Let's try to become a winning player

braveslice · Oct 23, 2017

Not saying that you should not fold more, but regardless I read about this couple of days ago. With 42bb/100 I would not think twice about it =)

BrakRain79
11 Undeniable Truths About Crushing the Micros
http://www.blackrain79.com/2016/06/11-undeniable-truths-about-crushing.html

9. Don't Worry About Your Red Line

The red line in poker geek speak is essentially your non-showdown winnings. This is the amount that you win or lose when somebody wins a pot but no cards get shown.

This is the game within the game in poker. And from a technical perspective, this is really where the elite players separate themselves from the rest.

The problem with the micros though is that so many of your opponents are huge calling stations (assuming you have taken point #5 above seriously).

Therefore, striving to achieve a great red line (positive non-showdown winnings) is actually counter-productive because you simply can't expect to win by bluffing against these types of players.

At the lowest limits in particular (NL2, NL5) break-even is the absolute best you should ever hope for. My red line is actually negative in these games and I am one of the biggest winners of all time in them.

The green line (overall winnings) is the only line that actually matters. Stop wasting your time and money trying to bluff calling stations and focus on big value instead at the lower limits.

Supmargy · Oct 23, 2017

Maybe I should have been more specific about what I'm "worried" about in my red line.
I felt like the slope was too steep to be optimal. I get that you miss value from showdowns if you get your red line up, as you MUST bluff quite often to get in the positive side.

My point was that I thought I was overplaying some hands, folding too late, ... which affected my redline. I have tried to fold more quickly (especially with pocket pairs, and A high) this afternoon, and my redline seems better, whithout losing much blue line.
I do realise that it's a small sample size.

The thing is, in poker every edge counts, right? And if I see things in my play that affect the red line, im going to try to better those aspects as well. Thats why, in my opinion, the title should be "9. Don't Worry too much About Your Red Line"

Just my two cents.

Anyway, Here's the graph from this morning + afternoon (cutoff around 950 hands approximately)

bankroll went up to 63.24$

Supmargy · Oct 23, 2017

Some hands from this afternoon:

Hand 1: I don't know whether to fold this at some point or not. The guy just donks, so I don't really have that much info, and for a good while I know I probably have the best hand. So when would I fold if I do?

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 100.5 BB
SB: 116.5 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
BB: 127.5 BB (VPIP: 4.17, PFR: 4.17, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 25)
UTG: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 20.78, PFR: 12.99, 3Bet Preflop: 5.71, Hands: 78)
CO: 119 BB (VPIP: 31.82, PFR: 22.73, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:heart: Q:heart:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) 4:heart: Q:spade: 6:spade:
SB bets 5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

Turn: (17 BB, 2 players) J:club:
SB bets 12 BB, Hero calls 12 BB

River: (41 BB, 2 players) 2:spade:
SB bets 15 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

SB shows K:spade: T:spade: (Flush, King High)
(Pre 39%, Flop 45%, Turn 39%)
Hero mucks A:heart: Q:heart: (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 61%, Flop 55%, Turn 61%)
SB wins 68.5 BB

Hand 2: I don't know about this one either. It feels like a 50/50 (maybe even worse) to me when considering his range. I did not want to take the risk.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 102 BB (VPIP: 20.65, PFR: 14.13, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 94)
BB: 113 BB (VPIP: 22.35, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 86)
UTG: 87 BB (VPIP: 48.45, PFR: 4.12, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 97)
CO: 70.5 BB (VPIP: 23.60, PFR: 16.85, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 89)
Hero (BTN): 147.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:heart: Q:heart:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB raises to 10 BB, fold, Hero calls 7 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 2 players) Q:spade: 5:spade: 5:club:
SB bets 13.5 BB, fold

SB wins 20.5 BB

Hand 3: QQ+ is definitely in his range, and I don't feel like he would bet AQ+ vs 2 villains unless they were clubs. So I folded. Good fold or not?

