Has poker become boring and mathy?..

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PokerPT2645

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Hi all, my first post and I trying to make something clear here..


I didn't play for 10 years. In 2010-ish poker was a "cool" game and everyone seemed to just be having a lot of fun. I came back now to discover that things are just totally different :(


Has Poker become a boring, mathy activity for nerds sitting in front of 6 screens with 15 different software open running GTO simulations? By nerds I don't mean it in a derrogative form, I am a nerdy person myself :) It just seems to me that Poker has definitely shifted towards the number-crunching activity and the only way one can enjoy poker going forward, is to be someone who likes working with numbers exclusively (which I absolutely don't)

I don't refer to AI and GT taking over (which again, they are), I mean the overall direction poker has taken.

It seems to me I should have started playing in 2005 to retire now ;)

Any thoughs on this?
 
kidkarioka

kidkarioka

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Poker schools have turned poker into a totally focused on probability and thus standardized the way of playing. Currently, most players maintain that standard form of play. Which in turn, in the long run, bring good results. Lucky, unconscious and enthusiastic poker left the scene ... this model, let's say: romantic to play, only bluffs and aggressions remain. The rest is pure monotony whose results are already known even before the end of the range.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Emily Trott

Emily Trott

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Poker schools have turned poker into a totally focused on probability and thus standardized the way of playing.
I'm primarily a tournament player, and when that is what I am doing I don't base my play on the size of the pot in relation to the probability of making my hand. As you said those are considerations for the long term, and tournaments are entirely in the short term, versus cash games which are in the long term.
 
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crazycitizen

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How dare you call maths boring :ppp

Poker has always involved maths...
I personally do not find it boring, I find it very interesting :)

The way I see it, online poker suits the maths nerds. Live poker is more about tells and the "cool" stuff.

Maybe you should play at the casino instead of online.

Either way, if you want to improve you will have to study. And studying poker will involve maths in one way or another.
 
diego farfan

diego farfan

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unfortunately it is the truth now they play with any hand supported by various programs and end up winning but what one can do is change strategy and try to have fun
 
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vittopio

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I don't agree that poker has become boring! It's just that any kind of activity drives out amateurs over time (if, of course, there is development). Yes, poker has become more difficult, but no less exciting!
 
infonazar

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I think this is an individual issue. For some, poker has become boring, for some poker has become interesting, for some it is fun, and for others it is profitable. Everything is individual. But if you are very sad, you can try to play in a $ 100 buy-in tournament, and I think it will cheer you up. :)
 
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PokerPT2645

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What throws me off is the fact that Poker has been solved. Before the GT calculators, no matter how good were the best of best, you could aspire to become like them and better. Poker had way too many possible scenarios and there was no way a human would ever "crack" the game, so there was always the element of uncertainty even for the pros.

Now it looks like there are the optimal solutions to the play, so you are basically studying the steps you have to follow in every scenario, based on GT solver solutions, rather than trying to play your oponent, which is (was) the whole fun of poker. You don't even have to understand those GT solutions, just follow them because the computer says so...

Poker seems to be turning into some sort of chess rather than gambling/fun.

Add real time solvers and there is nothing left of the game 😔😔😔 Now I can't even be sure I am loosing due to lack of skill or because the opponent is using RTA.

Fortunately 90% of these problems don't exist in live poker, but the bloody GT solutions still ruin the magic imho.
 
terryk

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I learned a long time ago,you can't control what others do so don't worry about it,,,focus on you. :deal:
 
Whodahustla

Whodahustla

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I understand....

That’s probably why Doyle retired but yeah I get it. Even Daniel Negreanu talks about it from time to time but what keeps him a float is that he’s fairly good with numbers anyway so he made the transition and started using a little of the old and new style. This’ll be a great question for him next time he goes live on YouTube. That stuff makes my head hurt. I’ve analyzed what works, what doesn’t and I play based on that. I do okay in the tournament sector. My goal is to place 1-20. Currently my average is 40. Good Luck!😉
 
Roller

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Math is poker and poker is math, solvers are here to stay and join in or let it pass you up. Always have to stay with the adapting times or your game will suffer until you no longer a winning player.
 
perrypip

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Compared to live poker, online is boring and mathy, especially with huds and all that. It has become a very cut and dry technical game.
 
messats

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poker isnt boring

Hi all, my first post and I trying to make something clear here..


I didn't play for 10 years. In 2010-ish poker was a "cool" game and everyone seemed to just be having a lot of fun. I came back now to discover that things are just totally different :(


Has Poker become a boring, mathy activity for nerds sitting in front of 6 screens with 15 different software open running GTO simulations? By nerds I don't mean it in a derrogative form, I am a nerdy person myself :) It just seems to me that Poker has definitely shifted towards the number-crunching activity and the only way one can enjoy poker going forward, is to be someone who likes working with numbers exclusively (which I absolutely don't)

I don't refer to AI and GT taking over (which again, they are), I mean the overall direction poker has taken.

It seems to me I should have started playing in 2005 to retire now ;)

Any thoughs on this?


like every hobby or profession there is a certain level of skill to be applied to to poker to make it one of the most competitive and thrilling games in the world. jus like pro athletes train their minds and body for their respective sport, a more than average level of mathematical and deducing skills has to be applied to poker
 
Q

Qrise

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Hi all, my first post and I trying to make something clear here..


