Stalling as a strategy?

[whiteboy]

Pride and dignity are very much a part of poker because they are a part of life in everything you do. Your analogy about the gun is irrelevant in this case, one thing is about a game and the other is about your continued existence in this world.

By making those statements I will guess that you are one of the Kids I was talking about in one of my previous posts. I can tell because the ideas that I put forth seem to be completely over your head.

You said : "i would rather go home with something than nothing, but i dunno that may be my "pride" speaking". That statement is the exact thing I am talking about. You would rather strive for mediocrity while sacrificing your dignity and pride, rather than play with pride and dignity and maybe go out before winning "something". You sound like one of the Kids who wants a reward for showing up and not for actually accomplishing something substantial.

Maybe there are way more ball busting mommies out there who have sucked all of the pride out of the daddies and they don't know how to teach their children pride, dignity and self respect. Just a thought.

i have an example for you...

2 more people till the bubble, and you have 1 chip left. the average chipstack is 25000. now according to you, we should go all-in and, as you suggest, try to "win it all." good luck with that! i'm using all my time and folding until the blinds inevitably come my way. and you think i'm some kind of kid who doesn't know how to live life?

and by the way, you should leave your pride on the floor when playing poker. it makes you play worse. you should read the poker mindest

 

[FatBasset]

I guess some of you guys never play satellites or sngs where the cash prize is the same for everyone. It doesn't make sense to let the short stacks see more hands at less espensive blind levels if they are only one or two that need to be elimnated. There are certain circumstances when "stalling" or playing slow can be a powerful tool to help eliminate the short stacks.

For the "pride" and "dignity" posts. Poker is a game about winning money period. It is not an athletic competition, etc. Get over yourself.

 

[GSpicoli]

i have an example for you...

2 more people till the bubble, and you have 1 chip left. the average chipstack is 25000. now according to you, we should go all-in and, as you suggest, try to "win it all." good luck with that! i'm using all my time and folding until the blinds inevitably come my way. and you think i'm some kind of kid who doesn't know how to live life?

and by the way, you should leave your pride on the floor when playing poker. it makes you play worse. you should read the poker mindest

Another example of the kids that just don't get it.

That is a horrible example: eventually you are going to have to go all in. Eventually the blinds are going to hit you and you will be all-in so why not wait for a decent hand before the blinds come back around and then commit your chip. My problem is with people who stall for time hoping and praying that they make the cash when extremely short stacked all they are doing is delaying the inevitable.

For the record you don't need to leave your pride at the door when you play poker. You need to leave your ego at the door, there is a huge difference. Your ego is what will get the best of you at the table.

 

[FatBasset]

That is not what I am saying at all. Pay attention I don't know if I will be able to break this down any more plainly for you. Play like you have heart and like you are not afraid to lose. Like I said before, I would rather go out on the bubble than play in a way that takes away from who I am and the way I think I should compete. If I make the cash and I don't win I'm fine with that knowing that I played every hand in a manner that I feel didn't cheapen what I accomplished.

To me, I hear you saying "It doesn't matter how I play, it is the end result that matters". That attitude is the farthest thing from where I stand and what I believe.

I have been involved with sports and competition all my life. I was taught that if I leave everything I have out on the field then I have nothing to hang my head down about regardless of the outcome. If I am stalling to make the cash (striving for mediocrity), hoping that the last couple of people get busted before I do then I see that as a personal loss. If I am waiting for other people to lose as opposed to playing to win then it is a personal loss. In that case I didn't leave everything out on the field and I have something to hang my head about even if I win.

I hope that is plain enough english for you.

Any of the teams you ever play on try to "run" out the clock when they had the lead? If you ever played football, then your comments are idiotic because the whole idea behind a "running" team is that they domintate the clock to prevent their opponents from having an opportunity to win. Using the "clock" in poker is no different.