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 102 BB (VPIP: 22.09, PFR: 19.77, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, Hands: 87)
SB: 105.5 BB (VPIP: 25.76, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 67)
Hero (BB): 211 BB
UTG: 97.5 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
MP: 109 BB (VPIP: 14.14, PFR: 14.14, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 104)
CO: 113.5 BB (VPIP: 27.08, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 50)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:club: J:diamond:

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 8 BB, MP calls 6 BB

Flop: (27.5 BB, 3 players) 9:club: 8:club: 7:spade:
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets 14 BB, fold, fold

CO wins 26.5 BB

Hand 4: Do I miss value when I reraise here? I felt like he was chasing a flush, and didn't want him to get there. So I gave him the wrong odds to call.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP): 119.5 BB
CO: 198.5 BB (VPIP: 25.53, PFR: 17.02, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 47)
BTN: 49 BB (VPIP: 7.14, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 29)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
BB: 116.5 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
UTG: 206 BB (VPIP: 21.54, PFR: 18.46, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 66)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 2:club: 2:heart:

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, SB raises to 8 BB, fold, Hero calls 5 BB

Flop: (17 BB, 2 players) 7:club: T:club: 2:spade:
SB bets 11 BB, Hero calls 11 BB

Turn: (39 BB, 2 players) K:diamond:
SB bets 20 BB, Hero raises to 100.5 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 76 BB

Alucard · Oct 23, 2017

Don't worry about the red line so much. Next thing that'd happen is you try to correct it by overbluffing & folding where you should be calling that would seriously affect the blue line.
You get more profit from your blue line than the red line. So stick to improving your plays & correcting your mistakes.
Most winning players' red lines are on the negative.
Go to 2+2 & take a look.
You are doing great. Stick to it.

Beanfacekilla · Oct 23, 2017

Supmargy said:
Some hands from this afternoon:

Hand 1: I don't know whether to fold this at some point or not. The guy just donks, so I don't really have that much info, and for a good while I know I probably have the best hand. So when would I fold if I do?

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 100.5 BB
SB: 116.5 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 21)
BB: 127.5 BB (VPIP: 4.17, PFR: 4.17, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 25)
UTG: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 20.78, PFR: 12.99, 3Bet Preflop: 5.71, Hands: 78)
CO: 119 BB (VPIP: 31.82, PFR: 22.73, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♥ Q♥

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) 4♥ Q♠ 6♠
SB bets 5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

Turn: (17 BB, 2 players) J♣
SB bets 12 BB, Hero calls 12 BB

River: (41 BB, 2 players) 2♠
SB bets 15 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

SB shows K♠ T♠ (Flush, King High)
(Pre 39%, Flop 45%, Turn 39%)
Hero mucks A♥ Q♥ (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 61%, Flop 55%, Turn 61%)
SB wins 68.5 BB

Hand 2: I don't know about this one either. It feels like a 50/50 (maybe even worse) to me when considering his range. I did not want to take the risk.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 102 BB (VPIP: 20.65, PFR: 14.13, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 94)
BB: 113 BB (VPIP: 22.35, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 86)
UTG: 87 BB (VPIP: 48.45, PFR: 4.12, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 97)
CO: 70.5 BB (VPIP: 23.60, PFR: 16.85, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 89)
Hero (BTN): 147.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♥ Q♥

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB raises to 10 BB, fold, Hero calls 7 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 2 players) Q♠ 5♠ 5♣
SB bets 13.5 BB, fold

SB wins 20.5 BB

Hand 3: QQ+ is definitely in his range, and I don't feel like he would bet AQ+ vs 2 villains unless they were clubs. So I folded. Good fold or not?

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 102 BB (VPIP: 22.09, PFR: 19.77, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, Hands: 87)
SB: 105.5 BB (VPIP: 25.76, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 67)
Hero (BB): 211 BB
UTG: 97.5 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
MP: 109 BB (VPIP: 14.14, PFR: 14.14, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 104)
CO: 113.5 BB (VPIP: 27.08, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 50)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♣ J♦

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 8 BB, MP calls 6 BB

Flop: (27.5 BB, 3 players) 9♣ 8♣ 7♠
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets 14 BB, fold, fold

CO wins 26.5 BB

Hand 4: Do I miss value when I reraise here? I felt like he was chasing a flush, and didn't want him to get there. So I gave him the wrong odds to call.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP): 119.5 BB
CO: 198.5 BB (VPIP: 25.53, PFR: 17.02, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 47)
BTN: 49 BB (VPIP: 7.14, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 29)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
BB: 116.5 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
UTG: 206 BB (VPIP: 21.54, PFR: 18.46, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 66)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 2♣ 2♥

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, SB raises to 8 BB, fold, Hero calls 5 BB

Flop: (17 BB, 2 players) 7♣ T♣ 2♠
SB bets 11 BB, Hero calls 11 BB

Turn: (39 BB, 2 players) K♦
SB bets 20 BB, Hero raises to 100.5 BB and is all-in, fold

Hero wins 76 BB

Ah-Qh: Raise flop. We have TP+BDFD. He rarely has anything better than a FD.

