Sportsbook Poker stole my money (mod edit: resolved)

[LombardiStix]

I don't ever put it passed some network to "hire" guys to run out and print ghost stories like this. If it is real... I truly feel for you. Probably the best you can do is pick a bigger room. However, if this sort of thing was happening I'm think we'd hear about it from other people and stories would begin to add up. Again... not calling you a liar, just urging onlookers to take with perspective. Good luck in your future... I hope you feel compelled to spend some time adding good content to our forum and not just negative postings.

Stix

 

[TPC]

Wow, for the first time, I actually believe the OP. Sorry to hear that man it's way fishy.

Full Tilt and pokerstars FTW!!! Really people, you don't need any other sites.

 

[lammetje]

Couple of quick replies:
LombardiStix: No sir - I am legit.

pfb8888: No sir. And regarding Pacific, I just let it go. I never did contact them. At first I was floored to find the money had disappeared from the account, then I read thru the small print and found the crucial clause I referred to. I was just sickened, but let it be. This is now the second time I have been 'stung' (i.e. 2 out of 2) and hence my post.

Dorkus Malorkus: I might give that a try, although they make it clear they will *NOT* enter into any correspondence with me...I did send one more email prior to reading your post. I will paste that below, for completeness.

ALL: Before posting here, I was on the point of just quitting. I am basically a hard working (sometimes!) honest Joe who plays for micro stakes for relaxation and study (I do actually study and read books on the subject). I am no big time player like some of you guys. However, the volume (and content) of your responses has perked me up quite some. I really want to thank you all.

I take heed about several points that have been raised here. I hope I am not the only one that has learned something out of this.

I am now a little confused as to whether Sportsbook are on Merge, or Cake, or whatever.
Pothole's post is just damned SCARY. To be honest it would explain a lot though....

I honestly thought I was joining a reputable USA based room. Seems this one is based in Gibralter? And using support Ops based (probably) based in india and such places....sending out only scripted replies to any 'inquiries'.
I joined the site after reading 2 or 3 'sparkling' online internet reviews. I guess these reviews are maybe often fake or loaded.

a Q: A lot of you mention (tip) FT and Stars - are both USA based? And can someone point me to a thread that explains in simple terms what this entire 'USA' situation is all about please? Just so can I understand it better. Apologies in advance if that is a mega-noob Q.

Thanks again to all, I will keep you posted.
I am also encouraged by you all, so I will endeavor to post regarding the more pleasant things in future.

Regards



Latest email sent almost 24hrs ago (as yet no reply)


Dear Sportsbook,
This is hugely regrettable. I still have no idea why you have closed my account – but that is of course your right, so I must accept it.
However, I cannot allow you to simply keep my money, because that is plain wrong (and some would say, plain theft).
If you cannot refund my deposit to my Mastercard, then again, it is not my fault if your card processor cannot handle this.
Instead, please refund the money owed to me to my netteller account instead. My Netteller Account ID is xxxxxxxxxx.
Your own rules specify that this shall be the case in exactly this situation (please see below).

If you require further information, or some proof of identity, then please do not hesitate to ask.
I will also accept a refund direct to my bank account.


Credit Card Usage Policy
Refund & Cancellation Policy - Players who make a deposit to a Sportsbook.com account are under no obligation to make a purchase or play any games. You may request a refund at any time by sending an email to Poker@Sportsbook.com. Where possible, Sportsbook.com will cancel the transaction or refund directly to the credit card used to make the account deposit, but in some cases we may not be able to do this due to credit card processing regulations. In the event that we are not able to cancel a transaction or refund directly to a credit card, a refund sent directly to a nominated bank account, or via check NETELLER or Click2Pay will be offered. Some verification from the cardholder may be required in the event that we are not able to refund directly to a card.

 

[lammetje]

Latest:

Dear xxxx,
Thank you for contacting us.
We have tried to consolidate this issue with our processor, however they have responded that the bank is not accepting the refund. We may suggest that you make other arrangements with your bank as we cannot neither send the funds as requested or in any other fashion.Regrettably, we will not enter into further correspondence pertaining to this matter.


I think it is now pretty clear. The title of this thread says it all

 

[Divebitch]

Wow, for the first time, I actually believe the OP. Sorry to hear that man it's way fishy.

Full Tilt and PokerStars FTW!!! Really people, you don't need any other sites.

I believed him from the OP. I'm often surprised by how many people accuse folk of lying, cheating, and leaving out important details. I had less than a handful of posts, maybe my 1st (IDK, you can only pull up your last 500 posts), when I posted something similar (think it was FT, and got worked out). Sometimes it takes an incident to get someone to feel compelled to post, seeking help and advice. The OP didn't come right out and list the entire sum of correspondence, but was able to provide it when asked. I'll always give someone the benefit of the doubt that they are not coming out of the woodwork to get their jollies by bashing a site, while knowing full well they did something wrong.

