Strange things on 888

[noremorse]

Hello ,
i wanted to see how i run in blasts on 888 but Holdem Manager support said 88 does not allow HM on blasts ... that right there was a big question mark.then i said ..ok i wil make an excel to see how i`m running .
First i was interested in those blasts that are finished after the first 6 minutes (when everybody is allin) so i`ve decided to split then in 3 categories .1 i was big ( i had more than 1000 chips over my opponent ) , 2 equal chips( diff < 1000 chips) and 3 i was small ( i had less with 1000 chips then my opponent) .

in the last 2 months this is how it looks like .

1. 184 Win 124 Lost. had over 65 % chips
2. 198 win 273 Lost . both had around 50 %
3. 74 win 173 Lost . had under 35 %

tha month before it looked the same way ( at point 2 for ex -- 110 -141 ) .

i have theese statistics detailed by day ..even with flips before the 6 minutes ... and with prize pools .
for ex in the last 560 games it was 51.32 % 2x (10$)
41.09 % 3x (15 $ )
6.17 % 5x (25 $ )
1.41 % 10x (50 $)
they don`t show theese probabilities on their website -- that right there another red flag .
the average prize pool is 13.65 $ so only from point 2 -- 75 diff -- around 40 i should have won -- around 500$ only from this part.
i`m telling you ..i started making theese stats in january without a plan to make them public so i trust that i did them accurately but is this normal ? every month is the same ..hardly a day where i am in front ... like 1 in 40 .

when you withdraw more then you deposit ... things will never be the same got it.but should be there some kind of auditing (for real) not paid by them also who can protect us from theese scamers ? you can get really sick in your head with kind of unfair treatement and no one seems to care.like if we are poker players we are not humans with equal rights

can anyone explain this ?

 

[dagniel]

I've registered with 888 a few weeks ago.


.......

Anyway I'll try to upload my history into a publicly available location for all that are interested to see.

But all in all my really strong impression is that an important amount of hands (at least at the tables/stakes that I've played) are generated for baiting players into "shoving" into the pot!

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8isaeyp1u5vb3lz/AADACXCIFE3sHm7n9Vos80t8a?dl=0

This is my entire history so far. I've just seen 2 similar hands in 2 subsequent tournaments that are just outrageous, so I just had to revisit this thread to continue on the discussion.

The first hand played by a bot versus a human: hand #1196295122 in "888.ro20200502 Tournament 0,45 $ + 0,05 $ $300 Guaranteed Turbo Deep (157430866) No Limit Holdem.txt" file.

And the second is one that I've folded(that was supposed to be "mine"): hand #1196379444 in "888.ro20200503 Tournament 0,45 $ + 0,05 $ $200 Guaranteed (157401535) No Limit Holdem.txt"

Just check them out.....the idea being that not only the dealing engine is rigged, but because they allow bots to play "limp with whatever", the effect is just compounded.


And with respect to the entirety of my history...guess it has a couple of thousand hands. I think there's no need to do "thorough statistics" on them. Just count for:
- how many pocket pairs(pitted against each-other)
- how many flops with at least 2 of A K Q
- how many full colored flops
- how many pairs on flop(I've actually seen at least 3-4 sets)

The amount of these outrageously low prob. events in simply amazingly high and these are just plain obvious, but not the only things that are generated! After playing this site for the last month, now, what's truly amazing for me is to see a pair or high card win in a hand! Also learned that going all in pre-flop(with top pairs) is a very very bad idea!.....that's on the good side...

 

[RaNer]

888Poker - this happens often

Any similar experiences?

 

[fundiver199]

Any similar experiences?

The guy with KT on QT5 had 20% chance of winning at showdown, so you losing is less strange than hitting a 4 on a dice. Also why were you not all in preflop with so little chips left behind? Getting the same pocket pair back to back is rare, but it happens around 1 in 220 times. Is your video meant as a joke?