Raise flop 15-20 BB, prob overbet jam turn.

Qh-Jh: fold pre. Guy is not deep enough to call and speculate.

J-J: calling pre is ok, it's a risk. We are calling cold, if MP 4b we just hate it. NH after flop. Nice fold.

2-2.... unfortunately, the king bad card for his range probably. I would personally C/R flop probably. Bet turn after that. It's just unlucky he prob had air or JJ/QQ, and he folded. I think you did ok, he can easily have AK here as well. Just unlucky he folded. Nothing wrong with line as played.

Edit we do have awkward stack size on the turn. Shove too big, raise leaves us with goofy amount back. I think raise flop 2.5x makes this a little easier, but still it's whatever.

Supmargy · Oct 24, 2017

Beanfacekilla said:
Ah-Qh: Raise flop. We have TP+BDFD. He rarely has anything better than a FD.

Raise flop 15-20 BB, prob overbet jam turn.

Qh-Jh: fold pre. Guy is not deep enough to call and speculate.

Thanks! I never know what good spots are to reraise.

QJ: i didnt know you take stack sizes into consideration when we/they have >100bb. (thats what you mean with "deep" right?)
Do you have articles or a few concepts to share?

braveslice · Oct 24, 2017

Regarding Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♥ Q♥, Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) 4♥ Q♠ 6♠

Beanfacekilla said:
Ah-Qh: Raise flop. We have TP+BDFD. He rarely has anything better than a FD.

Q1: Would you raise with TP only? Or do you count BDFD has value in case we are playing for stacks?
Q2: Would you say we got 2 streets of value and lost minimum on the river and result wise we can’t be unhappy.
Q3: Given raising strong hands is quite much more common on 2NL than draws, especially given we are against not loose player, I assume we just happily fold if we get reraised?

I have never understood when to raise these.

Fernando2904 · Oct 24, 2017

It's hard sometimes..

Beanfacekilla · Oct 24, 2017

Supmargy said:
Thanks! I never know what good spots are to reraise.

QJ: i didnt know you take stack sizes into consideration when we/they have >100bb. (thats what you mean with "deep" right?)
Do you have articles or a few concepts to share?

He has 102 BB. The re-raise is to 10 BB.

So we have to call another 7 BB....

There is a rule I kinda go by....

The 10/20/30 rule.
10 to 1 odds with small PP minimum
20 to 1 odds with suited connectors minimum
30 to 1 odds with suited gappers minimum

So, this guy should have 140 BB back after 3b to call here. We could 4b, if we think he's out of line, and put him to the test.... but just calling with QJs is pretty speculative. We are going to fold 2/3 of the time post flop.

Beanfacekilla · Oct 24, 2017

braveslice said:
Regarding Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♥ Q♥, Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) 4♥ Q♠ 6♠

Q1: Would you raise with TP only? Or do you count BDFD has value in case we are playing for stacks?
Q2: Would you say we got 2 streets of value and lost minimum on the river and result wise we can’t be unhappy.
Q3: Given raising strong hands is quite much more common on 2NL than draws, especially given we are against not loose player, I assume we just happily fold if we get reraised?

I have never understood when to raise these.

Q1: I would raise this guy TP only. Until I see proof his donk bets are anything other than flush draws or weak made hands, he is not setting his own price to draw. Donk Bet are nearly always some sort of draws, or some shitty 1p hand. But, board texture has to be taken into consideration. On this board, this time, I raise this guy here on this flop. Things we consider are....

The Qs is on board. He can't have a hand like Qs-10s. TP+FD. There is one heart. We raise this guy, he calls. Turn is a heart, we give him the business. As long as the turn isn't a spade, he getting the business. People donk bet with flush draws so often man. It's like so common place. I just punish them.

Q2: I guess but no. We should be putting him right in the cage here. However, you didn't put a chip in bad until the river. The board changed, he is still betting. River is a clear cut fold. But I would raise flop probably 20 BB, and try to jam turn if possible. He is getting PSB on the turn, but that leaves us with a goofy stack left over, so prob just shove turn after raising flop. I've just seen this spot too often. People always do this with flush draws. And they don't fold. So I just raise and give them a terrible price on the turn, if they call, they make huge mistake. Even if they get there, it's whatever man, they played terribly we played well and most of the time they miss and get whacked.

Q3: if he clicks it back on the flop, yeah we need to decide. Most will not do that with a draw. They just call. Read based, but yeah I probably fold in that case. Depends. Read and image based.

