring as well)
6. Look at my last 120 days of a handful of games at the micros/freerolls (going by Jonny's earlier posts, I'm not going to root through the sites myself so please elaborate on where he's wrong).
7. I challenge people to show better results before I will listen to them
8. All the pros I mentioned would support my opinion

I mean, really? There's just so much wrong with any one of those, let alone all of them.

Seriously man, play your own game but it might be better if you admit when you're wrong. It could do a world of good for your game.

okay DM, buddy, please listen.
Whenever I post my play in HA I get berated, every single time. the flock go, oh no, thats the wrong play, whilst the fence-sitters sit and read and maybe one or two might go, hey, that might work. that makes my day. I dont want the tight/rock/ whatever brigade following me, I want the left-field people to see my point of view, and to understand its my point of view, right or wrong, and maybe try it for themselves.
and the points I mentioned, and you listed. I stand by every one of them. Im stubborn, but only when I percieve myself to be right, which is the case here. you 99% fold if you like, wait for a better spot, me? I'll risk one bb to hit that perfect flop, which the OP did, and won the hand.
I take calculated risks like this all the time, its a $1 sng ffs, I dump 80% of my chips on a first hand just to get my shortstack game together. I play HU for cash/sng just to develop my HU game when I hit the last two in a mtt.
Ive got respect for you, dm, but please dont jump on the bandwagon like all the other rocks/tighties/nits, do some left-field thinking for once in your life.
try it, you might enjoy it. I know I do.
time for bed, me thinks.

 

[Blobweird123]

again, this ^^^

No one is saying you have to agree. If you call all day here, call all day. But don't tell everyone else here they are wrong. Of course that will lead to arguments, and for good reason.

Trying to sway the OP's opinion here would be very unfair to the OP as Dmo piont out its a wrong move in the eyes of 99% here. OP wants to make money too. Don't push him to be a losing player lol

Fold it all day, every day (my opinion)

 

[Blobweird123]

ok, but what if I had built an impressive table image previous to this hand, I could call, right?

No. You would shove if anything. This is 100% shove/fold time. But still, no. Its a fold. Im saying the pros have table image built through years of being in the spotlight and their raises get more respect. In turn, they would respect the raise before them just as much and would fold this hot garbage in a second!

I want the left-field people to see my point of view, and to understand its my point of view, right or wrong, and maybe try it for themselves.
and the points I mentioned, and you listed. I stand by every one of them. Im stubborn, but only when I percieve myself to be right, which is the case here.

Again, this is the problem. You would want to sway a novice's opinion to start making bad plays? That just seems sooo wrong! And now you're taking it from just your opinion to stating you are right. Ofc they are going to attack!

I take calculated risks like this all the time, its a $1 sng ffs

Last but not least...

Where is the calculations? Besides pot-odds? And it doesnt matter if its a $1 sng or a 10k sng. Its prolly the OP using BRM so to him this game means as much as any other game!

/end rant

 

[KerouacsDog]

again, this ^^^

No one is saying you have to agree. If you call all day here, call all day. But don't tell everyone else here they are wrong. Of course that will lead to arguments, and for good reason.

Trying to sway the OP's opinion here would be very unfair to the OP as Dmo piont out its a wrong move in the eyes of 99% here. OP wants to make money too. Don't push him to be a losing player lol

Fold it all day, every day (my opinion)

I stated in my first post in this thread I call. then got berated by the nits etc. I justified to myself, and others why i make that call. It might be a losing play? so what? Its 1bb in a $1sng, lol.
Im learning limit, learning what hands to play, what not to play. premium of course, all PP, suited connectors most of the time, and then I get 58o hands and I think, hell, why not, Ive seen many a 679rainbow flop. Until I have enough data in my HEM to prove otherwise, I'll continue to play 58os.
OP, majority says fold, so follow the sheep/nits/correct? people and fold 58os.
I'll play it all day, every day.
PS, just explained this hand to Phil Ivey on facebook, Im awaiting a reply. will ask Elky tomorrow when i get up, see what he says. and durr, when Phil Ivey recommends me to him.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

You say: "I'll risk one bb to hit that perfect flop, which the OP did, and won the hand."

But earlier in the thread you said you would fold that flop.

