duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
JCgrind
Legend
Silver Level
agree with your analysis about how the T changes the texture, but just feel that it makes us get paid off a lot less and when were called we just end up running into better hands wayyy more.
i kinda always went by 'in 3b pots, people either 1 and done their air or triple it'. granted im one of the very few that triples off air at 10/16nl, but based on that, i always assuymed that if i was calling turn i had to cross my fingers and call river?
i kinda always went by 'in 3b pots, people either 1 and done their air or triple it'. granted im one of the very few that triples off air at 10/16nl, but based on that, i always assuymed that if i was calling turn i had to cross my fingers and call river?
duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
agree with this is happens a ton, if they are checking back draws on rivers then it drastically affects their bluffing freq
people also dont fire off bluffs as often in 3bet/4bet pots relative to single raised pots, so aggregate bluffing frequencies drop a ton
Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
I think unless people are adjusting very well, and you always have a significant edge postflop, then by definition you can 3bet wider as stacks get deeper.
But that's just in theory. I think in practice it really depends on how much people are flatting, how well you can handle being OOP, etc. IP I think we clearly want to be 3betting a ton - just because we're deep doesn't mean people will be good at adjusting to playing a bunch of OOP 3bet pots. By the same token, we can probably maintain similar OOP 3bet ranges to normal, or at the very least, not widen them as much as we widen our IP 3bet ranges.
The "why," is something you already know ofc. SPR, blah blah blah. We can 3bet hands that we normally wouldn't because they can't handle seeing showdown at as high a frequency as they would have to in a 100bb ESS 3b pot.
But that's just in theory. I think in practice it really depends on how much people are flatting, how well you can handle being OOP, etc. IP I think we clearly want to be 3betting a ton - just because we're deep doesn't mean people will be good at adjusting to playing a bunch of OOP 3bet pots. By the same token, we can probably maintain similar OOP 3bet ranges to normal, or at the very least, not widen them as much as we widen our IP 3bet ranges.
The "why," is something you already know ofc. SPR, blah blah blah. We can 3bet hands that we normally wouldn't because they can't handle seeing showdown at as high a frequency as they would have to in a 100bb ESS 3b pot.
M
Menschlich
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Why no 3-bet on the flop?
duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
because he will play very well v a 3bet.
S
ScottishMatt
Legend
Silver Level
Not sure how else I would play it. I'm not used to deep play but I assume the flop is standard?
Gotta feel that he has some SDV. I'd probably bet like 50-60% pot OTR but it depends on whether deepstacked players are sick enough to turn a J into a bluff. So yeah, not sure about betsizing but I probably B/F and make it a pretty common size to try and balance.
S
ScottishMatt
Legend
Silver Level
Oh yeah. Been a while since I looked at a HH. The fact that it shows as BB and not $ is confusing as well.
It changes things somewhat.
I'm not sure how much value we can get, and his bluffing frequency when we check should be pretty small. Not that he is necessarily going to play optimally, however given his line we can assume he is just looking to give up on a bluff because that K was about the best card for him to barrel on. I'd probably put his range at KT/JT/TT for a river bet when checked to, possibly with a small % of bluffs but the spot is just so dumb for him to bluff at.
X/C doesn't seem a very appealing line to take here. What do we think about betting 50BB, hoping to get hero called some % of the time and hopefully inducing spazz the other times?
Really I think we have to check and try to take showdown, which should give us info enough to help us play against him in the future. Or. We can B/C and size it to about 1/3rd. The difference between us calling when we bet, and us folding when we check is critical IMO. His value range is going to be the exact same either way, however our bet is the one factor which might increase his bluffing frequency if we size it on the small side. Hopefully to the extent that we can profitably see showdown.
It changes things somewhat.
I'm not sure how much value we can get, and his bluffing frequency when we check should be pretty small. Not that he is necessarily going to play optimally, however given his line we can assume he is just looking to give up on a bluff because that K was about the best card for him to barrel on. I'd probably put his range at KT/JT/TT for a river bet when checked to, possibly with a small % of bluffs but the spot is just so dumb for him to bluff at.
X/C doesn't seem a very appealing line to take here. What do we think about betting 50BB, hoping to get hero called some % of the time and hopefully inducing spazz the other times?
Really I think we have to check and try to take showdown, which should give us info enough to help us play against him in the future. Or. We can B/C and size it to about 1/3rd. The difference between us calling when we bet, and us folding when we check is critical IMO. His value range is going to be the exact same either way, however our bet is the one factor which might increase his bluffing frequency if we size it on the small side. Hopefully to the extent that we can profitably see showdown.
duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
BB should make it easier?
I think c/c a small bet and c/f to a bigger one makes sense if we check, remember AK is still a part of his range and folding a chop does suck a lot, KQ is also a possible hand.
I think b/c isnt going to change their range much more than shoving so if we have enough equity to valuebet then it should be a shove
I think c/c a small bet and c/f to a bigger one makes sense if we check, remember AK is still a part of his range and folding a chop does suck a lot, KQ is also a possible hand.
I think b/c isnt going to change their range much more than shoving so if we have enough equity to valuebet then it should be a shove
duggs
Killing me softly
Silver Level
pokerstars - $0.25 Ante $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 18.03, PFR: 14.75, 3Bet Preflop: 6.06, Hands: 312)
UTG: 111.2 BB (VPIP: 29.46, PFR: 20.61, 3Bet Preflop: 12.09, Hands: 746)
CO: 279.36 BB (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 27.78, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 19)
Hero (BTN): 253.44 BB
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.19, PFR: 20.29, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 71)
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, 5 players post ante of 0.2 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has 8d 7d
fold, CO raises to 2.96 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 9.04 BB
Flop : (26.4 BB, 2 players) Kd 5c 6d
CO checks, Hero bets 17.12 BB, CO raises to 48 BB, Hero calls 30.88 BB
Turn : (122.4 BB, 2 players) As
CO bets 87 BB, Hero ???????
had a quick session today, really unsure on flop and turn action
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 18.03, PFR: 14.75, 3Bet Preflop: 6.06, Hands: 312)
UTG: 111.2 BB (VPIP: 29.46, PFR: 20.61, 3Bet Preflop: 12.09, Hands: 746)
CO: 279.36 BB (VPIP: 44.44, PFR: 27.78, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 19)
Hero (BTN): 253.44 BB
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 23.19, PFR: 20.29, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 71)
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, 5 players post ante of 0.2 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has 8d 7d
fold, CO raises to 2.96 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 9.04 BB
Flop : (26.4 BB, 2 players) Kd 5c 6d
CO checks, Hero bets 17.12 BB, CO raises to 48 BB, Hero calls 30.88 BB
Turn : (122.4 BB, 2 players) As
CO bets 87 BB, Hero ???????
had a quick session today, really unsure on flop and turn action
Mr Sandbag
Legend
Silver Level
Unless villain had a set or some higher diamond draw, you were a favorite to win the hand. Why not 3bet?
As played, call turn. You're getting a decent price to draw out.
Mr Sandbag
Legend
Silver Level
KQ maybe?
I don't know. If he does have a set, though, you are still getting pretty good odds on the turn to make the call.