There could very well be some details that never even occurred to him. But it's also totally conceivable that he was ripped off, either inadvertly or on purpose by some over-zealous Sportsbet employee. They owe him an explanation, or at the very least, his money back if they cannot provide one. Even in that idiotic incident with FTP_The_nuts, after Full Tilt explained why they closed the account, they still said "feel free to contact us any time", and he was able to work things out with them. It is absolutely unconscionable for Sportsbook to tell this guy that no further communication will be possible. WTF.

a Q: A lot of you mention (tip) FT and Stars - are both USA based? And can someone point me to a thread that explains in simple terms what this entire 'USA' situation is all about please? .

No, Stars is out of Isle of Man (don't ask me where that is), and Tilt might be too, but not sure of this. They are definitely not U.S.. Not sure what you mean by the 'USA situation', but there are some sites (i.e. Titan, party poker) that do not accept U.S. players. Or play (fake) money only. But it doesn't really matter where FT & Stars are from. They are huge, very entrusted sites, with excellent customer service, and long histories and accounts of fairness and honesty. If it's sports betting you're looking for, try bodog. They are less on poker, but big on other forms of betting, and on par w/FT & Stars in terms of calibre.

P.S. I'd send them a copy of this thread. Let them know the word is out, and the onus is on them to prove they are not a shoddy ripoff site. You have nothing to lose at this point, and they might even reconsider trying to make good.

 

[docStats]

Regrettable

I have been reading CC for some time now ( several posters ask why one visits CC if they don't play online --- simple: the tips and advice offered here improve one's play both live and online) After some failed attempts of depositing (US players have to deal with gift cards, uncooperative banks, etc.) I manage to find a successful way **** ONLY TO READ THIS ****

Q: If I deposit on Cake, will I get the same BS? Should I expect to if Sportsbook and Cake are on the same "network"?

For &*^#"s sake, make online poker legal and regulated already.

Cheers,

docStats

Latest:

Dear xxxx,
Thank you for contacting us.
We have tried to consolidate this issue with our processor, however they have responded that the bank is not accepting the refund. We may suggest that you make other arrangements with your bank as we cannot neither send the funds as requested or in any other fashion.Regrettably, we will not enter into further correspondence pertaining to this matter.


I think it is now pretty clear. The title of this thread says it all

 

[docStats]

Latest:
.Regrettably, we will not enter into further correspondence pertaining to this matter.


I think it is now pretty clear. The title of this thread says it all

How many times have they said this and still replied to a following message?

 

[lammetje]

Divebitch - thanks man, you totally get it.

OK, I have been so totally naive.
I really thought there were some sites actually based in the continental USA.
I was vaguely aware of a situation around 2 or 3 years ago when Party Poker (my first site and I am still a member of it but rarely go there) suddenly banned all the US players. I knew it was do with some US legislation, but did not really understand why (I am from Europe) and since then I only see sites with 'US players accepted' or 'US players not accepted'. That's what I meant with the 'USA situation'.
Must be real tough on you guys.

OK, I have learned an awful lot in the last 2/3 days. Ilse of Man, btw, is a smallish island situated halfways between ireland and the UK. It used to be (don't know if it still is) a tax haven, or something suchlike. Anyways, it has its own government, I believe, seperate to that of the UK.

My research over the last 2/3 days and all your comments have left me with 1 last question that I had actually never even considered before.
I always thought that if I joined Site 'A' then I can only play with other members of Site 'A'. Seemed obvious to me. But now it occurs to me, I could actually meet players from Sites 'B' and 'C' - if those sites also belong on the same network (e.g. iPoker). Is that actually true? Or am I just confusing myself.....

Anyway I think I am going to give poker stars a try next. I like the look of Titan but no US players are allowed, and I do prefer more of a mix of players in the room.


Thanks all

 

[lammetje]

Latest:

Dear Support,

Thank you for your reply, but this is really unacceptable.
You have closed my account (beyond my control and without any explanation) and you are withholding MY MONEY.

YOUR OWN TERMS AND CONDITIONS clearly states:

"In the event that we are not able to cancel a transaction or refund directly to a credit card, a refund sent directly to a nominated bank account, or via check neteller or Click2Pay will be offered.
Some verification from the cardholder may be required in the event that we are not able to refund directly to a card."

In my last email I have given you my Neteller account number and have also offered you verification / ID.

Please tell me why you are not able do this according to your own terms and conditions.

