Do you believe online poker is not random?

[Jrrazor]

i think every is one cirle, first give give give, then take take take, its goot to catch this and be smart

 

[research]

This is going to be an extension of the rigged megathread, no doubt. It's the same questions and answers over and over again.

Why would poker sites need to run an elimination bot? To speed up games and increase pot sizes. Faster games mean more fees. Larger pot sizes mean more rake. Together, this leads to increased profits.

Why do chip leaders seem to get lucky and bust out smaller stacks? Obviously because smaller stacks can't bust larger stacks. Smaller stacks double up. The question is: do you remember how many smaller stacks doubled up against big stacks? Or do you just remember when the big stacks eliminate the small stacks?

If you want to really see what is going on, you have to watch what happens not only to you but to others at your table and at other tables. Only then can you start to get a picture of whether or not something strange is going on. Until more people start doing that and, better yet, until there is real data being collected about the types of boards that show up over time at tables, all we will ever see are opinions.

Totally agree, too many of the people arguing BOTH sides of this argument have tunnel vision in their analysis. Myself I observe ALL the hands at the table, I only use showdown hands because that is the only way you know the cards for sure, I include other peoples bad beats not just mine, that is how I have done my analysis. The sad thing is it still tends towards the indication that there is something dubious with odds in certain situations. I would urge others to do their own investigation but remember to include all hands in it not just yours. Only then will the evidence one way or the other, come out. Simple things like when a site claims it has had it RNG validated, contact the company they say they use and check....I have already caught one site out by doing this.

 

[Recreationalplayer]

It has to be Random. We have a tendency to remember such instances and draw incorrect conclusions based on them.

 

[NeoBandit]

It plays different than live play

I can say when I play live I don't have the full house against straight or three of a kind like I do when I play online. I lose live poker because I play badly but online I think there is a lot of people using bots because they don't reply to you and there is no way these guys can play the hands they do and win the way they do without bots. I think there is cheating going on just not the sites doing it, the players are.

 

[research]

It has to be Random. We have a tendency to remember such instances and draw incorrect conclusions based on them.

When you use hand histories then it's not just what you remembered. Observational bias has to be the biggest con job used to obscure this issue.

 

[AceBero63]

The truth is that sites have the benefit of manipulating the game. And the reason is that if you are a new player, or a player who plays for fun. If you only lose, you will give up. And what do we do when there are no fresh deposits? There will be no money. That's why each player has a profile and the algorithm helps some. And if you hit a tournament, you just go down. No RNG is rigged. the algorithm is rigged

 

[manIk5]

I'm pretty much new at online poker and honestly , I do not believe it does . I just concentrate on playing good solid poker , and will let results speak for themselves .

If you were a boss of a poker site , would you rigged it ? You probably wouldnt care who ends up 1st and who last in a tourney , or who wins or losses the most at cash tables , as long as they collect their rake and keep getting richer ...

 

[yago541]

Well, I want to believe that I don't, but I'm always on the back foot.

 

[AceBero63]

the sites do their best to make it uncomfortable for regular players. RNG is not exactly random. It's just that when you make a mistake, someone steals from you. When you tilt, do you notice how your top range doesn't hold up. And there are strange situations everywhere. How many times did the ICM flips fail you? Or on the balloon when you've won a tournament before. Everything is an algorithm of people and it is easy to manipulate and can not be caught. Just when you study. You will earn, but not as much as you deserve.

 

[Shrops]

No

I sure hope they don't do anything like that.

 

[DisizDez]

NO

EVERYTHING IS CONTROLLED BY SOMETHING NO ONE IS SAFE AAAAHHHHHH

 

[jason2626]

No I think it's safe to say it's random but to a point

 

[619Leafs]

After many years of playing online poker those thoughts always enter my mind especially the amount of bad beats. But even though it may not be random gotta still play your best.

 

[Rui Ferreira]

Hello. I am concerned. It appears that ACR has an algorithm that eliminates players that bet against a larger bank. Especially toward breaks and toward the end of the MTT (final table). Does anyone feel the same?

I don't think so, even though there are times when they seem to choose who will win the hand, even with this suspicion I still give credit to the poker sites
:deal::icon_sant:icon_sant

 

[mimietmour]

I am switching from yes and no sometimes I tend to say yes cause strange hand wins and most of the time no cause I play like a dummy. Lo
OL.