 

[Dorugremon]

Any similar experiences

According to Equilab:

Equity Win Tie
MP2 13.00% 12.77% 0.23% { Kc, Ts }
BU 87.00% 86.77% 0.23% { As, Ac }

Pocket aces has 87% chance of winning here. That's a good position to be in, but you're not invincible here. SUX to lose it, but you also have an EEEEEEENORMOUS expected value if you're getting even money every time.

As for getting similar hands back-to-back, I had (K, K) three times in a row. That's 92.65E-9 or 10.79E6 : 1 against. Yet it happened. Play long enough, and you'll see the damnedest things happen. I also got (2, 2) 2 back-to-back at 7-Stud. That's: 32.76E-9 or 30.53E6 : 1 against. (In both cases, I lost with all three pocket kings, and both rolled up deuces hands, once unimproved, and once with Deuces Full.) Stuff like this happens: it's all part of the game.

As for possible shenanigans on poker sites, these claims are always long on anecdotes, but damned short of evidence. Evidence that should be easy to produce as there are loads of Poker tracking programs out there showing the long, term, out of whack, probabilities that stray too far from random to be coincidental.

As for RNGs, they don't have to be perfect, and are far more random than the shuffles that happen at the kitchen table with you, your Uncle Roy, three of your cousins and your brother-in-law. Also casino shuffles, especially when the dealer is tired and nearing the end of his shift.

Strange things happen, and the usual rec-fish often find some of the damnedest hands to play. Don'r ask me why, as I quit trying to figure out rec-fish. Yes, they will get there, sometimes repeatedly. That's what keeps 'em coming back and back.

 

[Tinozera]

Ive both won and lost on river straights, flushes, etc.. The last day or two Ive had alot of beats on the river..

 

[andrezito38]

at 888 if you go all in with AA against someone who has a much bigger stack than you and call with 72 off, I guarantee you lose, it is the most sinister place to try to play decent.
everything weird happens on that site, if you easily tweet bad beats, you better look for another way !!!!

 

[I Live Poker]

I have read lots of posts on here and other forums about so called random cards not being random, I have always laughed this type of thing off, until now, maybe ?
I play on 888 all the time now and I have noticed a lot of gutshot straights being made on the river, now I know of course that this is going to happen now and again, but time ofter time this happens on 888, it happens way more than has ever done on other sites I have played, over nearly 20 years.

This happens in my favour as well as against me and I do not think this is some devious plot to get more money off players, I just think it is a glitch in their random dealing software?
Anyone else noticed this, or maybe it is just randon but it happens so ofter I doubt it.

My friend, I don't know what happens there, but I win on several sites and on 888 I have a lot of difficulties. That the field there is very weak

 

[fundiver199]

Exactly. And even if we say, just for arguments sake, that the common "rigged to favour the big stack in tournaments" hypothesis is true, why does it even matter? Sometimes we are going to be the big stack, and then it will favour us, so its neutral EV in the long run.

And if people truly beleive this "big stack always win" hypothesis, they could actually take advantage of it by adopting a more aggressive strategy ("go strong or go home"). Or they could adjust their range based on, weather they have the opponent covered or not. So why complain about it? Why not take advantage of this flaw in the system, which you think, you have found, to earn some easy money?

The other common hypothesis is, that the RNG is rigged to favour losing players, so that no money is withdrawn from the site. However most of the people believing this are losing players themselfes, so if it was really true, the RNG would be rigged to favour them. Some might then say, that there are no winning players at all. But this is simply not true. Independent tracking sites like sharkscope provide the evidence.

https://www.sharkscope.com/#Player-Statistics//networks/888Poker/players/fundiver198

So in general all this talk about "rigged RNG" is an excuse made by players, who are not seeing the results, they feel, they deserve. They tend to:

a) Overestimate their own ability
b) Underestimate the competition
c) Underestimate the effect of rake
d) Underestimate the magnitude of variance
e) Suffer from tilt problems

 

[puzzlefish]

Any similar experiences?

Yes, lots of similar experiences.

 

[puzzlefish]

Exactly. And even if we say, just for arguments sake, that the common "rigged to favour the big stack in tournaments" hypothesis is true, why does it even matter? Sometimes we are going to be the big stack, and then it will favour us, so its neutral EV in the long run.