Thanks

==================================================

REPLY:

Dear xxxx,
Thank you for contacting us.
Regrettably, we will not enter into further correspondence pertaining to this matter.

 

[Divebitch]

Must be real tough on you guys.

OK, I have learned an awful lot in the last 2/3 days. Ilse of Man, btw, is a smallish island situated halfways between Ireland and the UK. It used to be (don't know if it still is) a tax haven, or something suchlike. Anyways, it has its own government, I believe, seperate to that of the UK.

My research over the last 2/3 days and all your comments have left me with 1 last question that I had actually never even considered before.
I always thought that if I joined Site 'A' then I can only play with other members of Site 'A'. Seemed obvious to me. But now it occurs to me, I could actually meet players from Sites 'B' and 'C' - if those sites also belong on the same network (e.g. iPoker). Is that actually true? Or am I just confusing myself.....

Thanks all

It's not tough on us at all, except for people who live in states like Washington and Kentucky, where online poker is banned. I live in Pennsylvania, no problems at all. I can play at any of the sites I most care to deal with. I am happy enough at Full Tilt. But I also play at Poker Stars, Carbon (Merge), UltimateBet (and Absolute, same network), and BoDog.
Used to dabble in Doyles Room, but no more - can if I want, but that's also a network.

I figured as much about Isle of Man. It had to be separate as I don't think any UK-based site allows U.S. players, someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

You're confusing me as well. I just know this. When you are in a tournament on a network, thru site 'A', you can be sitting with people who logged in thru sites 'B' and 'C'. Full Tilt, Stars, and Bodog are not affiliated with any networks.

 

[Divebitch]

Latest:

REPLY:

Dear xxxx,
Thank you for contacting us.
Regrettably, we will not enter into further correspondence pertaining to this matter.

They suck. I repeat.... "P.S. I'd send them a copy of this thread. Let them know the word is out, and the onus is on them to prove they are not a shoddy ripoff site. You have nothing to lose at this point, and they might even reconsider trying to make good."

 

[Pothole]

I always thought that if I joined Site 'A' then I can only play with other members of Site 'A'. Seemed obvious to me. But now it occurs to me, I could actually meet players from Sites 'B' and 'C' - if those sites also belong on the same network (e.g. iPoker). Is that actually true? Or am I just confusing myself.....

To clarify, if you are playing on a site that has other poker sites on it's network, you will be playing some or all players that share the network.
e.g. If you play on Absolute Poker, your opposition may well be logged in and playing from Ultimate Bet. The same goes for sites on the Merge, Cake, Ipoker networks to name a few. The only sites I know of that do not share their software or have other sites on their network are Poker Stars, Full Tilt and Bodog. I would advise that being in Europe you can deposit through Click2Pay or Neteller. These are not just service providers that enable you to deposit to online poker rooms, they are actually online banks and as such, if you have a problem with a site pertaining to your deposit you have an avenue of recourse.
The Isle Of Man is still a tax haven and the US situation is this. Online poker is NOT illegal, the transfer of funds to and from poker sites is however and in an attempt to try and make an example of a poker site, the FBI is now investigating Full Tilt for money laundering. Don't think that because FT is based outside of the US the Feds have no teeth, they arrested and successfully charged the executives of Neteller when they visited the US, resulting fines in the millions of dollars.
Sportbook have indeed recently moved to the merge network which is another sign to stay away, when a site flip flops from network to network there are problems.

 

[lammetje]

Truly excellent post Pothole and it answers all of my questions exactly, to the point and totally clearly. Massive thanks.

I now start to realise how these 2 bit sites do operate and will now only consider (for sure) going with a recognised site with their own standalone network. I will try Stars for sure. Maybe see some of you there.

Some of these other sites seem like car insurance brokers, they take your money but do not give you actual product. And if you ever get into dispute and try to get your money back.....

The situation in the USA for online players sounds dire. With all due respect, I thought it was the land of the free, the land of opportunity - not to mention the country that invented poker in the first place. I guess the real issue though is with the transfer of funds per se (and the possibility of laundering and funding of terrorists) rather than any real issue with gambling/poker as such. Maybe things will change for the better for you. I sure hope so.

One last thought: Even if I HAD done something wrong, not very, very bad, but just a little bit naughty, then I would expect that site to first contact me and ask me to explain myself. If I did it again, then I would expect them to ban me. Of course I would.
Either way, unless I did something TERRIBLE then I would not expect them to withhold my money.
In this case, I have done nothing wrong at all, they refuse to explain, refuse to communicate and refuse to reimburse me.

I truly hope I can find comfort in the thought that this lousy site will lose far more in $ than I have, by this thread alerting others to this appalling story.

