***October SNG Thread***

[WiZZiM]

The question you've gotta ask: is reraising to 200 or something similar really going to isolate this pot? Especially at the lower levels, people quite often call in late position if they have the chips to afford it, and everyone here can still easily afford this.

General thought is when someone raises from UTG+1 they have a "good hand." That means you'd probably expect people to have 99+ or AJ+ on a table full of donks(there are certainly exceptions but we try not to focus on them). 99-JJ we're good against, but if we don't reraise enough we're giving him proper odds to draw to a set. QQ-AA we split with or are way behind. AJ-AQ we're happy against, but still no better than a 65/35 if we were to get it all in right now. AK we're coinflipping against and will almost always reship preflop thusly forcing a coinflip. Also, the hands like 99-JJ that we're actually nicely ahead of and would call a raise, will still probably pays us off on a lot of flops without an A or K.

*edit*

Another thing, we're still really early on in this SNG where everyone is assumed to be bad. Usually the worse the players are in a 9 man SNG, the more reason there is to avoid conflict and large pots and wait a little as they knock one another out.

Yeah this makes total sense. Sometimes i get in the habit, good or bad, of coming up with a standard way to play a hand, making it easier for multitabling and whatever. My play with Queens early was to always flat behind an early/tight raiser, then for some reason, after playing micros for so long, changed it up and started 3betting a lot more. Anyways it makes total sense to me, we still gain a lot of equity if the flop comes low, and we can get away cheap if the board is scary.

The only problem i see with flatting is that it invites more players behind in, so when we decide to go nuts postflop on a low board, it's going to be more likely that we're going to be outdrawn, but the pro's of flatting definately outweigh the cons of it. And as 'good' players, we want to be playing smaller pots for the most part.

Just a few questions out of curiosity, lets say the raise comes from a stealing position, the hijack or CO, are we flatting behind there, obviously from the SB/BB we'd want to be 3betting?

Also, something that drives me insane about forums and the posters is raising OOP with AK. Lets say, 2 bad players limp, we're in the SB with AK, my standard play there is to complete and take a flop, a lot of people suggest that completing is horrible. To me, it makes sense to just check, play a smaller pot OOP, as opposed to bloating it, when we're likely not to get any folds. What are your thoughts on this.

Oh, BTW, welcome to our humble SNG thread, It seems Team moshman is taking over, perhaps i should invite DieBanksters in here .

 

[Bwammo]

Just a few questions out of curiosity, lets say the raise comes from a stealing position, the hijack or CO, are we flatting behind there, obviously from the SB/BB we'd want to be 3betting?

If the raise is coming from LP, that means we, too, are in LP...which changes everything. Stack dynamics and player tendencies are necessary for a more precise play but flatting and reraising are both possibilities. Flatting against tight raisers, reraising against looser ones and whatnot.

Also, something that drives me insane about forums and the posters is raising OOP with AK. Lets say, 2 bad players limp, we're in the SB with AK, my standard play there is to complete and take a flop, a lot of people suggest that completing is horrible. To me, it makes sense to just check, play a smaller pot OOP, as opposed to bloating it, when we're likely not to get any folds. What are your thoughts on this.

Certainly depends on stack sizes but I lean towards limping as well, that or shoving. Raising creates all kinds of problems postflop.

 

[Logan2]

very interesting discussion I'm seeing on the QQ spot btw. I agree that AA and KK are in a different category than QQ, but I don't know if it's always as weak as JJ either. What conditions would have to change for us to 3-bet?

We should ask to let post hands again in here, is way easy to follow the topic, when hands are posted apart i read a hand and kind of never see the topic again, at least i find more interesting this way, i know about make more forum interact and all that but just saying.

 

[cjatud2012]

time to play teh pokahs.

(translation: time to donate to the happy community at pokerstars)

 

[WiZZiM]

time to play teh pokahs.

(translation: time to donate to the happy community at Pokerstars)

I'm railing while eating lunch

 

[cjatud2012]

I'm railing while eating lunch

lol well this might be embarrassing then,

 

[cjatud2012]

sweet, 10:1 chip advantage headup, then I lose three hands later, I run good

 

[WiZZiM]

I would have waited for that J2s shove with 5.5BB's till the next hand, we're likely to get something better, and with the BB sitting out, it's a perfect spot to jam anytwo blind next hand.

 

[cjatud2012]

I would have waited for that J2s shove with 5.5BB's till the next hand, we're likely to get something better, and with the BB sitting out, it's a perfect spot to jam anytwo blind next hand.