And if people truly beleive this "big stack always win" hypothesis, they could actually take advantage of it by adopting a more aggressive strategy ("go strong or go home"). Or they could adjust their range based on, weather they have the opponent covered or not. So why complain about it? Why not take advantage of this flaw in the system, which you think, you have found, to earn some easy money?

The other common hypothesis is, that the RNG is rigged to favour losing players, so that no money is withdrawn from the site. However most of the people believing this are losing players themselfes, so if it was really true, the RNG would be rigged to favour them. Some might then say, that there are no winning players at all. But this is simply not true. Independent tracking sites like Sharkscope provide the evidence.

https://www.sharkscope.com/#Player-Statistics//networks/888Poker/players/fundiver198

So in general all this talk about "rigged RNG" is an excuse made by players, who are not seeing the results, they feel, they deserve. They tend to:

a) Overestimate their own ability
b) Underestimate the competition
c) Underestimate the effect of rake
d) Underestimate the magnitude of variance
e) Suffer from tilt problems

Yes it is a shame that most discussion on rigged RNGs is by players who have no clue what they are actually seeing.

 

[antonis32123]

888poker is nice to go , build a bankroll , play many freerolls and free money tourneys , level up in 888poker club and get extra bonuses and money . The only problem is that they left many countries . All other accusations are meaningless , if you say these for 888poker , what can you say about JokerStars . Also the disconnection problem is a minor problem , see the whole picture .

 

[kefapos]

This is interesting. You can custom your strategy and try to catch the river. This is something we all do but in 888 you have the chances on your side

 

[Pret_Lispero]

It is easy to think that your opponents are getting lucky on the river way too often because you are way more likely to see your opponents cards when they do get lucky. This should also influence HM2 if you filter for opp hitting Gutshot, because, as said, you are more likely too see his hand when he hits than misses.

However, I have no idea why you are hitting more gutshots, just luck I suppose. The thought that 888's RNG would be flawed and they have not noticed it yet is so unlikely. I think it's a 1000 times more likely that they are rigging it, and I think it being rigged is as likely as me getting struck by lightning today .

On the legitimate sites today I think the only cheating going on is collution and bots, that's the real problem. (Super users could exist but probably not).

But you can look filter on flops with gutshot-draw for hypothetical hands, and then se how often the hypothetical draw hits vs how often it is expected to hit.

Anyone denying the facts stated by the other posters are blind

 

[Austria7]

Interesting contribution. I don't really enjoy playing 888 Poker anymore because my Macbook gets extremely hot and the fans have to work really hard to keep it cool. Apparently the software on 888 is very computationally intensive. I use 888 more for sports betting right now.

 

[Rockyfour]

It's probably because they give minimal cash back and charge extremely high rake, resulting in players who usually win to even lose.

There site is terrible, probably not rigged, but rigged in design.

 

[toni_brasco]

Please tell me a reason, why 888 should have programmed their software to increase the chance of Gutshots to be accomplished and how it's possible at all? Or you are just speaking about the great conspiracy without any proofs? Nothing personal, but please.. for the sake of sense. I mean it's a poker and you really should stop thinking that poker rooms are tricking you by manipulating false random generators in favor to somebody. I could ever imagine this at high roller stakes (which is really disgusting if it ever been), but at micro-low-middle.. Who ever will do that? And for what reasons?
As an example i had a funny session just yesterday at PS, where i've got dealt KK on two different tables, which both hit set on a flop. But it didn't stop amazing me, at one of those tables i kept getting AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AA again. It was like a birthday, but at the end i finished as a bubble to my lulz. It's a poker. Anything is possible. I don't believe someone tricking us. Not about this. They have enough money from high rake, that we pay to play.

I agree with you absolutely, but this guy as well what he is saying is that it doesn't happen in someones particular favor but too often is just drama- it is just like a rule:if you have pocket aces or kings you for example hit set on the flop and then of course runner runner for the other guy hitting the straight, it looks like is always like this...

 

[Uranus]

Look at this beauty.

