Has poker become boring and mathy?..

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Zeke67

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Personal opinion

I enjoy the math part of poker. I like the intricacies of “poker math”. However math is not the only skill/tool that a given person utilizes. I feel it helps keep my mind sharp and adds to my personal enjoyment!! My opinion.

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mrwalleye

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if it ever does become those things i will find some other way to pass time
 
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Zirkzee

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I think that's why poker is so interesting. It's not only a game of luck, but it also has a lot to do with skill, strategy, psychology and yes, math. Do you know the saying "it takes a minute to learn, and a lifetime to master ". That's the cool thing about it. You never stop learning. You have to gain a lot of experience to become a good player. You have to have a lot of different skills to be successful. Those who only rely on math will not be successful. It takes a lot more than that.
 
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Nel1523

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I think poker is the most fun game there is! It is not just a game of luck, it also has a lot to do with skill, strategy, psychology and yes, mathematics.
 
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karl coakley

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Poker is a math based game, you do have to understand the math (which most people don't which is why so many complaints about beats), but it is really a people game.

Emotions are a huge part of Poker. I could and do make bets which don't give you the odds for your draws., yet get called all day long. People don't call when they do have the proper odds because they don't like their hand, the risk, or are afraid. Happens all day long.

The people aspect is most of the time more important than the math in the short term. You need both.
 
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ataraxyan

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In my personal opinion it was already for nerd's number crunching activity from the first time, if you are a serious player. Poker or the other all gambles are all of numbers and odds. Only, in the past the technologies and software-like things were just not popular and prevalent and just took some time to be prevalent, though I don't use them. So I conclude it's just change of the times and technologies not the game itself. But besides that, I think holdem needs some change. Because the game itself is kinda boring. You know the nickname of the holdem is 'Foldem'. Especially like 9 rings game is nonsense -5 or 6 rings are much better -, I think, for it takes too much time. And holdem itself share surprisingly 5 cards with each other. Maybe someone says that's why holdem is fun. But I think gambles need some dark secrets - I mean, like, not shared cards - to each other to be fun. And the bigger the dark unknown parts are, the more fun to play, because it leads to more highly advanced strategical play, though too much unknown parts leads to only luck-dependence play. Yes, it's only my opinion, though, but think about it. In holdem we share 5 cards revealed and my only 2 unknown cards to the enemies? That's almost 70% we share. Yes, I know holdem is very difficult game but you can also think it's kinda childish with these 70% shared cards.
 
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Ice Wolf

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Boring and mathy? You must be referring to live poker because my percentages don't come close to making sense to what they are supposed to be close to and the run outs are insane on the sites I play on so that excludes both of those.
 
RimworldDoctor

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The more I learn, the more formulaic it becomes, so yes in a way. There's still some art when it comes to representing your bluffs, but aside from that it can be kinda dull.
 
demesquita

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100% true for online poker, cash games, profitable poker... but I still find the live tournaments for have that classic je-ne-se-qua that makes the game fun... another reason to wish for this desease goes away ASAP so I can get back into the real tables. :) I play for the fun and not the long winnings. I make friends there and that is what counts to me.
 
Maxmustdie

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poker schools, cartels, bots killed poker
 
Poker Orifice

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Hmmm. Two points.

The first being the idea poker has been 'solved'. It has and it hasn't. It has become a cliche to say that GTO/theoretical play dominates poker. It perhaps does at the highest levels but the vast majority of players underneath are not playing anything which approximates GTO poker, as there is no point. GTO works when you face players also implementing that strategy -when they are not, your GTO game is rendered redundant.

Further many of the highest stakes cash games and series such as Triton feature players who are (very) rich amateurs/semi-pros and they aren't playing solver based poker either- not to mention players such as Bryn Kenney who have never used a solver at all.

Point Two therefore is about the standard of play simply getting better in an organic manner.

Dara O'Kearney, an excellent player (as well as coach and podcaster) has frequently noted that he now coaches several amateurs who have no intention of turning pro. However, what they want to do is play as a hobby and then perhaps enter a few serious tourneys a year...and they simply have a real desire to play well.

And this now applies to virtually all recreational players these days. Everybody has learning materials at hand. Books, videos, Twitch streams, coaching are readily available and it would appear as if most playing now study the game in a manner not done before. The net result is play has improved immensely.

Its not a question of all play is now math or statistic based - it isn't. But one and all now play fundamentally sound poker and therefore the game on even the lowest of levels is more competitive.


Great response!


To add to this for OP,
the players who were killing it back in 2010 (HSMTT) might not even be competitive in those fields today unless they've been regularly working on their game, always adapting to current conditions.