 

[JohnBoyWWFC]

I stated in my first post in this thread I call. then got berated by the nits etc. I justified to myself, and others why i make that call. It might be a losing play? so what? Its 1bb in a $1sng, lol.
Im learning limit, learning what hands to play, what not to play. premium of course, all PP, suited connectors most of the time, and then I get 58o hands and I think, hell, why not, Ive seen many a 679rainbow flop. Until I have enough data in my HEM to prove otherwise, I'll continue to play 58os.
OP, majority says fold, so follow the sheep/nits/correct? people and fold 58os.
I'll play it all day, every day.
PS, just explained this hand to Phil Ivey on facebook, Im awaiting a reply. will ask Elky tomorrow when i get up, see what he says. and durr, when Phil Ivey recommends me to him.

There's no way this is real any more.

 

[dadsrus]

lagfish poker is all that comes to mind but i havent hit 100 posts in 4 years what do i know lol

 

[KerouacsDog]

Originally Posted by KerouacsDog
ok, but what if I had built an impressive table image previous to this hand, I could call, right?

No. You would shove if anything. This is 100% shove/fold time. But still, no. Its a fold. Im saying the pros have table image built through years of being in the spotlight and their raises get more respect. In turn, they would respect the raise before them just as much and would fold this hot garbage in a second!
Durr wouldnt, he'd snapcall this
I want the left-field people to see my point of view, and to understand its my point of view, right or wrong, and maybe try it for themselves.
and the points I mentioned, and you listed. I stand by every one of them. Im stubborn, but only when I percieve myself to be right, which is the case here.

Again, this is the problem. You would want to sway a novice's opinion to start making bad plays? That just seems sooo wrong! And now you're taking it from just your opinion to stating you are right. Ofc they are going to attack!
no, i want the OP to find his own style. if he wants to be a nit, then fine, be a nit. if he wants to play loose, then this is the hand to call with
I take calculated risks like this all the time, its a $1 sng ffs

Last but not least...

Where is the calculations? Besides pot-odds? And it doesnt matter if its a $1 sng or a 10k sng. Its prolly the OP using BRM so to him this game means as much as any other game!
pot odds are all I need right now, right or wrong. course it matters if its $1 or 10K. 10K I play a 22/20 style. $1 I play whatever suits my mood that day, usually a 65/18 at limit.

 

[KerouacsDog]

btw, you want your stake back for the sunday million this weekend? Im gonna play a 22/20 style to start with, then nit it up? you worried?

 

[Blobweird123]

Originally Posted by KerouacsDog
ok, but what if I had built an impressive table image previous to this hand, I could call, right?

No. You would shove if anything. This is 100% shove/fold time. But still, no. Its a fold. Im saying the pros have table image built through years of being in the spotlight and their raises get more respect. In turn, they would respect the raise before them just as much and would fold this hot garbage in a second!
Durr wouldnt, he'd snapcall this
I want the left-field people to see my point of view, and to understand its my point of view, right or wrong, and maybe try it for themselves.
and the points I mentioned, and you listed. I stand by every one of them. Im stubborn, but only when I percieve myself to be right, which is the case here.

Again, this is the problem. You would want to sway a novice's opinion to start making bad plays? That just seems sooo wrong! And now you're taking it from just your opinion to stating you are right. Ofc they are going to attack!
no, i want the OP to find his own style. if he wants to be a nit, then fine, be a nit. if he wants to play loose, then this is the hand to call with
I take calculated risks like this all the time, its a $1 sng ffs

Last but not least...

Where is the calculations? Besides pot-odds? And it doesnt matter if its a $1 sng or a 10k sng. Its prolly the OP using BRM so to him this game means as much as any other game!
pot odds are all I need right now, right or wrong. course it matters if its $1 or 10K. 10K I play a 22/20 style. $1 I play whatever suits my mood that day, usually a 65/18 at limit.

So since my Roll at Carbon is at 50 bucks I should just spew every $1 sng I get into because its only $1????

That makes no sense. Im using BRM to make sure I don't bust. I want to win every possible chance I can

And im still 100% against any pro calling. Shoving maybe <1% of the time but not calling, EVER. And when I say ever, I mean EVER! lol That's why they are pro's. They don't call with 58o in the blinds vs a limp and a raise with only 6.5 bb's. EVER!

