***November SNG Thread***

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pat3392

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Bwammo has a video at DTB about playing with a big stack. You can get a 7 day free trial there - then if you pm me I can give you a code for an additional 7 days. (They only offer that to Cardschat members).

ooooh more resources :) What is this DTB?
 
seanDCFC

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Collin Moshman's Sit and Go Strategy is the book I'd suggest for you to read. It should give you the basic winning strategy. But this thread hear is a far better resorce IMO(still read the book so you know what were talking about). There is alot of good advice here but be sure to post HH's in the HA forum and post a link here for good feed back from the SNG regs.

Thanks, I'll have buy that and read it a few times. Ive already been posting some HH's and ive been given some great advise so i'll certainly be posting more. :)
 
Logan2

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I Love S&G Madness in Fulltilt, the promo brings so many bad players, you can find 3 or 4 players with 80/20, 95/5, 70/3, 60/4 in each table :eating::cheers:

Up 15buyins in the $5´s playing only 2 hours yesterday and 2 hours today, too bad end tomorrow.
 
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Lofwyr

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Ugh...just had a depressing end to a rather depressing session. Luck had finally turned and I was sitting on big stacks in 2 2/180s middle-late stage, a big stack with 2 tables left in a 6/45 and chip leader with 5 left in a 2/180. Made the most -EV decision ever...let the cable guy come to try and fix our connection issues. This wound up with me losing internet for some 5-10min...blinded off stacks and then couldn't win a flip for anything to get chips back when the internet returned. Wound up 5th and no cashes :(

I might have to give the moshman book a read. Is it something to read before or after Kill Everyone?
 
Clambake420

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It's just something that takes time. After a while you'll be snoozing with only 2 tables, then you can move up to 4, and then more. So just be patient, with time you'll get better at it.

yea hopefully it comes with time...quickly, as i cant stand the 1.20's anymore, and i feel the 3.40s don't support my BR. (although regardless of stake, my real goal is to play mistake free poker). I feel like i played pretty decently 2 tabling the 1.20's, but you know my game after reviewing some of my HH's.... my goal is to build a profit for once, i dont know if im better 1 tabling the 3.40s or working towards becoming better at multitabling the 1.20's+. I guess im just sick of bouncing back and forth and making no real progress...so i ask you poker pros how its done? Cash games seem to be out of the question unless i take my entire roll to a stake that actually matters.
 
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Lofwyr

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yea hopefully it comes with time...quickly, as i cant stand the 1.20's anymore, and i feel the 3.40s don't support my BR. (although regardless of stake, my real goal is to play mistake free poker). I feel like i played pretty decently 2 tabling the 1.20's, but you know my game after reviewing some of my HH's.... my goal is to build a profit for once, i dont know if im better 1 tabling the 3.40s or working towards becoming better at multitabling the 1.20's+. I guess im just sick of bouncing back and forth and making no real progress...so i ask you poker pros how its done? Cash games seem to be out of the question unless i take my entire roll to a stake that actually matters.
It depends on your roll. Personally, I think STTs are too stiff. They don't offer as much profit potential as larger field SNGs. If you have a bit of cash and can handle swings I'd say try the $1.10/45's. It'll press a different skill-set on you ofc. A good video to get a basis for 45's is The Lipo Fund's video. pat linked it in the October thread. Essentially though, it emphasizes the importance of aggression.

Multi-tabling is a fairly essential skill though. Variance is a killer and you just gotta chug through it. More tables is critical to getting over the humps sometimes.
 
OzExorcist

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man i dont know how you people play 4+ Sng's. I 2 tabled the 1.20's today for the first time and that was overwhelming enough, not to mention when your in the final 3 on both tables and you got both screens blinking at you repeatedly. I think it did help my discipline though, got 1st and 2nd. But i did enjoy it more then just sitting there focusing on one lame 1.20 sng. So ill keep at it.

