Ontario online poker may have a new look on April 4, 2022? (including updates)

[CRStals]

Thanks for compiling all this info CRStals, Belizebum, Shells, I had heard about this, and it's nice to see all the information in one place.

I sure hope that ACR can continue to operate and give us access to those big prize pools.

Wondering what the prize pools will look like and if it will lead to the games ultimately becoming tougher or easier.

It seems like most of the places that have gone ring fenced end up having softer competition overall, so maybe that's a good thing?

Hoping that things will be ok for the other streamers in the province as well, not fun when the government throws out an unexpected curveball like this.

Good to hear from you Evan! My sense is ACR is unaffected as they don't go after licenses in regulated markets so I'd expect no change with them.

I have heard that competition is softer at micro and lower stakes on fenced in sites but mid to high stakes is hard to grind out a living with a limited player pool so it'll be interesting to see what happens to people like Ryan Riske who often grinds high level cash if there's a big enough pool to sustain him.

The other interesting angle will be what the series look like. Will wsop run a bracelet or ring event? Will Stars run ONOOP? I suspect we won't know that right away...

I doubt streamers will be affected other than the quality of the play they have access to but it's tough to know what that looks like until the sites launch, traffic established, and most importantly, what the appetite is for viewership on Twitch. It'll be hard to compete against some other streamers in other markets that can broadcast bigger games like the Sunday Million.

 

[Shells]

My sense is ACR is unaffected as they don't go after licenses in regulated markets so I'd expect no change with them.

I

I would expect no change until the government decides they do not wish to have unregulated sites as an option? Just a thought ....

 

[belizebum]

If you are looking to find a way to help change things up, belizebum posted a link to a petition.

Yes please sign the petition, even if not from Ontario, every little bit might help. I also understand that if the platform not quite ready April 4th, Ontario will not black out. Probably have a month to get their platform working. Again, Ontario is not the most progressive province, even though they say they are, so take the "no black out" with a grain of salt.

 

[Tredford]

Here's the dilemna...given the market is 15ish million people, what would the traffic look like split 4 ways like this? My gut tells me that Stars and WSOP.ca would get the most, Party 3rd and 888 4th but will there be enough traffic to sustain all 4?

I have read "PokerStars has confirmed that it plans to launch operations in Ontario" but they are looking for a "good deal" (low tax rate). And we all know the tax rate will affect the rake.

If we compare ON to Michigan, Ontario is about 50% bigger, but I would be interested to know what the ratio of population to poker players is between the two regions.
Michigan has PS, BetMGM (which is PP) and WSOP/888 ("soon").
Just looking at PokerStars, last year they had their MI Classic, MICOOP, MISCOOP, MI Summer Series etc..

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Are there any streamers in MI that we can ask about their experience the past year?
Just searching, I found an article about Twitcher David Kaye in MI. He plays ~20 MTTs on Sunday, which sounds like its about half the tables some of the twitchers I follow in Alberta (but is that due to availability / quality or personal limit?). He also plays Mon-Weds.[/FONT]

I foresee other provinces joining ON in the coming years.
Miserly loves company almost as much as governments like tax revenue!

 

[ritz_avalanche]

Yes please sign the petition, even if not from Ontario, every little bit might help. I also understand that if the platform not quite ready April 4th, Ontario will not black out. Probably have a month to get their platform working. Again, Ontario is not the most progressive province, even though they say they are, so take the "no black out" with a grain of salt.

I did sign the petition but I think the signatures are very less

There is no black out if the poker site has applied for license. Let's see what happens but am not too optimistic

 

[Tredford]

BetRivers received a license for Ontario.
https://www.gambling.com/ca/news/be...book-to-go-live-in-ontario-on-april-4-3090400
It sounds like they have NLHE as one of their table games.
Anyone in the US heard of them?

So far licensed poker sites:
BetRivers, WSOP (GGpoker), 888poker
Waiting for:
pokerstars, partypoker ... others?

 

[CRStals]

BetRivers received a license for Ontario.
https://www.gambling.com/ca/news/be...book-to-go-live-in-ontario-on-april-4-3090400
It sounds like they have NLHE as one of their table games.
Anyone in the US heard of them?