 

[Blobweird123]

btw, you want your stake back for the sunday million this weekend? Im gonna play a 22/20 style to start with, then nit it up? you worried?

Lol I staked you because I wanted to stake you. And now that I disagree with one particular HA you think I don't want to. I've read your posts previous to the stake. I know you have some (my opinion) flawed thinking at times. Still decided to stake you. But if you're gonna have an attitude about it and think that im attacking you and disrespecting you then yes, by all means, ship it back. If you realize that I'm just voicing my opinion and adding to this HA then stake is still on.

I was unsure why so many people on here had something against you. But I guess you have these "discussions" often?

 

[duggs]

I stated in my first post in this thread I call. then got berated by the nits etc. I justified to myself, and others why i make that call. It might be a losing play? so what? Its 1bb in a $1sng, lol.
Im learning limit, learning what hands to play, what not to play. premium of course, all PP, suited connectors most of the time, and then I get 58o hands and I think, hell, why not, Ive seen many a 679rainbow flop. Until I have enough data in my HEM to prove otherwise, I'll continue to play 58os.
OP, majority says fold, so follow the sheep/nits/correct? people and fold 58os.
I'll play it all day, every day.
PS, just explained this hand to Phil Ivey on facebook, Im awaiting a reply. will ask Elky tomorrow when i get up, see what he says. and durr, when Phil Ivey recommends me to him.

i dont even see what you are saying, so what if its a losing play? the guy posted asking for advice to play the hand optimally and you gave the nut worst line and cant even justify it. i dont understand why you require data for something that has mathematically been proven to be bad.

if you want to post stupid crap that has nothing to do with hand analysis thats fine, but dont screw things up for the people that actually come here looking to improve.

you arent right, you dont even have a comprehensive argument, moreover you bitch about people attacking you when really you blow your load whenever someone disagrees with you and points out fallacies in your analysis.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

^^ HU4Rollz imo

i'm on #TeamDuggs

 

[KerouacsDog]

So since my Roll at Carbon is at 50 bucks I should just spew every $1 sng I get into because its only $1????

That makes no sense. Im using BRM to make sure I don't bust. I want to win every possible chance I can

And im still 100% against any pro calling. Shoving maybe <1% of the time but not calling, EVER. And when I say ever, I mean EVER! lol That's why they are pro's. They don't call with 58o in the blinds vs a limp and a raise with only 6.5 bb's. EVER!

who says they dont call EVER?

Lol I staked you because I wanted to stake you. And now that I disagree with one particular HA you think I don't want to. I've read your posts previous to the stake. I know you have some (my opinion) flawed thinking at times. Still decided to stake you. But if you're gonna have an attitude about it and think that im attacking you and disrespecting you then yes, by all means, ship it back. If you realize that I'm just voicing my opinion and adding to this HA then stake is still on.

I was unsure why so many people on here had something against you. But I guess you have these "discussions" often?

no, I was asking if you wanted your money back, in case you lost your faith in my game, after reading this thread. i still want your stake, and i wanna earn your respect, as I have respect for you, irrelevent of this thread. stake is still on if you want it to be.
the sheep have no respect for me, you're not one of them. I know who the sheep are, and I know they hate me. thats fine, same as in real life, I have haters, and I have people with enormous respect for me and who I am.
yeah, these 'discussions' happen once a month, with the same old sheep voicing their same old tired opinions.

i dont even see what you are saying, so what if its a losing play? the guy posted asking for advice to play the hand optimally and you gave the nut worst line and cant even justify it. i dont understand why you require data for something that has mathematically been proven to be bad.

if you want to post stupid crap that has nothing to do with hand analysis thats fine, but dont screw things up for the people that actually come here looking to improve.

you arent right, you dont even have a comprehensive argument, moreover you bitch about people attacking you when really you blow your load whenever someone disagrees with you and points out fallacies in your analysis.

please dont bitch at me, cause every time someone does it from now, i report it to a Mod, as Im sick of the attacks.
reporting this now.
btw, when we gonna play HU? I was thinking limit, say $100 rolls? what do you say?

 

[KerouacsDog]

^^ HU4Rollz imo

i'm on #TeamDuggs

no surprise there...........................