 

[GSpicoli]

I guess that some people don't understand that if people are forced to see more hands the more likely they are to get busted out, not the other way around. If the short stack is forced to see the blinds every 5 minutes as opposed to every 15 minutes the more likely they will get busted earlier.

 

[Hambone8705]

Pride and dignity are very much a part of poker because they are a part of life in everything you do. Your analogy about the gun is irrelevant in this case, one thing is about a game and the other is about your continued existence in this world.

By making those statements I will guess that you are one of the Kids I was talking about in one of my previous posts. I can tell because the ideas that I put forth seem to be completely over your head.

You said : "i would rather go home with something than nothing, but i dunno that may be my "pride" speaking". That statement is the exact thing I am talking about. You would rather strive for mediocrity while sacrificing your dignity and pride, rather than play with pride and dignity and maybe go out before winning "something". You sound like one of the Kids who wants a reward for showing up and not for actually accomplishing something substantial.

Maybe there are way more ball busting mommies out there who have sucked all of the pride out of the daddies and they don't know how to teach their children pride, dignity and self respect. Just a thought.

Can we please not cloud up the threads with personal attacks at other members that have nothing at all to do with the original post. I believe this thread was started to discuss whether or not stalling was an effective strategy. Your first post was enough, a little excessive but enough. There is no need to go on trying to put in cheap shots and personally attacking other members just because you got beat up in school. Who cares? Not me!!! Let it go. There is no need to post 7 different replies in the same thread. This is evident since by the last one you were reduced to defending your own idea on how much "pride and dignity" you think you have. Just make your comments about the topic at hand and move on. If you've got more to say, you have the ability to start another thread. I don't think your opinion of how many "ball busting mommies" there are or whether or not your "pride and dignity" will let you live a life of "mediocracy" have anything at all to do with poker. And there is no need to come back with cheap shots at me on here because unlike you I have better things to do with my time than to comment in this thread 7 times, so I am (as should you) am moving on to the next one. So I won't be back to read them.

 

[wooo]

RIVERBOATRAT
I only did it to get started
Now i play mainly $10 sngs
If you think i come across as a parasite thats fine
I guess my above post i was being a bit smart arse
However i think whatever works in fine
Poker is a game of skill luck and putting people on tilt
When you sit down to a game there are no rules / your at war with the other players anything goes
And evryone is at a differant skill level
It is what makes poker so much fun
To say it is wronge for someone to play in a way that you dont like is just silly
Anyway i do not play like that anymore lol
Good luck at the tables

 

[GSpicoli]

Any of the teams you ever play on try to "run" out the clock when they had the lead? If you ever played football, then your comments are idiotic because the whole idea behind a "running" team is that they domintate the clock to prevent their opponents from having an opportunity to win. Using the "clock" in poker is no different.

Once again another horrible example by the children in the peanut gallery. When I lead in a poker game I want to play more hands so the blinds come to the short stacks sooner rather than later. More blinds seen more likely to get busted. If the shortys double up they are shrinking someone elses stack and making them more likely to get busted.

 

[Makwa]

I guess some of you guys never play satellites or sngs where the cash prize is the same for everyone. It doesn't make sense to let the short stacks see more hands at less espensive blind levels if they are only one or two that need to be elimnated. There are certain circumstances when "stalling" or playing slow can be a powerful tool to help eliminate the short stacks.

For the "pride" and "dignity" posts. Poker is a game about winning money period. It is not an athletic competition, etc. Get over yourself.

Any of the teams you ever play on try to "run" out the clock when they had the lead? If you ever played football, then your comments are idiotic because the whole idea behind a "running" team is that they domintate the clock to prevent their opponents from having an opportunity to win. Using the "clock" in poker is no different.