Hah, if only I were paying closer attention, I'm obviously in a +EV state of mind

 

[cjatud2012]

weeee I'm on Skype now if you wanna make fun of me lol.

 

[WiZZiM]

Finally getting happier with my game. Move up to the 6's has gone pretty well, starting to feel as comfortable as playing the micros now. Finally my distribution is looking sexy again, though i need to work over some bubble spots still. But compare that to the 2 months beforehand, and i think it's all on the right track .


And yes, my MS Paint skills are pretty awesome. And yes, i do have too much time on my hands.

 

[Rldetheflop]

man I wish I had Hem instead of PT3 I want to know what my distribution is also when I try to filter to stt's only it shows ive played like less than 50 for the month when I have played almost 300.

 

[cjatud2012]

man I wish I had Hem instead of PT3 I want to know what my distribution is also when I try to filter to stt's only it shows ive played like less than 50 for the month when I have played almost 300.

Have you played a mix of turbos and non-turbos? I know different STT's have different names, so if you've played many different types you may need to include each type in your filter.

Also, for your finish distribution with PT3 you can go to their website and go to the repository, you can find it under "Get More" on the left side of the page. Just download it, then import it with PT3 from wherever you save it to, I think you need to go to the Reports tab on PT3 to do this.

 

[Rldetheflop]

Have you played a mix of turbos and non-turbos? I know different STT's have different names, so if you've played many different types you may need to include each type in your filter.

Also, for your finish distribution with PT3 you can go to their website and go to the repository, you can find it under "Get More" on the left side of the page. Just download it, then import it with PT3 from wherever you save it to, I think you need to go to the Reports tab on PT3 to do this.

good lord no I dont think I will ever play non turbos again. Funny thing is when the year started i began playing 6.50 turbos and was smoking but I hit a downswing and it really affected my game I ran into an old reg I used to play a lot with who when we played together regularly seemed to be on about the same skill level as me. Well he was tearing it up I believe he is currently second in the 5-15 dollar level for and 1st for the 2-5 dollar 9 or 10 man tables on sharkscope but anyway he suggested i go back to regular speed tables so I did and pretty much spawned a 6 month break even streak. then I realized regular speed isnt my game too much post flop play. Now I am back to turbos and playing well again and I aint never goin back!!

 

[Rldetheflop]

Also, for your finish distribution with PT3 you can go to their website and go to the repository, you can find it under "Get More" on the left side of the page. Just download it, then import it with PT3 from wherever you save it to, I think you need to go to the Reports tab on PT3 to do this.

Awesome was easy enough thx.

 

[pat3392]

Sorry for reviving a old hand, can't help it

And when im 4 bet this is a clear fold right? Even if he had AK am i really looking for a flip situation here? I figure hes got to have KK-AA. Cant see a reshove with a weaker pp then QQ

Look up pot odds and download pokerstove; it will completely change your outlook on the game. Basically, you're getting 1:1.37, so you have to win this hand 42% of the time to be at break even. This means he's got to be 4-betting with QQ+,AKs,AKo for this to be a fold, which trust me he's 4-betting a lot lighter than this. If he's 4-betting JJ+,AQs+,AKo than this is a great spot. If you ever fold QQ here you're making a mistake. And yes, with the dead money in the pot you are looking for a flip.

Good poker is about making easy decisions; you always got to ask yourself, "what will I do if he shoves here? How does that effect his range?" If you don't like him shoving over the top of you then don't 3-bet

General thought is when someone raises from UTG+1 they have a "good hand." That means you'd probably expect people to have 99+ or AJ+ on a table full of donks(there are certainly exceptions but we try not to focus on them).

These games in the first level are an exception

Another thing, we're still really early on in this SNG where everyone is assumed to be bad. Usually the worse the players are in a 9 man SNG, the more reason there is to avoid conflict and large pots and wait a little as they knock one another out.

Hmm I disagree with this. I've have had a decent amount of experience at this level and players are raising and stacking of with much worse hands than this. Assuming he's not a complete gambling spewtard(which he probably isn't due to his stack being roughly it's starting size) he's probably raising 77+ QJ+ KTs+ KJ+ AT+ I've played live a ton with these kind of players and they have the mentality of 2 pictures are the stone cold nuts, I may be wrong about 77/KTs though

Although I do think flatting is better than raising for the said reasons I'd prefer a shove here. Now that may seem totally absurd but by doing this we are disguising our hand(bare with me) because it's common for some action junky to shove with all sorts of garbage for the fun of it. By shoving we'd expect some funny calls from players who won't be bullied from some dumb maniac.