I didn't play for 10 years. In 2010-ish poker was a "cool" game and everyone seemed to just be having a lot of fun. I came back now to discover that things are just totally different :(


Has Poker become a boring, mathy activity for nerds sitting in front of 6 screens with 15 different software open running GTO simulations? By nerds I don't mean it in a derrogative form, I am a nerdy person myself :) It just seems to me that Poker has definitely shifted towards the number-crunching activity and the only way one can enjoy poker going forward, is to be someone who likes working with numbers exclusively (which I absolutely don't)

I don't refer to AI and GT taking over (which again, they are), I mean the overall direction poker has taken.

It seems to me I should have started playing in 2005 to retire now ;)

Any thoughs on this?


I completely agree with you! Now poker is not the same as it used to be (And this is especially noticed by players who have not played for more than 10 years, but have now returned. Well, what can I say about this, our discontent will not change anything, here you need to either accept it or not play. More we can't do anything about it.
 
Newzooozooo

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Hi.
For me, poker has never been boring. For me, poker is a wonderful, perfect hobby that gives me pleasure virtually every day.
Good luck.
 
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COMIRRR

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After reading your comments I come to the conclusion that the poker schools we know should not have been set up and no helper program (I don't even use them), all for the newcomer to discover and learn on their own what does the game of poker really mean, to learn when to act and when not to do it and all the other principles of poker ... right now that newcomer is fighting some humanoid "robots" that don't give him any a chance and it makes him not feel the pleasure of the game that many of us had a few years ago, all this if he does not go through the poker school and already becomes from the beginning what we are! However for me this game is beautiful and I don't think I could do without it no matter if I win today and lose tomorrow, everything is part of the game and we have to assume that.
 
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007Leon

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I think is because we want to live of it and we try to maximize the odds
 
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dregan

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You want to say that everyone has played before, including you without thinking at all about the possible probability of getting the necessary card for you. Complete nonsense. It's not like building a house out of cubes. Anyway, you put your thoughts and efforts to win, which means you used the theory of probability. And this is mathematics. It's just that now you understand that in poker you can't do without mathematics.
 
D

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Hmmm. Two points.

The first being the idea poker has been 'solved'. It has and it hasn't. It has become a cliche to say that GTO/theoretical play dominates poker. It perhaps does at the highest levels but the vast majority of players underneath are not playing anything which approximates GTO poker, as there is no point. GTO works when you face players also implementing that strategy -when they are not, your GTO game is rendered redundant.

Further many of the highest stakes cash games and series such as Triton feature players who are (very) rich amateurs/semi-pros and they aren't playing solver based poker either- not to mention players such as Bryn Kenney who have never used a solver at all.

Point Two therefore is about the standard of play simply getting better in an organic manner.

Dara O'Kearney, an excellent player (as well as coach and podcaster) has frequently noted that he now coaches several amateurs who have no intention of turning pro. However, what they want to do is play as a hobby and then perhaps enter a few serious tourneys a year...and they simply have a real desire to play well.

And this now applies to virtually all recreational players these days. Everybody has learning materials at hand. Books, videos, Twitch streams, coaching are readily available and it would appear as if most playing now study the game in a manner not done before. The net result is play has improved immensely.

Its not a question of all play is now math or statistic based - it isn't. But one and all now play fundamentally sound poker and therefore the game on even the lowest of levels is more competitive.
 
blkmoney12

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I don't think it's a math problem it's just something else problem

Good evening to you all the topic is is the math boring in poker. Math is always been a part of poker I think was really taking over the analytics of hands and calls being made based on that and not the most important thing that should override just about any decision that is the human element. the math will come and go but they're still the human element to the game and I think that is what gets lost sometimes is that human element. also I think because of the analytics people are making decisions based on that and not the human element period an example of that would be let's say there's a blind versus blind and someone raises and they might have an ace well the big blind might have Ace can be raises them over the top and they go all in and then the villain or the player calls and is shot they have a nation and they hit their second kicker and they take out the Ace King. And then you ask why did you call well he's not supposed to have an ace in that situation and that's comes down to analytics and math and all that other stuff but it doesn't justify the call because what about is that player capable of raising something other than Ace King is that player capable of doing that and that is what gets lost in poker. And I think that's the key to everything has changed it went by is the person capable of making a move rather than just the analytics part of it in the math of course.
 
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andrezito38

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life is adaptation, if you feel that poker has changed, change with it.
it will be good for you !!
 
joaquinvd

joaquinvd

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I think that it has become professionalized, so to speak, now with technology, they have high-level players teaching through Twich or YouTube how to play and more in-depth academy courses before were not so.
 
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slais_pro

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to date, the level of many players has simply increased due to different programs and a large number of training videos. Therefore, the game seems a little more boring than before.
 
Lheticus

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I disagree vehemently that GTO play is absolutely mandatory. It's true that there are ways to basically guarantee profit in the long run, but the long run can only apply to cash games. In multi-table tournaments and sit and goes, you never get to the long run. Maybe GTO probabilistic play can still lead to an overall profit there, but--and this is the critical point--in those formats it's hardly the only way to turn a profit, precisely because the long run is never reached.

I know one thing--to me, poker is and always has been playing your fellow PLAYERS before playing your cards, and I've managed to find at least modest success that way so far. When I'm sat with people who rely on people who treat GTO probability as gospel, all that means to me is that they're going to be marvellously predictable. Sure, I'll have to get lucky to beat them, but there's only so long you can play poker without seeing any lucky outcomes. That's what managing the luck is.
 
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