Knockout tournament.

 

[adueno81]

Look at this beauty.

Knockout tournament.

Wow nice win

 

[Uranus]

I must say in their defence... I was one of the most angry on them, convinced that their software is not random.

Anyway, I made a statistic, for 888 and Pokestars. I wanted to see for myself the percent of winning for a type of allin preflop hands.

I decided to observe and count which players win most in a hand when 2 players goes allin preflop, one with Ax, the other ith Ay. (A means ace, x means bigger kicker, y lower kicker).

I counted just exactly that kind of hands, it must be allin preflop, it must be Ax vs Ay, and maximum 2 players involved. Of course, I counted just the hands I saw on tables while I played.

Well, the statistics started on 15 august 2018, and now looks like this:

Pokerstars:

Ax - 889 hands won
Ay - 422 hands won
Draw - 81 hands

(Total 1392 hands)

So, bigger kicker won 63.8%;
lower kicker won 30.3%
split pot : almost 6%

888:

Ax - 186 hands won
Ay - 104 hands won
Draw - 6 hands

(Total: 296 hands)

(on 888 I play much less than on pokerstars)

So, bigger kicker won 62.8%
lower kicker won 35.2%
Split pot: aprox. 2%

So, without any doubt, the best hand win more often.

 

[Elfina777]

I have strange things on 888, I won everything, then I took out 50 $ and after that 95% of my hands get knocked out by a card on the river, I think it's not easy, you can see this program control, now I try not to go to oli-nn the latter, since card 5 constantly knocks me out and it already lasts 2 weeks, somehow strange, for me I do not believe that this is accidental.

 

[Leeyonah96]

Yeah me too. 888 keeps on updating.

 

[betang]

888 is still uptading.

 

[DaaBee]

I remember a year ago I was playing a 10 cent blast sit n go and won a hand with quads over quads. At the micro stakes level and freerolls I notice a lot of junk hands winning.

When i first started playing 888, i was getting Quad Queens a lot. Those firsts two weeks were not random..I hit quad queens 10 times in 2 week.

A year later and i have not had quad Queen's. LOL

 

[puzzlefish]

Hello ,
i wanted to see how i run in blasts on 888 but Holdem Manager support said 88 does not allow HM on blasts ... that right there was a big question mark.then i said ..ok i wil make an excel to see how i`m running .
First i was interested in those blasts that are finished after the first 6 minutes (when everybody is allin) so i`ve decided to split then in 3 categories .1 i was big ( i had more than 1000 chips over my opponent ) , 2 equal chips( diff < 1000 chips) and 3 i was small ( i had less with 1000 chips then my opponent) .

in the last 2 months this is how it looks like .

1. 184 Win 124 Lost. had over 65 % chips
2. 198 win 273 Lost . both had around 50 %
3. 74 win 173 Lost . had under 35 %

tha month before it looked the same way ( at point 2 for ex -- 110 -141 ) .

i have theese statistics detailed by day ..even with flips before the 6 minutes ... and with prize pools .
for ex in the last 560 games it was 51.32 % 2x (10$)
41.09 % 3x (15 $ )
6.17 % 5x (25 $ )
1.41 % 10x (50 $)
they don`t show theese probabilities on their website -- that right there another red flag .
the average prize pool is 13.65 $ so only from point 2 -- 75 diff -- around 40 i should have won -- around 500$ only from this part.
i`m telling you ..i started making theese stats in january without a plan to make them public so i trust that i did them accurately but is this normal ? every month is the same ..hardly a day where i am in front ... like 1 in 40 .

when you withdraw more then you deposit ... things will never be the same got it.but should be there some kind of auditing (for real) not paid by them also who can protect us from theese scamers ? you can get really sick in your head with kind of unfair treatement and no one seems to care.like if we are poker players we are not humans with equal rights

can anyone explain this ?

I haven't read your post until now. I think the reason HM isn't allowed on Blast is because you can see everybody's cards for several boards in a row. There should be no reason for 888 to disallow HM there. Nobody is making a choice to play the cards they do in an all-in situation.