Man. for a hound u r pretty smart (I like hounds, but not the smartest dogs IMHO). You are right on here. The sports analogy to running out the clock I hope appeals to the jock competitors here; as for the first example (which I failed to elaborate on) you are exactly right. In the 70 FPP buyin satellites for example, at stars, you either win an $11 ticket or nothing, so playing slow can sometimes be an effective tool.
I think all these peeps talking about 'honour' and 'dignity' are wasting a lot of good poker playing time. We are here to win. The sites gave us a clock to use. So use it at your discretion, it is your prerogative.
Most of the morally superior arguments are laughable here, they do not belong in a game of skill, strategy, and ruthlesness. Amen.
BTW GS before you start with the 'children' or 'kids' jibes here, I am 54. Go figure. Can call me an old fool if it makes u feel better (superior). I'm only a 'mediocre' winner I admit, but I win.

 

[riverboatrat]

RIVERBOATRAT
I only did it to get started
Now i play mainly $10 sngs
If you think i come across as a parasite thats fine
I guess my above post i was being a bit smart arse
However i think whatever works in fine
Poker is a game of skill luck and putting people on tilt
When you sit down to a game there are no rules / your at war with the other players anything goes
And evryone is at a differant skill level
It is what makes poker so much fun
To say it is wronge for someone to play in a way that you dont like is just silly
Anyway i do not play like that anymore lol
Good luck at the tables

;-) no problem.

I only said that because you were being a bit condescending.

gl at the tables

 

[pdutty]

I was reading this thread and timed out on my table ... LOL

 

[wolfstew]

It is a pretty weak way to play. If ya a big chip stack and you feel you must stall in order to have the advantage then ya really dont have that much faith in your game to begin with.

 

[Makwa]

It is a pretty weak way to play. If ya a big chip stack and you feel you must stall in order to have the advantage then ya really dont have that much faith in your game to begin with.

Read above re big stack play, yes it is not +EV (actually, it could be, if you are one or two away from bubble in big field). But under some other conditions (read above) it is!

 

[Makwa]

I was reading this thread and timed out on my table ... LOL

What a weak, dishonorable, mediocre way to go! I hope you apologized... And scooped a pot later on!

Just kidding almost. Allow me to elaborate. A key to success in MTTs is keeping track of position, bubble, stacks, and blinds. Myself I will help games go faster or slower depending on how I see things, variables most of which you know. I have seen Doyle Brunson run time at a tourney; it is part of the game. To say it is weak or mediocre is plain wrong; it is a game and you want to control all the factors you can to your advantage.

 

[xxxgandhi666]

when 40 people to go for then bubble every1 plays i stop playing to get tight image when 10 people left for the money and every1 starts stalling i am gona play more and get those blinds raise more cause people are scared to be the bubble boy or girl

exemple u are in tourney 50 places payed when there are 100 dont play build tight iamge 60 left start playing like crazy raise with 76 suit only people with AK ot some thing like that call u get lo flop ur master and most of the pots that u raise will never be seen by any 1 then u climb from 40th place to top 10 then when ur in the money play very tight again cause people start playin again they not scared any more to go out

 

[KingCurtis]

any "real" mtt player with a large stack would do the complete opposite and get more aggressive. As a good friend of mine and I say....F@$% cashing, go for the win!

 

[dwolfg]

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Sometimes it is better to retreat. If you are shortstacked and have little hope of making it deep, then, imo, it is acceptable to stall.

 

[Wilko89911]

Its not against the rules, but its bloody annoying. I must admit I have "stalled" whilst being very short stacked and close to the bubble. However I dont really see the point in stalling whilst chip leader. If you are happy simple being ITM them by all means do it, however you should really be bullying the smaller stacks that are choosing to stall themselves. The only situation i could justify adopting this strategy (if thats what I can call it) is during a sattelite where the top X amount of players recive tickets.

 

[Wilko89911]

Its not against the rules, but its bloody annoying. I must admit I have "stalled" whilst being very short stacked and close to the bubble. However I dont really see the point in stalling whilst chip leader. If you are happy simple being ITM them by all means do it, however you should really be bullying the smaller stacks who are choosing to "stall" themselves. The only situation I could justify adopting this strategy whilst chip leader is during a sattelite where the top X amount of players receive tickets.