Supmargy · Oct 24, 2017

Thanks Beanfacekilla! I did not know that. I'll try to integrate that in my play

Had another session just now. I overplayed pocket pairs at some point, while I haven't in other sessions, and you can see it in my red line.
Overall it was decent, but wasn't playing optimally as I'm still sick.
Cash BR from 63.24$ to 65.55$

Hand 1: I hesitated on the turn to rejam and decided against it. Would it have been the correct play? I think it would be because only a couple of combos of QT would beat us.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 111 BB (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)
Hero (UTG): 178.5 BB
MP: 121 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 22.58, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, Hands: 129)
CO: 15 BB (VPIP: 73.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)
BTN: 223 BB (VPIP: 36.59, PFR: 32.93, 3Bet Preflop: 13.79, Hands: 83)
SB: 195.5 BB (VPIP: 21.92, PFR: 17.81, 3Bet Preflop: 4.94, Hands: 228)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:diamond: T:heart:

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, CO calls 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (12.5 BB, 4 players) 8:diamond: J:spade: 9:heart:
BB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets 9 BB, fold, Hero calls 9 BB, CO raises to 12 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

Turn: (48.5 BB, 3 players) 7:diamond:
Hero checks, BTN bets 47 BB, Hero calls 47 BB

River: (142.5 BB, 3 players) A:heart:
Hero checks, BTN checks

Hero shows A:diamond: T:heart: (Straight, Jack High)
(Pre 32%, Flop 21%, Turn 69%)
CO mucks Q:club: K:club: (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 36%, Flop 11%, Turn 7%)
BTN mucks 9:club: 9:diamond: (Three of a Kind, Nines)
(Pre 32%, Flop 68%, Turn 24%)
Hero wins 137.5 BB

Beanfacekilla · Oct 24, 2017

I don't know much about 6 max. I know I fold A-10o anything earlier than HJ in FR.

I think open probably ok.

After the flop, I like the check here. I am unsure what to do after that. We can call here we get a decent price, but we shouldn't be getting paid a lot on 4 straight run outs, but we get there on turn. I am unsure on turn what to do. Really bad bet (but results oriented too) by V here on the turn.

I guess I probably just call like you did. I dunno man. We are so deep, and this guy is betting, he should know damn well he isn't gonna get a call unless you have 10x.....

This one is a tough spot. And if we call turn, and board pairs OTR, and he jams, yeah it's just gross.

I guess one could argue just shoving turn? But we chop so often, and lose sometimes, and fold him out other times. Very tough spot indeed.

I think I am fine with how you played it, but given you went 4w to the flop, is your table calling alot pre? If that's the case, I think we need to open larger or even fold pre. We don't want to go MW with A-10o.

We kind of need someone who is better at HA than I am for this one I think, someone who knows 6max better.

Supmargy · Oct 24, 2017

ATo is not something I generally open raise with UTG, but i did it in this case because CO is a fish and I dont mind exceeding my opening range slightly to get in a pot with him. I got more careful when the BTN called, but since the flop and turn went my way... I had him on Tx or a set, QTs was possible but not likely. Well I still dont really know whether a shove would have been better. I think the odds were in my favor, but both lines pf play were probably all right.
If he had a set, he might fold if we shove. If we dont shove, And the board pairs we can still fold on the river if he jams.

Supmargy · Oct 26, 2017

Hi all!

Haven't posted but I have been playing quite a few hands.
Tuesday night I got bad beat after bad beat in 200-300 hands, and ragequit because I tilted. Lost around 4$ in that short session.

So yesterday I played almost 3000 hands, but went break even (0.2$ win). I tried to multitable with 8-10 tables open, and used a hotkey to fold. Made only 2 or 3 accidental folds.

Today I payed some more and it went all right (8 tables again). 1.5$ win approximately.

The thing with 8 tables is that i kinda play on automatic pilot, and can't really assess the situation well. So I probably made some mistakes. I'm gonna start hand reviewing now while eating a bit.

I'll be posting hands in an hour or so.

Cash bankroll went from 65.55$ to approximately 63.50$

Alucard · Oct 26, 2017

Don't fret so much. Bad days happen.
But that red line seems a bit downwards
You are getting value out of your hands but at the same time perhaps bluffing & getting caught too much? Or chasing draws??
I can barely 8 table. Like you said you play like a robot without accessing information too much.
Those days the time banks were much larger so people could multitable easily
If you are loosing, take a wash relax a bit & come back to the tables.
I've had the similar kind of thing where I tried to grind the losses playing too many hands & ends up break even or loosing.
Pretty damn frustrating.