I am going to send them one more email and ask them to donate my $100 to charity instead. Any suggestions are welcome.
Let's see how they respond.

Thanks again - all of you - your help and advice has been awesome

 

[PC69]

I am going to send them one more email and ask them to donate my $100 to charity instead. Any suggestions are welcome.
Let's see how they respond.

While Iam always up for giving to charity, I dont think this is a good idea. If in fact they did steal your money, which you make a pretty good argument that they did. My guess is if you tell them to send it to charity they might just say they did and give you some BS name of a charity, in order to shut you up and to get you to put a positive spin on the whole situation.. Just a thought

 

[dj11]

With this , I believe Sportsbook just got the deal of the Century. For the cheap sum of approximately $100 they have purchased $1,000,000 worth of BAD PRESS AND WORD OF MOUTH.

Man what a deal.!

Incidentally, at this point the money is no longer the issue IMO. It is the refusal to deal with this and this machine line of;
"Regrettably, we will not enter into further correspondence pertaining to this matter." If that doesn't read the same as "We stole your money, you can't touch us, now (DEAL WITH IT) or (FCK OFF U PISSANT)", then we all phail at between the line reading.

At this point it would behoove Sportsbook to submit all the emails they have with OP to verify we are getting the whole story. If there ever was a real reason given, and not posted here, then they could clear that up fairly easy by doing that.

Otherwise I think it extremely bad form for CC to continue any association with Sportsbook.

Latest:

Dear Support,

Thank you for your reply, but this is really unacceptable.
You have closed my account (beyond my control and without any explanation) and you are withholding MY MONEY.

YOUR OWN TERMS AND CONDITIONS clearly states:

"In the event that we are not able to cancel a transaction or refund directly to a credit card, a refund sent directly to a nominated bank account, or via check NETELLER or Click2Pay will be offered.
Some verification from the cardholder may be required in the event that we are not able to refund directly to a card."

In my last email I have given you my Neteller account number and have also offered you verification / ID.

Please tell me why you are not able do this according to your own terms and conditions.

Thanks

==================================================

REPLY:

Dear xxxx,
Thank you for contacting us.
Regrettably, we will not enter into further correspondence pertaining to this matter.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

Wow, for the first time, I actually believe the OP. Sorry to hear that man it's way fishy.

Full Tilt and PokerStars FTW!!! Really people, you don't need any other sites.

This.

 

[moeraj]

Unfortunately there are many similar cases to this out there with poker sites closing accounts and refusing to give a valid reason. Sportsbook in particular has a lot of cases like this being reported.The only way to change this is if groups of poker players get together to pressure these sites to be more transparent with their decisions.In fact what usually happens is the major poker forums accept these terms and usually labels anyone who reports them as liars.There are many situations like this that need to be resolved and I would suggest trying casinomeister since sportsbook does not have an ecogra seal.They are an online poker watchdog and have resolved similar issues for people at many different sites. They have a list of sites they refuse to deal with because those listed sites won't bother trying to resolve issues so I hope sportsbook is not on that list.Good luck.

 

[bullishwwd]

Scared now

I guess I had better check my account there...never play poker there but make a few college bets and occasionally play blackjack, but not for several months now...you have me scared. Wally

PS: GL and keep us informed as to any progress. There has to be some recourse for you.

 

[robwhufc]

Full Tilt and PokerStars FTW!!! Really people, you don't need any other sites.

Or at least an established site or one affiliated to a legitimate bookmaker if playing in Europe (e.g Ladbrokes, Victor Chandler etc). It's difficult for new "unbacked" firms to get sufficient creditability to attract new players - Cake Poker and PKR have done so recently, but I would always tread carefully as (as far as i'm aware) you have no legal recourse to get your money back on any site.

DM - agree with you that poster seems legit (we've both seen loads where someone has been caught out cheating and has come on site to moan). Them not being willing to enter into further dialogue is pretty shitty. There has been issues before with Cardschat's lack of due diligence when adding Poker site links - are site able to remove link pending a response from firm?

 

[robwhufc]

Didn't realise OP had joined site same date as first post so? Link from site says that site is US only, but looking through terms and conditions it only looks as if Singapore and Australia are excluded?

 

[dd_decker]

This is a really scary situation. I have been a bit worried about the US government getting involved in online poker ( I figure they'll screw it up even worse than it is now!) but I guess regulation/legalization is necessary so players will have some recourse when something like tis happens.

 

[witchywitchy]

I usually hear of this happening when the credit card is invalid, stolen or the charge was chargedback

 

[lammetje]

I have just googled casinomeister and I will try to contact them now, see if they are interested.
I have nothing to hide and have kept all of the original sent and received emails and the one chat.

