Has poker become boring and mathy?..

[ivanlt18]

In my humble opinion, Poker didn't change. What actually have changed is how people see and play poker. "Playing to have fun" is another way to say "I just play, I'm OK either if I win or lose". The people you mention as nerds might really want to WIN consistent money, so they are probably playing Poker based purely on maths and statistics. The thing is, if you play conditioned by the way other people play and really care about win or lose, you need to realize that probably you are going to lose more money than before overall. If you just "play to have fun", then it should't change or condition your thoughts about it.

 

[MrPokerVerse]

For me it has been the same for last 16 years or so. Using math is something from the start and over years have added very little to that. Mainly pot odds and few other quick equation.

Not sure of the change to the approach for new or older players for that matter. Always looking for an edge and tactics to employ to become more profitable.

 

[MichaelTyler]

Poker has become more non-intuitive at a glance and mathy, but it has opened up opportunities to become better and better and there is much less guess as to if your play is good or bad, objectively speaking.

 

[korbal29]

Poker will never be boring because every hand is a challenge,If you are competetive and want to absolutely win.
Sure online poker eliminates the reading abilities like body language and tells,but for me who has been playing 20+ years, its always a pleasure to shoot for few hands

 

[NWPatriot]

Interesting dialog guys and gals.

Poker theory is continually changing and evolving. As soon as someone comes up with a good "strategy", the rest of us need to adjust with a counter strategy or let them win. This is what makes poker interesting. For me it is like a puzzle to be solved. This hasn't changed. Math probabilities are a key to making the best decisions possible.


I think live poker is much "purer" than online poker. No computer programs, no HUD's, just me and you trying to win.

Online poker on the other hand, is wrought with issues. BOT's, programs, HUD's, collusion, etc. etc. I know that this sounds a little paranoid, I am only trying to illustrate the tremendous gap in how online and live play differ. Winning at either takes work.

Good luck and God bless.

 

[makisaa]

It was always a game where you need maths to make the simple calculations for your moves. In our time poker players use the tools of our time. This is not bad for me because I use these tools too and I follow my course!

 

[Claudiunm]

Hi all, my first post and I trying to make something clear here..


I didn't play for 10 years. In 2010-ish poker was a "cool" game and everyone seemed to just be having a lot of fun. I came back now to discover that things are just totally different


Has Poker become a boring, mathy activity for nerds sitting in front of 6 screens with 15 different software open running GTO simulations? By nerds I don't mean it in a derrogative form, I am a nerdy person myself It just seems to me that Poker has definitely shifted towards the number-crunching activity and the only way one can enjoy poker going forward, is to be someone who likes working with numbers exclusively (which I absolutely don't)

I don't refer to AI and GT taking over (which again, they are), I mean the overall direction poker has taken.

It seems to me I should have started playing in 2005 to retire now

Any thoughs on this?

Friend, think of it this way: The level of the players has evolved. If you once stood out in the game, now you are just one more. Evolve too. Or in a few more years you will be just a fish. The programs unfortunately exist. Calculators, HUDs and everything. But if you play a solid game you will be playing as equals with them.

A tip for this new world: A6s is not a hand to go all-in pre-flop.

​

 

[neptun1914]

It very much depends on the levels on which you play. At micro and low levels there are plenty of players who play for pure fun without calculating anything. In the casinos with live poker game there are enough gamblers which also don't care about math at all.

Game is just evolving generally. Around 10 or 20 years ago main advantage was for the players who have experience and are good at reading people because live games were dominant. With the switch to online poker and the involvement of electronic devices like computers or phones it is natural players to want to use this computing power to improve their game by studying GTO, using HUDs and so on.

If you want to play for fun - well do it. Just invest some money to play as a hobby and make fun. If you want to make money from the game your only option is to evolve together with the game and other players.

 

[Lena M]

Hello.
Obviously, this is your subjective opinion. No doubt, during your absence, poker has changed, but you need to keep in mind that you have also changed. For me, poker is not boring, but I actually get bored if I don't have time to play.