The best thing to do when you loose is let that money go away from your mind.
When you loose it's no longer your money. You only have what you got right now. So you ain't coming back to win back the losses, you are coming back to win more.

Supmargy · Oct 26, 2017

Hand 1: I feel like check on the turn, or as played a fold on the river would have been better.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 89 BB (VPIP: 9.76, PFR: 4.88, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 43)
UTG: 86 BB (VPIP: 30.43, PFR: 17.39, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
CO: 98 BB (VPIP: 25.49, PFR: 18.63, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 106)
Hero (BTN): 104 BB
SB: 92.5 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:spade: J:club:

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) Q:club: 4:diamond: 3:heart:
SB checks, Hero bets 5 BB, SB calls 5 BB

Turn: (17 BB, 2 players) 8:club:
SB checks, Hero bets 11 BB, SB raises to 22 BB, Hero calls 11 BB

River: (61 BB, 2 players) 2:diamond:
SB bets 30 BB, Hero calls 30 BB

SB shows 3:club: 3:spade: (Three of a Kind, Threes)
(Pre 50%, Flop 98%, Turn 100%)
Hero mucks Q:spade: J:club: (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 50%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
SB wins 117 BB

Hand 2: Fold preflop? He has a 3bet% of 0 after 94 hands.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 101 BB (VPIP: 19.57, PFR: 14.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 94)
Hero (BTN): 152 BB
SB: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 25.81, PFR: 19.35, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 31)
BB: 156.5 BB (VPIP: 35.71, PFR: 24.29, 3Bet Preflop: 3.45, Hands: 73)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:diamond: Q:club:

CO raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, CO raises to 28.5 BB, Hero calls 19.5 BB

Flop: (58.5 BB, 2 players) 9:diamond: 7:diamond: 5:club:
CO bets 28.5 BB, fold

CO wins 56.5 BB

Rational Madman · Oct 26, 2017

I believe 7 tabling is the maximum the brain can handle and will be sticking to 7 myself. 8 pushes too far I honestly think this.

Supmargy · Oct 26, 2017

Rational Madman said:
I believe 7 tabling is the maximum the brain can handle and will be sticking to 7 myself. 8 pushes too far I honestly think this.

Well you play many more hands than I do, so I'll allow myself to play more tables. It does need some practice.

Supmargy · Oct 26, 2017

Took a break, ate, did some hand review. Adjusted my gameplan a bit in specific situations, and had a really good short session. 8-9 tables.

700 hands, 6$ win approximately. I hit the board quite often and there were lots of fish.

I'm going to take a break now. might play some more later tonight. Depends when my wife comes home.

Cash bankroll from 63.50$ to approximately 70$.

Supmargy · Oct 26, 2017

Alucard said:
Don't fret so much. Bad days happen.
But that red line seems a bit downwards
You are getting value out of your hands but at the same time perhaps bluffing & getting caught too much? Or chasing draws??
I can barely 8 table. Like you said you play like a robot without accessing information too much.
Those days the time banks were much larger so people could multitable easily
If you are loosing, take a wash relax a bit & come back to the tables.
I've had the similar kind of thing where I tried to grind the losses playing too many hands & ends up break even or loosing.
Pretty damn frustrating.

The best thing to do when you loose is let that money go away from your mind.
When you loose it's no longer your money. You only have what you got right now. So you ain't coming back to win back the losses, you are coming back to win more.

Heh I didn't see your reply earlier. Must be because I was posting hands when you answered.
Red line was pretty bad because I realised during the hand review that I hit a few boards with top pair middle kicker (QJs, TJs from the BTN) quite a few times. So I had to fold those hands. I think I played decently given the fact that I couldn't make lots of decisions based on the person I was facing. Today I was a bit more in the zone and it got reflected in the graphs.

I've pretty much stopped bluffing at 2NL. It's just not worth it. Sure semibluffs in position, sometimes. But I don't double/triple barrel.