 

[Zorba]

If I thought a site wasn't random I would stop playing there.

:top:

 

[1984]

Hello. I am concerned. It appears that ACR has an algorithm that eliminates players that bet against a larger bank. Especially toward breaks and toward the end of the MTT (final table). Does anyone feel the same?

Played in 5-6 rooms regularly in the last 3 years, in WPN rooms, too. i recognized that tendency, even was writing it down for few months. 2-3 minutes before breaks vs. bigger stack over 1500 situation when i've played a hand, and 1100 something ended as relegation, plenty times with preflop allin 80-20% for me... around FTs i can't say for sure something like this, but experienced similar if the average stack was under 20BB (and almost every played hands must be preflop allin/fold), i lost way too much 80-20% for me...

Compare to WPN, i didnt notice so many similar one, in any other rooms, also not so many backdoor badbeat series. But i noticed different things, example the 4 kinds, pokers. i got - and got beaten - much more often than in WPN rooms by them in every other rooms i've played. Also in another room, if i was card dead almost every 2nd round when i was UTG i could end up with the nuts on the river, i often played for that - still do -, and it worked, works... seen it from top 1% guys, too, didnt get it why they do it, how they can be in massive profit, when they play like fools for first look...
3rd room was the backdoor flush draws place, i was chasing them in ITM by a given color, if 8-10 board have gone without them and it was at least a 3 way pot till river, it was highly profitable, often sent me to last 2 tables, FT.

About WPN, i had my longest up run there and the longest bad beat one, as well. i don't force to play there much anymore, just for fun, it is not for my nerves (and i can't really multitable 4-6 tourneys as they cut back their tourney offers so much in the last half, 1 year), i also find less wilder variance RNGs in other rooms, or at least until now it looks like that, maybe it is a bit early to declare, need 1-2k more tourney for that, but it pretty much looks like not 2-6 months up and 2-6 months down in the 200-600reg tourneys category, plus i have wilder tourney selection (that's maybe an other factor, but it hard to count in it any possible way).

The RNG algorithms are definitely different by networks, and there are some mid, long term patterns...
I guess, i'm over 20k tourneys in the last 3 years, so it cannot be simply just variance or imagination (especially i try to avoid high field tourneys, mostly play 200-600regs, sometimes around 1k). When i used some softwares - tried different ones - those just comfirmed it for me.

Nowadays, I didn't notice any new long time repetative patterns, what are very visible, but I am sure, they exist.

Otherwise, I don't think it is "cheating", just how different RNG algorithms work (even I don't like to play any hands vs. room sponsored players, if any at my table, i try to avoid get involved hands vs. against them, it is just generally a conflict of interest kinda situation for me.)
My main doubt is about company, room run bots... as it is possible, but never can be proven, that would mean the end of online poker...

gl!

 

[ADRI7HO]

Unfortunately, I also notice weirdness on the PS. For example, in front of ITM, I often get a card that I should actually go ahead with, but I’m dropping it lately because of my experience of falling out with it. in a significant percentage of cases, I did well to throw it away because I would have dropped out of the tournament and I don’t think that’s fair. :dontknow:
But I'm not a believer in conspiracy theory and I believe in even Santa and the Easter Bunny ...

 

[Spheremaster]

Hi all, strange things happen online - especially on PS...

have a nice day

 

[TerryBLE]

I believe it's random (although it doesn't seem like sometimes), they already profit a lot from the applied fees :deal:

 

[Sschafell]

if I believed that, I wouldn't have to play!

 

[danoscar]

I see others feel the same. I have given what I see a name:
Psa - player selected algorithm
When a player wins no matter what hand
PEA- player elimination algorithm
- when a big 10 hand gets beat by a 23 offsuit held by a larger bank, for example.
I have learned when 2 or more raise before me to watch out. (Pea'd on)
Cheers to you all!
Online ply involves knowing you are playing against both the other player and the software. Not so in real life.

 

[nee_cccccccc]

Only with 888Poker 😂

I dunno. I can't prove it.. it's a belief, after all. Perhaps, I'm just so unlucky playing in that platform.

 

[vittopio]

I think such thoughts visit any player from time to time! And it is impossible to believe in the honesty of the RNG dock!

 

[Luvepoker]

The RNG is random and I have no question at all about this. I have head all the conspiracy theory and that's all they are in my opinion.