Thanks for the suggestion!

robwhufc - I guess you are from the UK (London) area. So am I originally - I have been living abroad for 10 years now.
I have a betfair account that has been open for 6 years - which I opened from here (abroad) no problem. I also did play poker on Betfair for a while too. But it's a bit limited. I have had betting accounts opened from here with william hill and 365 and VC (all for the occasional flutter) and again no problems. I have deposited and withdrawn from all of them. Best win was 20 quid on Yeovil to win Blue Square and get promoted into the Football League. Won at 16/1.

Last bet on Betfair was a winning place bet on the 3rd placed horse in the National 3/4 weeks ago. Stake 16 euro. odds were 6.2
Current balance is 650 Euro.

Yes, I joined this forum the same day I got blocked from Sportsbook - that was the reason - not to bitch but to look for help. Please see my earlier posts (and also my apology).

From joining Sportsbook (on Saturday) and depositing my $100 until getting blocked happened in less than 24 hours.
I logged in a total of 3 times. From my own laptop.
I do not have another account at Sportsbook. I have never had another account at Sportsbook. Neither has anyone else registered at my home address. In fact, I live alone in my own place the last 3 years. The girl who lived at this address before me did not even have internet.
I have never had an account with any other site on the Merge Network.
I have had poker accounts (that are ALL still active) with
Betfair, Gnuf, Party, 888, CD Poker.
Never any issues (apart from 888 emptying my balance by 10% every month because I was inactive for almost a year).
Last time I joined a new site was CD Poker - but that was almost 3 years ago.

CD Poker balance = $0 (deposited $50 - lost it all, hated the site).
888 Balance = $0 (Got it up from $75 to around $165 before I discovered 888 had snaffled it back)
Gnuf Balance $605 (Total deposits $150). This profit has been hard work playing with an average sitdown of $3 each time. I did once win a freeroll out of 800 players 18 months ago and the top prize was around $120.
Party balance = $0 (I got it up from $100 to $236 and then recently, around 8 weeks ago, withdrew it all - with no problems at all - into my Neteller account).


My mastercard that I used for the deposit is not reported as stolen. It is rarely used (especially online) and is backed by this country's number 1 bank. The card is quite new (4-5 months) and has a long expiry date. I have checked online just now and it is active, with the only amounts taken recently being the sportsbook deposit and some flowers for my Mom (it's her birthday on Friday).

Sportsbook history:
Saturday First session: I played a 10 seat SNG for $2.20 and placed 2nd (won $6). Total time I guess 15-20 minutes.
Second time - a while later - I played a $0.10/$0.20 shorthanded limit table. Sat down with $4 and got up 15 minutes later with (I think) $6.50
Third time was Sunday morning. I sat down at a $0.05/$0.10 shorthanded limit table. Sat down with $2 and left with just more (maybe $3??).
I remember the third time, because a US player who had $0.82 left kept raising and re-raising pre-flop until he was all-in. I had KK. He showed 82.
I though that was weird - but then it must have been 3am or so US time so I guess he was tired or drunk (or both).
These are the only 3 (short) sessions I ever played.
Total times used chatbox: ZERO
Total amount sat down with:
$2.20, $4.00, $2.00 = $8.20
Total people sat physically in the same room where I sat (with my laptop) to play these 3 sessions: No-one.

I never had anything from Sportsbook apart from a standard welcome email when I joined and then another standard email after I deposited.
They did not at any time ask for me anything (such as proof of ID or address) but I would have been happy to supply that.

These are all the possible relevant facts that I can think of. You can see the kind of player I am and the typical (v. small) amounts. You can see that I also keep records.

I earn a very good (well above average) income. I do not gamble - I play with very small amounts and take great pride in being able make a ROI. That's the fun for me.
I am not inclined to 'cheat' to make a few lousy bucks, I just don't need the money.

I realise this is way more info than I would be expected to give, but it is here for a reason.

I have been accused of something - I do not even know what - and I know that I am innocent.

That is what hurts me.

And the responses I have been getting - that just makes me mad.

The money? They can stick it where the sun don't shine.

Peasants.

Please judge for yourselves if I am a crook and tell me what I did wrong (apart from using my Mastercard for a first deposit, never again).

 

[Grossberger]

Was just thinking maybe you should try to contact the credit card company see if they can help in any way, see why the money can't be put back on the card, I mean it can't hurt.

 

[lammetje]

@Grossberger - thanks and I might - but this is really not about the money. Anyone who who has ever been falsely accused of something or found out that they are on someone's blacklist somewhere will understand how I feel.