CardsChat contributor, Jon Sofen, writes an opinion piece on Phil H with stats making a good claim to Phil's poker abilities. We all know Phil for his table banter and antics, but can anyone admit Phil Hellmuth is one poker player who is under-rated?

What say you?

Stats Don’t Lie: Phil Hellmuth is Better at Heads-Up Poker than You Might Think

The biggest bracelet winner in poker history a brilliant mind indeed! Debi I believe he has action but because he plays a lot he sometimes plays other players' action against themselves.

Originally Posted by Shells

CardsChat contributor, Jon Sofen, writes an opinion piece on Phil H with stats making a good claim to Phil's poker abilities. We all know Phil for his table banter and antics, but can anyone admit Phil Hellmuth is one poker player who is under-rated?

What say you?

Stats Don’t Lie: Phil Hellmuth is Better at Heads-Up Poker than You Might Think

Shells .... lol sorry lol

Originally Posted by TROS1984

Shells .... lol sorry lol

No worries.

Hellmuth is one of the most recognizable poker players in the world and has 15 WSOP bracelets....how can anyone say that he is underrated??

His playing style may not always be GTO but he clearly knows how to navigate large player fields filled with a wide range of skilled players and playing styles.

There's definitely lots to criticize about Phil, his ego, his playing style, his whining, his narcissist tendencies, his douche bagginess, and whatever else is easy pickings for criticism about him but his tournament results clearly speak for themselves.

I think he is a little dismissed as a serious pro due to his blow ups and petulant behaviour but you can't argue against his previous records and bracelets.

He was my favourite pro when I was younger which I feel goes some way towards understanding why I had (have) to get out of the habit of whining like a little cry baby and berating other players if I didn't like how they played... Look at the role model I chose.

Thankfully I know that, moving forward, I have a very different mentality to yesterday.

Originally Posted by Fivefor

Hellmuth is one of the most recognizable poker players in the world and has 15 WSOP bracelets....how can anyone say that he is underrated??

His playing style may not always be GTO but he clearly knows how to navigate large player fields filled with a wide range of skilled players and playing styles.

There's definitely lots to criticize about Phil, his ego, his playing style, his whining, his narcissist tendencies, his douche bagginess, and whatever else is easy pickings for criticism about him but his tournament results clearly speak for themselves.

There is no doubt Phil H has a big ego. In fact, I think there are MANY well known and not so well known poker players who have big egos and get a little creative with their verbage at a poker table etc. One of the biggest differences is, Phil H has given us more entertainment (and won a lot of WSOP bracelets) than most and it has lasted for years! even decades!

Edit: I personally like Phil H with and without all the antics. Does anyone think he has mellowed over the years?

What to say after you see that Hellmuth won 15 times in WSOP events, that is, more than anyone else in history? No words!

The thing with Phil is though is that 13 of 15 bracelets are in Holdem and 2 in Razz. So is he underrated? I do not think so.

He is entertaining to watch that's for sure and its great to see personalities like that especially in the times we live in. I almost think he is Terrell Owens (TO) so to speak in the way he handles himself when the camera is on.

Whether you love him or hate him, he is good to for the game and that is all I really care about.

You may not like him for his peculiar behavior and strange actions and words, but does this have anything to do with his poker abilities?

You may not respect Phil's personality, but Phil the player only deserves positive conversations.

No he is not.

Under-rated? According to who? Phil himself maybe, lol.

despite his temper, he plays too much

I don’t know if he is an underrated player but for sure, you can’t accidentally win 15 WSOP bracelets.
I think he's a very good player for sure. (Regardless of whether you sympathize or not what you do at the table sometimes.)

I don't like how he acts sometimes, but the man can play poker and is my Favorite player. Like it is said over and over his stats don't lie, he is one of the greatest players in poker. Covid 19 just might have cost him his 16th bracelet.

this is for people who say that poker is just luck, you also have to have the necessary talent to stand out ...

Because of his personality he's not the most likable person but we shouldn't take this too much into consideration when we're talking about his poker skills- this guy is just a monster and I respect guys like him the most because despite the fact he won pretty much everything and he can just 'retire', he continues to try to improve his game (not only nlhe but other mixed games too) and is a constant presence at the poker tables, trying to make the game he loves more popular(his books are also pretty good too) ... well done Poker Brat

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

Under-rated? According to who? Phil himself maybe, lol.