 

[islandtime2]

So called stalling does not bother me. You have x amount of time to play your hand or you are automatically folded. Some folks take more time then others. WIth blinds going up there are pros and cons of taking more time or less time. Just part of the game. We have turbo and ultra turbo tournies with faster and faster escalating blinds, maybe the sites should also have tournies with shorter decision clocks for the folks that are really annoyed by longer decision times ?

 

[mfturq]

Maybe I'm just trying to explain pride and dignity to a bunch of young kids. The kids that have started to come of age in the last 10 years. Kids that got a trophy or award just for participating in an activity. Kids that never performed a physical activity without a helmet and knee pads. Kids who never left their house because they were too busy playing video games. Kids that were sheltered from the harsh realities of life and the world by their parents. Kids that think getting the reward makes them a winner. Kids that strive for mediocrity instead of being extraordinary and don't know the difference. Kids who are told that they are special everyday when in fact they are just "special". Kids that have an over-inflated ego and self-worth when in fact they haven't done anything to deserve such a thing. Kids who are going to grow-up just to be another person that gets in the way of those of us who are trying to get shit done.

When I was growing up I had to learn how to do things well to get an award or trophy. I got laughed at and teased when I wasn't good at things, it just motivated me to get better so I could laugh at those who I surpassed along the way. When I played sports as a kid I only got a trophy for winning not for just participating. The only helmet and pads I had as a kid were for football, I had to go out and experience pain to learn my lesson about things I should and shouldn't do. My parents used to spank me when I was a little asshole, and I deserved it everytime. I just wish I wanted children so I could spank them the way I was as a kid.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you had dignity you would play the same before the bubble as you do after it. The ends don't always justify the means. Stop taking the easy road. Learn the difference between earning your wins and twisting the rules to the breaking point for a cheap win. Everytime you play like that you sacrifice a little piece of yourself that you can never get back. So take the loss, chalk it up to a learning experience and never try to do it again.

Not such a dignified post imo

 

[mfturq]

Good point. But there are situations where it is definitely +EV.

I def agree with this...just not with the limited information that the OP provided. It seems like we are talking about stalling as a strategy overall and I thought he was talking about becoming chip leader and using this as a strategy.

 

[mfturq]

Maybe there are way more ball busting mommies out there who have sucked all of the pride out of the daddies and they don't know how to teach their children pride, dignity and self respect. Just a thought.

Are you the leader of the Cobra Kai from the original Karate Kid?

 

[GSpicoli]

Not such a dignified post imo

How is it undignified? I see it as a fact from the observances I have made in my daily life. This is the way I see a certain group of people. Soft people.

The first comment you highlighted is funny if you read it without your nose in the air. I guess my dry and sarcastic humor doesn't translate very well to the written word. Oh well.

The second comment you highlighted was just pooly worded. My comment was supposed to read more like "it just motivated me to get better so I could return the laughs of the people who laughed at me as I surpassed them." I'm not writing that as I would handle that as a 35 y/o man, I am writing that the way I would have handled that as the kid who was laughed at for not being good at something. Kids are cruel and immature things are said and done by them. What are you going to do?

BTW, what you said could be construed as a personal attack against me. I am not making threats. Just letting you know that apparently if you make any kind of comment about another member, that can be taken out of its original context, you will be given an infraction by the mods. I received an infraction for allededly attacking people in this thread. But, in fact I never did any such thing and my words were taken out of context and other people attached invisible meaning to the words which weren't there or intended.

 

[WurlyQ]

I've seen stalling on the bubble with an exceptionally short stack work numerous times so I wouldn't say it's delaying the inevitable.

That being said, I generally find myself highly annoyed by this antic and always hate "bubble time" of any tournament.