I've seen many players who at one time were in the upper echelon and now unable to make a profit even over large sample sizes (so they're still playing... but can't keep up with the current standard of play).
 
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thiagotup197

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It is not boring but a logical game that involves math
 
INISHTE

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Hi friend.

Basically, if people with enough money to pay for these tools make sure they can get their money back and earn more, I think for those of us who want to become professionals at this, it is necessary to learn how to use those tools and be able to pay. for them.
 
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ppartizan2

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I do think that poker has defininetly become mathy,just because of the massive spread of online poker,and huge amounts of softwares that help you win.When it comes to boring,i dont think its boring just because you always have a local casino where you can play real people.And also,poker is never boring when you are winning.
 
Pokerpoet2

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Not for me, Poker is never boring, the thrill of the challenge to beat opponents across the felt is still as amazing as it was 20 years ago, Sure there is a lot of math's when it comes to playing the game, not just identifying how many outs you have, but also the percentages of actually making your hand, and where you are when it comes to Blind count and is it worth calling or raising etc, etc. all this has to be figured out in your head, in seconds, (unless you are using a HUD) which works this out for you, but I prefer to play with my own instincts.
HUD software takes away the fun of playing Poker, because it makes the decision for you, they cannot be used in a Live game in a Casino, and if you become reliant on them, it could be a problem when playing Live when you have nothing to rely on.
I feel that Poker becomes more clinical and robotic when using any software to help you make decisions, then it becomes boring and repetitive.

When the fun Stops, STOP!
 
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Carlloss

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We can say that mathematics is the structural basis of long-term profit. But that's not all, playing poker is about making decisions based on many factors, on every round, on every street, on every action, even on the same street.

Let's say you're on the button, at the start of the tournament with a pair 88 and 50 blinds, UTG pays 1 blind, MP pays 1 blind. The action comes to you, so you make a decision, based on your stack, the stage of the tournament, and your weak opponents clearing. In this case you will raise to 5 or 6 times the initial bet and play your pair in position against a few opponents. So if that opponent who cleared from UTG calls your raise and the flop comes AT5, UTG checks, you C-Bet and UTG calls, he's probably calling with an A and another low, what's the chance he's folding and you win with your hand? It's too low, weak players hardly drop an A early in a tournament. But now imagine that same situation, only this time, we're in the money bubble and you have 15 blinds, the odds are still the same, are you going to raise to the same 5 or 6 blinds? Of course not, you're going to go all in, and make your opponents fold their hands, or when you get called, unfortunately, it depends solely on the probability of making it to the river as a winner.

I don't know if I was very clear, but in poker even online, you're playing against people, and people aren't machines, they make varied and often unpredictable decisions that not even math can really predict, and that's where the charm of poker, you defeat math by exploring your opponent's mind.
 
fernandofcp

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Dear PokerPT2645,
Like everything else in life, poker has evolved. To succeed in life with your endeavors, you need to develop knowledge, skills and attitudes to achieve your goals. With the game of poker it is no different. Studying and training is what must be done. I think poker is still cool, but harder and harder as it's a mental sport and minds evolve.
 
toni_brasco

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I am playing a lot, every day micro stakes mtt and don't use any software and i don't care if someone does - for me is a lot of fun and i'm playing by feelings only, don't count anything and in last 10 played tournaments was 7 times in the money averegely among 300-400 players.
If i want to finish in the money i never play more then 2 tables, but prefer one.
I mean playing every day at least 3 - 4 hours in last 4 years.
 
pavel1111111

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no...i think is more exacting , more active ...i enjoy it a lot...:)
 
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ekgbeat

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Poker is what you make it. If you want to just have fun while playing then do that. If you enjoy the strategy, and want to go deep in the math then do that.
 
manzanillo53

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Yes it has, but it is still poker. A good bluff can beat math if played in the right situation. What is happening now is, they work out the probability of winning that hand. So best action would be to raise heavy, which throughs off the math to your favor. Old school has always used math, just not this degree.
 
Bambini7777

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he was always like that, I wish I didn't know about this game at all:(
 
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kanycta99

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It all depends on your attitude to the game. Enjoy poker, don't turn it into a job, and then it won't be a tedious game.
 
vnnby

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With the advancement of technology, poker has become a smarter and safer game. Each organization has its own rules for using third-party software. With the advancement of technology, people are also developing, so poker has become an even more interesting game for those who love a good opponent's play that brings you a reward.
 
Sivraj

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Poker is a game that always involved math. But I don't like how these courses try to make it numerical rocket science because in general poker is not rocket science. You don't have to be a math genius to be good in poker but it's important that you know the basics at least.
 
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