It's just practice and experience. A big part of STT play is getting the push-fold decisions right when your stack is 10BB or less and after you've played a lot of those spots you start to make the decisions quicker and quicker. As your decision making time comes down it starts to get easier to add tables.

You'll also get better at reading the other players and putting them into categories so you know how you're going to handle them, which will cut your decision time some.

Don't be in any huge hurry to add tables before you're ready, just start adding one at a time when you think you can handle it. If you're playing two and starting to get bored between hands it's probably a sign that you can try adding another one.
 
Clambake420

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It depends on your roll. Personally, I think STTs are too stiff. They don't offer as much profit potential as larger field SNGs. If you have a bit of cash and can handle swings I'd say try the $1.10/45's. It'll press a different skill-set on you ofc. A good video to get a basis for 45's is The Lipo Fund's video. pat linked it in the October thread. Essentially though, it emphasizes the importance of aggression.

Multi-tabling is a fairly essential skill though. Variance is a killer and you just gotta chug through it. More tables is critical to getting over the humps sometimes.

Alright thanks ill check that video out. I do enjoy playing the larger fields i just dont do it often enough to get good at them.

It's just practice and experience. A big part of STT play is getting the push-fold decisions right when your stack is 10BB or less and after you've played a lot of those spots you start to make the decisions quicker and quicker. As your decision making time comes down it starts to get easier to add tables.

You'll also get better at reading the other players and putting them into categories so you know how you're going to handle them, which will cut your decision time some.

Don't be in any huge hurry to add tables before you're ready, just start adding one at a time when you think you can handle it. If you're playing two and starting to get bored between hands it's probably a sign that you can try adding another one.


Oh trust me i wont be adding any more then 2 for a while...haha.
 
Bwammo

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@dakota - I'll take a look at the DTB thing. Don't have enough time to really capitalize atm. And I'm primarily playing large field turbo SNGs right now, so it's not a pressing issue.

The videos I've put up on DTB are indeed for turbo MTT SNGs, so you might actually find them rather useful. 2 Large stack and 2 short stack examples are available currently.
 
Clambake420

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alright so i want to give those 45 man's a try but i never played a turbo. I found the lipo video and currently watching it (kinda hard to follow though since so much is going on). Any quick tips on adjusting to a turbo game. Or do you not even recommend bouncing between turbos and regs.
 
seanDCFC

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The first week of the month has gone well for me. Im happy with this return- Last 7 days- 28 games, total profit $20.50, Average ROI 33%, ITM 46%. :)
 
Logan2

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Still 4 games left for today, will try to get back later to post results for first week, even when not sure how good is to see results by week. Last month have a great 15 days then the ship sink for more than a week and at the end could get back, but it kind of put more presure when things not getting well and look it by week instead for 15days/1month.

But so far i think im doing well.
 
DetroitJimmy

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I shifted gears in my micro stakes SSTs. I have been playing much more aggressive early and middle stages using this big stack to push table around. In my last 130 game I have 26% ROI and many more first place finishes than last month. I was playing way to tight and limping into third and not finishing well.
 
Logan2

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Last session don´t end so well but at least get a 2nd.

After first 7 days, 63 games, ROI:11.3%, ITM:44.4% . So far it looks the Jump to $5´s was a good move.

However. Last months have:

September
1st: 13%
2nd:13%
3rd:22%
4th:13%
5th: 6%

October
1st: 9%
2nd:14%
3rd:15%
4th:14%
5th:11%

November, so far
1st: 8%
2nd:22%
3rd:14%
4th:14%
5th: 5%

6th,7th,8th,9th no much change, but trying to be patience reaching 5th like in September (in October go up a little). In September
have 22%/3rd places was when notice that after reaching $ don´t care enough for the table and this month trying to focus more there,
wich help to change the 22% from 3rds to 2nds so far, but will like to see 1st going up.

So, need to work out in my HU game, any decent reads or videos??, i remember reading ryan wiseman book about S&G´s, but not have
much in the subject, not remember if Moshman have it.
 