This move is only good really within the first orbit and at the non-turbo games

Good point about avoiding conflict I think we're missing out on too much value here by not shoving

 

[medeiros13]

For PS players, just curious about opinions on the best SNG game to play to attempt to increase your BR. Somebody in this thread earlier mentioned they had a $50 BR and we wondering if the $2 90 man bounty tournaments might be a good BR booster....then I railed Jilly take down a 90 man bounty and these thoughts hit me again....I usually play the 9 man bounty SNG but wondering if 18/27/45/90 might be a better for profitability vs. time played.

 

[cjatud2012]

^^ It depends on what you're good at and what you've had experience with. The only thing that I would consider is that the multi-table SNG's, like the ones with 90 people or more, probably have more variance (jeez, that's a scary thought, STT's are pretty bad as it is lol), so you might need a bigger roll for those games I would think.

 

[medeiros13]

^^ It depends on what you're good at and what you've had experience with. The only thing that I would consider is that the multi-table SNG's, like the ones with 90 people or more, probably have more variance (jeez, that's a scary thought, STT's are pretty bad as it is lol), so you might need a bigger roll for those games I would think.

Thank you for the input sir. For me, I did a little experiment where I challenged myself to win a 9/18/27/45/90/180 man and did all of it except for the 180 (due to the 180 being too expensive for proper BR mgt) I have found that I do better in some of the larger settings than the 9 man...it could be because I'm more patient....so I guess the question still lays out there

 

[OzExorcist]

Posted a line check hand over in HA if anyone's interested: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tou...-nlhe-stt-turbo-tptk-line-185211/#post1587054

One of those ones where I got to the end of the hand and then couldn't really explain why I'd done what I'd done - the whole thing just got autopiloted. If I did the right thing then I owe my autopilot a drink, if not though then I've got a problem and I need to take it back for retraining

 

[Logan2]

For PS players, just curious about opinions on the best SNG game to play to attempt to increase your BR. Somebody in this thread earlier mentioned they had a $50 BR and we wondering if the $2 90 man bounty tournaments might be a good BR booster....then I railed Jilly take down a 90 man bounty and these thoughts hit me again....I usually play the 9 man bounty SNG but wondering if 18/27/45/90 might be a better for profitability vs. time played.

Try some and decide, but if you already try most of the types of games, you should have and idea by now, what works for some not necesary will work for you, the best is to play what you like and games you see better results on.

If you like more larger settings, probably the $1/45´s could be ok for you. Maybe try some 1/4 million sattys ($2 buyin for a $11 ticket, pay around 1/4-1/5), like CJ comment Variance is higher than in 9man games, but if is your thing just go for it.

 

[pat3392]

For PS players, just curious about opinions on the best SNG game to play to attempt to increase your BR. Somebody in this thread earlier mentioned they had a $50 BR and we wondering if the $2 90 man bounty tournaments might be a good BR booster....then I railed Jilly take down a 90 man bounty and these thoughts hit me again....I usually play the 9 man bounty SNG but wondering if 18/27/45/90 might be a better for profitability vs. time played.

Don't know about the bounties, I've never played them but the turbo variants are more profitable than the non-turbos. The STT arn't as profitable as other games, so aren't the double or nothings. The 180 are the most profitable but also have insane variance.

It depends on what you're long term goals are really. I play the 45 turbo SnG which are super profitable; I chose that one because they start up quickly in the low and high stakes(the 90s don't load much in the higher games, I think the same was with the 27. The $4/$7 180 don't load either) and it has a big field; big field=more shove spots=more abuse of level 1 thinkers=huge edge over 95% of field= $$

 

[cjatud2012]

Posted a line check hand over in HA if anyone's interested: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tou...-nlhe-stt-turbo-tptk-line-185211/#post1587054

One of those ones where I got to the end of the hand and then couldn't really explain why I'd done what I'd done - the whole thing just got autopiloted. If I did the right thing then I owe my autopilot a drink, if not though then I've got a problem and I need to take it back for retraining

where you been buddy? I've missed you

 

[cjatud2012]

yay lab was canceled, that means more time for pokahssss

ps opening tables on Stars really sucks, it's so much easier on Tilt

 

[cjatud2012]

I <3 +9bi sessions