Beanfacekilla · Oct 26, 2017

Supmargy said:
Hand 1: I feel like check on the turn, or as played a fold on the river would have been better.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 89 BB (VPIP: 9.76, PFR: 4.88, 3Bet Preflop: 5.56, Hands: 43)
UTG: 86 BB (VPIP: 30.43, PFR: 17.39, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
CO: 98 BB (VPIP: 25.49, PFR: 18.63, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 106)
Hero (BTN): 104 BB
SB: 92.5 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q♠ J♣

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) Q♣ 4♦ 3♥
SB checks, Hero bets 5 BB, SB calls 5 BB

Turn: (17 BB, 2 players) 8♣
SB checks, Hero bets 11 BB, SB raises to 22 BB, Hero calls 11 BB

River: (61 BB, 2 players) 2♦
SB bets 30 BB, Hero calls 30 BB

SB shows 3♣ 3♠ (Three of a Kind, Threes)
(Pre 50%, Flop 98%, Turn 100%)
Hero mucks Q♠ J♣ (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 50%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
SB wins 117 BB

Hand 2: Fold preflop? He has a 3bet% of 0 after 94 hands.

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 101 BB (VPIP: 19.57, PFR: 14.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 94)
Hero (BTN): 152 BB
SB: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 25.81, PFR: 19.35, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 31)
BB: 156.5 BB (VPIP: 35.71, PFR: 24.29, 3Bet Preflop: 3.45, Hands: 73)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q♦ Q♣

CO raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, CO raises to 28.5 BB, Hero calls 19.5 BB

Flop: (58.5 BB, 2 players) 9♦ 7♦ 5♣
CO bets 28.5 BB, fold

CO wins 56.5 BB

Hand 1, Q-Jo...

Here is the min raise by our opponent again. We can maybe bet twice here, and check river. This is probably 2 street value hand tops.

But the min raise, I have seen this before in your hands. You have to find a fold. We can bet twice, but they are both bet/fold spots. If we are calling the min raise, we have to know we are behind here. Is he really gonna do this with Q-10 or worse? It's going to be 2p+ 95% of the time.

We bet until we have a reason to suspect we can't win. V came out and told you "yo man, I have 2p+, let's raise it up a little."

We could check turn as well. It depends on real time reads, opponent history. For the ease of play, I probably recommend betting flop, betting turn, checking river. If they have a better hand, they'll let you know.

Hand 2:

Huge 4b here. You are making a decision to call the 4b, for 20% of the effective stack. The odds aren't there to setmine. If we have a read V could do this with A high hands, maybe we call, and let him dust off his stack postflop.

However, I don't think Vs at these stakes are doing that often enough to call down. I personally fold to 4b. Next hand. He has to have KK+, IMVHO.

Beanfacekilla · Oct 26, 2017

And FWIW, I don't think you're ready for 7 tables or whatever, not yet.

These spots you post suggest you are still a bit of a lookup artist. Folding is probably one of, possibly the most important thing in HE. That's how we profit. We get away when we're beat, and we showdown winners most of the time.

Reduce number of tables while you continue to plug leaks, and learn when to surrender postflop automatically.

Supmargy · Oct 26, 2017

Thanks for the advice Bean!

I do have trouble folding minraises. they give us good odds, and there are often minraises made by fish to try to get you to fold when they have air. But I should probably learn to fold those until im sure they're fish.

I agree 8 tabling is a bit of a stretch at my level. I know there are still lots of leaks to find. I am glad I tried it out and saw that I'm not a losing player when I do it. I was thinking of maybe mixing it up a bit. I do find 8 tabling to be more fun, as there's more action. But I should probably just do one hour of 2-4 tabling to learn, and one hour of 8 tabling to have more fun. As long as I dont lose money I'm fine with it.

I am a lookup artist. you are absolutely right. Every session I feel confident and disciplined, I profit more.

Beanfacekilla · Oct 26, 2017

Supmargy said:
Thanks for the advice Bean!

I do have trouble folding minraises. they give us good odds, and there are often minraises made by fish to try to get you to fold when they have air. But I should probably learn to fold those until im sure they're fish.

I agree 8 tabling is a bit of a stretch at my level. I know there are still lots of leaks to find. I am glad I tried it out and saw that I'm not a losing player when I do it. I was thinking of maybe mixing it up a bit. I do find 8 tabling to be more fun, as there's more action. But I should probably just do one hour of 2-4 tabling to learn, and one hour of 8 tabling to have more fun. As long as I dont lose money I'm fine with it.

I am a lookup artist. you are absolutely right. Every session I feel confident and disciplined, I profit more.

Fixed statement bolded above. As long as I make good decisions I'm fine with it.

deyvsonflp · Oct 26, 2017

I'm trying to do the same. Learn before depositing. Good luck and sucess.

Let's try to become a winning player

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