 

[Pokersavvy]

Poker isn't boring to me. I wish I had more time for it. Hoping to be able to put more time into it soon.

Happy Holidays to all!

 

[gena31]

Happy New Year, everyone! and poker is interesting, it was and will be, and who is tired of it, do not play, find something else to do to your liking

 

[thwenth1983]

Poker is a very complex game

Good afternoon everyone, depending on the group of players who will answer this question, in my opinion the players who are profitable will not think that poker is a boring and mathematical game.
If you study and practice you will be profitable, you have to know which hands are profitable to open from UTG and from each position, know which hands you should 3bet, which hands to call 3bet, what size of stack you have to go in straight, poker is a very complex game and it is clear that the player who studies more, practices more, has discipline, will be profitable.

 

[matiusaa]

I don’t think so, but the trend is definitely going that way

 

[samsonand]

I could not say that online poker is boring since I always have fun every day that I go playing this excellent sport

 

[meagain00]

It's a interesting point of view. I agree with the "mathy" part but no with the "boring".

Each day more people start do play poker due a variety of reasons. In 2020, because the Coronavirus, many people lost their jobs, and a part of them started to play, others, who already was playing putted more effort to be lucrative, and it's include studying, using of poker programs, and others actions.

It increases the amount of players who take serious the game.

By the other hand, many people got free time with the pandemic, and it increases the number of recreational players.

So I think there's an equilibrium. And it's not boring.At least not for me. That's my opinion. Sorry for my poor English.

meagain00

Hi all, my first post and I trying to make something clear here..


I didn't play for 10 years. In 2010-ish poker was a "cool" game and everyone seemed to just be having a lot of fun. I came back now to discover that things are just totally different


Has Poker become a boring, mathy activity for nerds sitting in front of 6 screens with 15 different software open running GTO simulations? By nerds I don't mean it in a derrogative form, I am a nerdy person myself It just seems to me that Poker has definitely shifted towards the number-crunching activity and the only way one can enjoy poker going forward, is to be someone who likes working with numbers exclusively (which I absolutely don't)

I don't refer to AI and GT taking over (which again, they are), I mean the overall direction poker has taken.

It seems to me I should have started playing in 2005 to retire now

Any thoughs on this?

 

[Phoenix Wright]

I disagree vehemently that GTO play is absolutely mandatory. It's true that there are ways to basically guarantee profit in the long run, but the long run can only apply to cash games. In multi-table tournaments and sit and goes, you never get to the long run. Maybe GTO probabilistic play can still lead to an overall profit there, but--and this is the critical point--in those formats it's hardly the only way to turn a profit, precisely because the long run is never reached.

I know one thing--to me, poker is and always has been playing your fellow PLAYERS before playing your cards, and I've managed to find at least modest success that way so far. When I'm sat with people who rely on people who treat GTO probability as gospel, all that means to me is that they're going to be marvellously predictable. Sure, I'll have to get lucky to beat them, but there's only so long you can play poker without seeing any lucky outcomes. That's what managing the luck is.

Exactly! GTO may be best against computers that play "perfectly", but at least for the human players at my tables: they make mistakes and my exploitative play is sufficient. My perspective has always been that "solving" poker only applies if:

a) the opponents are also playing "perfectly" (nash equilibrium) - which they aren't even close to doing in my games

b) the "long-run" is reached; which as highlighted here, isn't usually reached. Maybe "long-run" balances for consistent cash games or a poker players' career, but one game is by no means "long-run."

I believe that poker has changed in many ways (a big part due to computers/solvers), but GTO is not the only way the game of poker has evolved. Even on a psychology level, many players are now better informed due to how much easier it is to obtain information. Now there are YouTube videos, online poker courses, forum communities like CardsChat and many other resources. Basically, books were near the top in resources previously. I can't say I played poker enough back then, but I wouldn't be surprised if the game shifted from this mindset (and GTO especially) in another decade from now. Maybe more emphasis will be on more than just the math. Keep in mind that the solver is only as good as the accuracy of the ranges one inputs. I know some players who I can profitably fold against if they show little aggression at all; I see one River bet and know they have at least AK lol. pot odds (for example) is not how you decide to call or not - it it merely one factor in the decision-making process (an important one, but not the only one). Given the identical pot odds, I'll call a maniac more often than a nit; the solver wouldn't come up with this obvious fact if you don't input the opponent range accurately.