BEERM4N

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1 - >$1000 from SNGs
2 - ^^

Barely any volume so far this month but gona do a heap more in the next few weeks. i wanna play at least 200 this month

DisplayGraph-2.png
 
cjatud2012

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Logan, it's hard to say from looking just at your finish distribution and not looking at any stats or hand histories, but I would imagine that your lack of 1st place finishes has less to do with your heads up play and more of how you're playing before you get to that point. I may be generalizing when I say this but I would imagine that when you get ITM and heads-up you're probably the short stack more often than you're the big stack, which is going to affect your finish distribution more than any strategy you can implement. So really your adjustments need to come earlier in the tournament, if that makes sense. When you're ~6 handed or so, you want to try to accumulate chips so that when the bubble hits, you'll have tons of +$EV spots available to you, whereas if you sort of limp towards the bubble, you're really limiting the number of profitable opportunities you'll have. So it's okay to take risks at that point because there's less ICM tax than there is on the bubble, and you're setting yourself up to make more protitable decisions. This will increase your 6th and 5th place finishes, but it'll decrease your 4th's by a lot, it'll decrease your 3rd's, but then increase your 2nd's and 1st's.

Hopefully all of that makes sense, I'm sure someone else could explain it better but yeah.
 
DetroitJimmy

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Logan, it's hard to say from looking just at your finish distribution and not looking at any stats or hand histories, but I would imagine that your lack of 1st place finishes has less to do with your heads up play and more of how you're playing before you get to that point. I may be generalizing when I say this but I would imagine that when you get ITM and heads-up you're probably the short stack more often than you're the big stack, which is going to affect your finish distribution more than any strategy you can implement. So really your adjustments need to come earlier in the tournament, if that makes sense. When you're ~6 handed or so, you want to try to accumulate chips so that when the bubble hits, you'll have tons of +$EV spots available to you, whereas if you sort of limp towards the bubble, you're really limiting the number of profitable opportunities you'll have. So it's okay to take risks at that point because there's less ICM tax than there is on the bubble, and you're setting yourself up to make more protitable decisions. This will increase your 6th and 5th place finishes, but it'll decrease your 4th's by a lot, it'll decrease your 3rd's, but then increase your 2nd's and 1st's.

Hopefully all of that makes sense, I'm sure someone else could explain it better but yeah.

This is what I've been working on. No more pussy footing around in the mid stages. I was just squeaking into third while the big stack pushed the table around. My ROI dropped to under 5%. Now I am usually the big stack at the end and I'm doing the bullying. Much more funner and profitable. Can't wait to try a little more controlled version when I move up to $6.50 turbos. It' a totally different game when you have over half the chips with only 4 people left.
 
Logan2

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Logan, it's hard to say from looking just at your finish distribution and not looking at any stats or hand histories, but I would imagine that your lack of 1st place finishes has less to do with your heads up play and more of how you're playing before you get to that point. I may be generalizing when I say this but I would imagine that when you get ITM and heads-up you're probably the short stack more often than you're the big stack, which is going to affect your finish distribution more than any strategy you can implement. So really your adjustments need to come earlier in the tournament, if that makes sense. When you're ~6 handed or so, you want to try to accumulate chips so that when the bubble hits, you'll have tons of +$EV spots available to you, whereas if you sort of limp towards the bubble, you're really limiting the number of profitable opportunities you'll have. So it's okay to take risks at that point because there's less ICM tax than there is on the bubble, and you're setting yourself up to make more protitable decisions. This will increase your 6th and 5th place finishes, but it'll decrease your 4th's by a lot, it'll decrease your 3rd's, but then increase your 2nd's and 1st's.

Hopefully all of that makes sense, I'm sure someone else could explain it better but yeah.
That´s the thing CJ, not really my case.

I play very well shorstack, can comeback from 100 chips left a fair amount of times, can reach bubble short and still manage to get back and enter healthy in top3, can manage to double up in top3 and even can manage to get a big stack, but as soon as that happen i can´t handle and trow it back.

Making a fast search.