I was kind of feeling the same. Who would underrate someone with that Bracelets and winnings. Who is even in the position to do that? And why would he care.
I think in the end 99,9% of people who were ever dealt cards to would love to change positions with him.
You dont have to like him though. Yeah, he is rude sometimes. Yes he puts up to much show. He is entertaining that way though. And even if you wouldnt respect his personality you definitly must respect his game.

Many players say a lot for Hellmouth , his personality , his emotional verbal outbursts when he loses , especially to bad beats or bad players . But questioning his abilities to win muyst be out of the question . he might be not the top player in the money list , as some GTO players , but he is still one of the best , maybe the best , with his very good player's instict

I find Daniel's criticism interesting given his own biggest hole, which would be way more costly in a heads-up match.

His ability to put his opponents on a hand, be correct, and STILL pay them off. He admitted himself that he can be a calling station. Doug Polk will exploit that specific weakness if Daniel can't fix it and will beat him their own heads-up match. But, at the same token, Daniel's not stupid, he'll figure out a way to fix that leak because he knows Doug's specialty is HUNL.

But, Hellmuth underrated? I think so, because forget his ability to navigate through large field tournaments, because that's not the question - it's that his heads-up game is never discussed, and to win 15 bracelets plus numerous other tournaments, you HAVE to be good at heads-up poker to win. Sure, you have to be lucky too, but Phil's results speak for themselves.

As others have said, "under-rated" is a stretch when you are already regarded as one of the best (if not the best) poker player around. Perhaps a better way of phrasing this would be something like: "Phil Hellmuth is one of the pro players of this era not given enough credit for certain elements of their poker game."

Playing GTO poker and more ABC styles always seems to make you more predictable - perhaps this is one reason Hellmuth ignored "holes in his game" - there is little need to fix a weakness if it isn't being exploited. Let us say you are playing a poker game with a bunch of nitty fish - wouldn't it make sense to naturally loosen up and raise more? Less need for "balance" and "GTO" if you are not being exploited for it. Could be the same situation here. Hellmuth "gets away" with these "holes" (I'm sure he is well aware of what those "holes" are) because his opponents' are not exploiting them enough; once they begin to do so, he can simply shift gears and adapt.

Lots of pro players do this - Hellmuth is not special in this sense. However, I am not 100% sure why Hellmuth is seen as "under-rated" when others aren't to the same degree.

Maybe it is subconscious evaluation from Hellmuth's many YouTube blowups and lost hands rather than his recent results and victories. Perhaps it implants the subconscious idea that Hellmuth loses more than he actually does and is therefore seen as "under-rated" when you view his stats and career bracelets.

He's a great tournament player, maybe the best ever.. got all the experience and he seems to be relying on it much more than being game theory optimal. Plus he's been winning consistently for more than three decades. Massive respect to him.

If he was more humble people would love him more I guess.

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

Under-rated? According to who? Phil himself maybe, lol.

He called a raise with Queen Ten honey.

Spoiler alert!

Click to Reveal!

You Tube

Phil doesn't get love because he's a jerk at the table. Everyone knows he's one of the greatest ever to play the game, and they'd probably say it more if he didn't constantly remind everyone of that very thing.

underrated, not overrated? are you sure people define those words properly?

Not sure he's underrated. He's won too many bracelets to slide under anyone's radar. I miss the days of poker after dark. I really enjoyed the conversations during those games and all of the great players Phil H included..

Phil is the man how many all the money he has and the bracelets

There's a method to his madness and it works for him. Everybody has their thing. The thing that makes them marketable. For Phil H it's the way he wears his emotions on his sleeves. TV ratings definitely go up when he's playing. It's like you get tired of his fussing but it's entertaining at the same time. Even watching the other players react to him LOL! He's been in the game a while so something must be working for him. He uses his fussing as a distraction.

Tony G underestimates Phil Hellmuth or just tries to cheer him up.

You Tube

a little bit...=p

Hello. One of my favorites. Read his books, followed some ideas. I would chance to say that Phil Helmuth is rated where he should be. In spite of his temper. Kind of crazy, you know.

Hellmuth has no chance to compete with the highest level players.

As Tony G says Helmuth is "qualified".

He is probably a better live poker player than online.

The best players online have to adapt and make sure there are no leaks to play against the best.

Originally Posted by Kadgaron

Hellmuth has no chance to compete with the highest level players.

I agree - he would get crushed online playing only online regs. However, where he is excels is playing against rec's - he is great at exploiting and extracting chips from them.