 

[Lheticus]

Exactly! GTO may be best against computers that play "perfectly", but at least for the human players at my tables: they make mistakes and my exploitative play is sufficient. My perspective has always been that "solving" poker only applies if:

a) the opponents are also playing "perfectly" (nash equilibrium) - which they aren't even close to doing in my games

b) the "long-run" is reached; which as highlighted here, isn't usually reached. Maybe "long-run" balances for consistent cash games or a poker players' career, but one game is by no means "long-run."

I believe that poker has changed in many ways (a big part due to computers/solvers), but GTO is not the only way the game of poker has evolved. Even on a psychology level, many players are now better informed due to how much easier it is to obtain information. Now there are YouTube videos, online poker courses, forum communities like CardsChat and many other resources. Basically, books were near the top in resources previously. I can't say I played poker enough back then, but I wouldn't be surprised if the game shifted from this mindset (and GTO especially) in another decade from now. Maybe more emphasis will be on more than just the math. Keep in mind that the solver is only as good as the accuracy of the ranges one inputs. I know some players who I can profitably fold against if they show little aggression at all; I see one River bet and know they have at least AK lol. Pot Odds (for example) is not how you decide to call or not - it it merely one factor in the decision-making process (an important one, but not the only one). Given the identical pot odds, I'll call a maniac more often than a nit; the solver wouldn't come up with this obvious fact if you don't input the opponent range accurately.

Hey, thanks for the backup! To be honest, I wasn't expecting any. Very good thoughts here too, especially about the solver being only as good as the accuracy of the input range. Mix up your range enough, I bet you could even fool an HUD. And I 120% agree with what you said on pot odds.

 

[Swat1197]

Try to create new way of the game and it won't be boring

 

[MoCoSolo]

Not many people are playing poker online for pure entertainment as they would in person. The hurdles required to play online in the U.S. is annoying enough that you are probably playing because you are a math nerd.

My only advice is to play on bigger sites like PS where there are a lot more players with more possibility of bigger fish and people that study the game less. Some other sites, I see the same grinders literally all hours of the day.

 

[MoCoSolo]

Try to create new way of the game and it won't be boring

But will be exciting (or at least less boring) for a short period of time before you lose all your money .

 

[BatOneHat]

Didn’t Play Back Then

Yes, in today’s game it’s all about third-party software and statistics. I like the statistics part but I don’t like the third-party software. I think it’s basically cheating or who can afford the most expensive.

 

[CSLysander]

Poker may have become math based in many ways, but it is still as much psychology as math. You sit across from someone and figure out the type of player they are. If you become good, you find ways to put them on tilt. I love sitting there and making people think I am tight, somewhat weak, then bluffing at the right time. Humans are involved in this game, plus or minus a few bots. This makes the game far more unpredictable than some computer model can handle with every scenario.

There is a part of this video that shows psychology is very important.

This video also made me wish I was 20 years younger, lol.

 

[Costy69]

Is poker boring

Poker is not boring or mathy. Seems to poker is as donky as ever. I dond care if these kids wanna play trash and get lucky. Keep on doing it.

 

[det0nate]

Poker boring?
since when? lol I take 2 days off of playing poker and i start to jones lol
maybe if i was losing more then i win i guess i might get bored of that part lol
but im not in that situation .

 

[123cards321]

poker can be completely mathy or completely about intuition, I think it depends on the player how you play it. Maybe the average player is completely based on solver and the mathematical "right" way to every hand, but every hand is diferent and the intuition sense is clearly better than just playing the right mathematical way but its harder to prove it, explain it or teach it. I think the optimal solution is to know the GTO way and how people are "supposed" to act if they are thinking mathematical and based on your intuition make the right play and gain as much chips as posible in every hand