Last 5 games that win, 4times enter like the shorstack or like the 2nd short in the bubble and still manage to win the games even if was equal or short in HU.

Last 5 games that end 2nd i was the big Stack HU (but not was the Big Stack before enter the bubble in 3 times) , reaching HU was 8500 vs 4500 in 3 times, 1 time even 11500 vs 2500, just 1 time short, and still blow it HU.

So, my case is that i suck HU with a big stack.
 
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WiZZiM

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That´s the thing CJ, not really my case.

I play very well shorstack, can comeback from 100 chips left a fair amount of times, can reach bubble short and still manage to get back and enter healthy in top3, can manage to double up in top3 and even can manage to get a big stack, but as soon as that happen i can´t handle and trow it back.

Making a fast search.

Last 5 games that win, 4times enter like the shorstack or like the 2nd short in the bubble and still manage to win the games even if was equal or short in HU.

Last 5 games that end 2nd i was the big Stack HU (but not was the Big Stack before enter the bubble in 3 times) , reaching HU was 8500 vs 4500 in 3 times, 1 time even 11500 vs 2500, just 1 time short, and still blow it HU.

So, my case is that i suck HU with a big stack.

I'm guessing you play turbo's.

Quickest way to 'fix' your heads up game is to just simply follow the nash equilibrium. Once, you have a decent idea of nash ranges and what type of hands we shove/call a shove with.

Once we have that down, then we can adjust it for the types of opponant's we're up against.

Just as an example, if i'm playing against a weak/tight player, i'm shoving much wider than nash suggests, but i'm calling a lot tighter than it suggests also.

And as CJ has mentioned, there could be an issue getting to the bubble as a shortstack more often than the average. No matter how good you are, you're always going to have problems in your distribution as you can't survive a lost flip.
 
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i played a few sitngoes madness, won a few of them
 
Logan2

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I'm guessing you play turbo's.

Quickest way to 'fix' your heads up game is to just simply follow the nash equilibrium. Once, you have a decent idea of nash ranges and what type of hands we shove/call a shove with.

Once we have that down, then we can adjust it for the types of opponant's we're up against.

Just as an example, if i'm playing against a weak/tight player, i'm shoving much wider than nash suggests, but i'm calling a lot tighter than it suggests also.

And as CJ has mentioned, there could be an issue getting to the bubble as a shortstack more often than the average. No matter how good you are, you're always going to have problems in your distribution as you can't survive a lost flip.
i play regulars.

Was looking in the charts of NE now after read you and at first view think one of the problems is that usually call lighter than should when reach HU. Probably will need to take more chances too when reach 5th-6th for the shorstack thing.

Will take the day off tomorrow from poker and will get in to this.

Thanks Wizz and CJ.
 
PattyR

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nice cards logan...i use the same card mod at fulltilt..and one real similar on PS
 
cjatud2012

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YouTube - Haste The Day - The Quiet, Deadly Ticking

bought this cd yesterday, can't stop listening to it, saw them live last month along with Enter Shikari. It's almost embarrassing, it's actually sort of generic, and it's Christian :eek:

And Logan, I know you know that coming back from t100 chips has pretty much nothing to do with your skill, and that 5 games isn't enough to draw any conclusions about your heads-up game, etc.

I had downloaded a really great video from Greg Jones, it was free on DTB at one time but I don't know if it still is. It was a really basic intro to SNG's, but it highlighted how a winning player's finish distribution should look, and did a great job explaining. I'll see if I can't find it.
 
PattyR

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CJ...u seriously actually listen to that...yuck bro...i prefer papa roach, killswitchengage.

u like rammstein? cradle of filth?
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

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Papa Roach? Talk about selling out, lol. And Killswitch... I dunno, they're like not even metal, their singer just doesn't cut it for me. I mean I like it, but I guess I don't respect it, if that makes sense lol.

I used to like Filth a lot more, I still appreciate them but don't really listen to them a whole lot. Rammstein is a little weird :p
 
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