Phil Helmuth, Devilfish and Victoria Coren at one table, my favourite clip of all time:

You Tube

Watch as Hellmuth acts like the adult in the room :P

He's a good player he knows the game well. But nowadays theres plenty poker players that have the same qualities. Although those bracelets he has don't come cheap. Especially nowadays

I think he is a great NL Live MTT player and he is very underrated. In other formats he may be overrated.

I love Phil and I think he is extremely intuitive. Yes, he is underrated and if it wasn't for luck he would win every hand LOL! I'm a fan.

Originally Posted by Shells

CardsChat contributor, Jon Sofen, writes an opinion piece on Phil H with stats making a good claim to Phil's poker abilities. We all know Phil for his table banter and antics, but can anyone admit Phil Hellmuth is one poker player who is under-rated?

What say you?

Stats Don’t Lie: Phil Hellmuth is Better at Heads-Up Poker than You Might Think

Don’t know if he is under rated or over rated but he has definitely not overcame with Fact of luck in the game of poker.

He reminds me of this senior lady from the Local poker community, where she will bitch about how I play with crap hands (only if she looses) but never tried to adapt her own game to play against me.

I certainly don’t play with such hands anymore or not as frequent but there will always be people who will.

So Adapt. Hate the game not the player!

He's better than the reg player attitude towards him. He's quite nitty and folds a lot but he makes loads of good decisions and he's great for the game.

Love the meltdowns!

I just watched Round 2 of his Highstakes Duel vs Esfandiari today and it was another masterclass.

His raw ability is definitely under-rated by mainstream fans and younger poker players.

Depending on the format, he is world-class. Obviously live big field NLHE tournaments being his preferred format, but he is very good in live headsup SNG format as well.

Everybody has favoured formats and everybody is better at some formats than others, but Hellmuth gets excessive criticism for not being good at cash games and online.

He doesn't play the cool formats of today (online HU & 6max Cash & live Super High Roller tournaments) and therefore his overall ability is brought into question, so yes, he is under-rated by a certain section of the poker community. For example, nobody questions Fedor Holz' overall ability, even though Hellmuth has been at the top for 30 years and counting.

Fun bits:
Check out King of the Hill from 2017 and an infamous hand vs Jungleman.

Check out NBC National Headsup Poker Championship, winner in 2005 and runner-up in 2013.

Phil is my favorite player been watching for years he might not act great all the time but look at other stars in other sports. Winning all those bracelets can;t be all luck.

I think it's his trick that he is underestimated and he wins bracelet after bracelet

His raw ability is definitely under-rated

Originally Posted by ProfessorGrind

I agree - he would get crushed online playing only online regs. However, where he is excels is playing against rec's - he is great at exploiting and extracting chips from them.

100% accurate, but remember, the online regs make up a VERY small number of people in the grand scheme of things. He's a live player anyway, and when things open up again, expect that he'll continue to make a run towards winning future bracelets. He's still young enough that he has time to add to his collection.

It would be interesting to see what number he ends up at. 25? It's not out of the question.

Originally Posted by Shells

CardsChat contributor, Jon Sofen, writes an opinion piece on Phil H with stats making a good claim to Phil's poker abilities. We all know Phil for his table banter and antics, but can anyone admit Phil Hellmuth is one poker player who is under-rated?

What say you?

Stats Don’t Lie: Phil Hellmuth is Better at Heads-Up Poker than You Might Think

I am not going to agree that somehow Phil is a heads-up crusher. I believe Heads-up poker is a different event from Tournament poker. I have to say that Phil takes a bunch of crap from people about how awful he is, BUT his results at big field tournaments tells a different story. Phil has my respect, I am not a fan of his table antics, but he gets the job done.

Originally Posted by zaza123123

His raw ability is definitely under-rated

Today I already answered a similar question to one person. Hellmuth has never been lacking in self confidence, calling himself "the best player in the no limit hold'em of all time." In this, of course, he is subjective, but with such an impressive list of titles won, Phil, at least, has the right to make such a statement.




Life is a game , play beautiful

Phil is way underrated he is the poker brat great player just a really bad attitude he acts like a dokey to much that's way people don't
Like him but he is a great player and actually a nice guy of the poker table

Originally Posted by roguelikeme

Phil Helmuth, Devilfish and Victoria Coren at one table, my favourite clip of all time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liDO...l=partypokerTV

Watch as Hellmuth acts like the adult in the room :P

Actually just watched this video now. Devilfish and The Poker Brat at the same table....now THAT is entertainment.
(I miss Devilfish )

I love Phil !!! He is a very good player. They only issue is that his blow ups are all memes