So far licensed poker sites:
BetRivers, WSOP (GGpoker), 888poker
Waiting for:
PokerStars, PartyPoker ... others?

I seriously doubt BetRivers launches poker - given the advertisinig they have been doing here for weeks they seem focused on the sports betting and casino side of the business.

PartyPoker have announced they will be in the mix in Ontario (Collette Stewart announced this in the PartyPoker canada Facebook group) but have not been formally awarded a license so I'd count them in.

The only real player left is PokerStars which are pursing a license but no news on if it was awarded or not.

unibet have indicated to Ontario customers they are out for poker so don't expect anything from them.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I'm really puzzled about this, because only the federal government has jurisdiction over ANY internet activity in Canada.

The provinces only have jurisdiction over brick and mortar sites.

The airwaves (which include the internet), are controlled by the Canadian Radio, and Telecommunications Commision.

For Ontario to get a rule change, they would have to go through the federal government to achieve that.

I'm not saying they haven't, but I have not seen, or heard anything about that.

If it does happen, so much for freedom of choice.

There's been an online poker site in B.C. for a dozen years now (or more?) PlayNow More recently they're share a player pool with PlayNow Manitoba & PlayNow Quebec. (not sure about size of player pool as I haven't played on there.... yet)

 

[Poker Orifice]

So it's safe to assume that there will be options for Ontario:
GG Poker / WSOP.ca
888 Poker
PartyPoker
PokerStars*

Here's the dilemna...given the market is 15ish million people, what would the traffic look like split 4 ways like this? My gut tells me that Stars and WSOP.ca would get the most, Party 3rd and 888 4th but will there be enough traffic to sustain all 4?

I'd think that anyone playing tournaments will NEED to be playing on ALL 4 sites in hopes of getting enough games to even fill up their screens. Who plays on just one site? (even when player pools consist of R.O.W. players.)

 

[CRStals]

I'd think that anyone playing tournaments will NEED to be playing on ALL 4 sites in hopes of getting enough games to even fill up their screens. Who plays on just one site? (even when player pools consist of R.O.W. players.)

That's true actually - in the current environment I'm on 5 regularily (Stars, Party, GG, ACR, BOL) but I fear that in our new world some of these sites won't be able to exist without a certain level of traffic that I don't necessarly see happening. Example - I've gone onto some poker rooms at times convenient for EST/EDT players and some room have little to nothing going on.

So...needless to say it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Footnote: I plan on being in at least two of the licensed rooms, possibly 3 depending on how things look.

 

[Jackmagic]

It's good to have options on where to play online but too many options will thin the player pool once the provincial restrictions are in place.
Now I know where the 1 billion in lost revenue from no fee vehicle license plate renewal the government recently announced will come from.

 

[frank174]

No quite right and maybe we have been lucky to have gone this long before regulation.

But...as I mentioned before the problem here is compounded by a lack of support and infrastructure for live poker. In theory if a player played professionally online could they transition to live and they could if there were enough tables to tap into. But there just isn't. Niagara is the only place with two established rooms within a 30 min drive of each other and only Fallsview has ever shown interest in big time MTT poker with the WPT.

Poker is overshadowed here by sportsbetting as it is everywhere but unlike most other places in the world without a vibrant live poker game it is going to force pros at that level out, stemming the growth if there is a ceiling to which one can play.

What I am now interested to know is what is traffic like on ringed in sites like PokerStars USA? Do they offer all of the same variety as the global site and how reduced are tournaments?

Fallsview poker room isnt that large ,when I was last there there was 1 $5- $ 10 table and only 2 $2- $5 tables with only 2 player's on the waiting list,very little action and no tournaments what so ever,the landscape for poker in Ontario sucks,now its been over 2 years since I have been there

 

[ritz_avalanche]

Hopefully the cardschat freerolls will be accessible to Ontario players because freerolls don't need to be ring fenced coz dey r freerolls after all

 

[CRStals]

Hopefully the cardschat freerolls will be accessible to Ontario players because freerolls don't need to be ring fenced coz dey r freerolls after all

No this is not true. If a site is fenced in, CC freerolls will NOT be accessible as the site cannot access the global player pool. This is why you can't play on our freerolls on Stars from Michigan for example.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Hopefully the legislation is soon amended to include all Canadian players coz else the players pool could be small.

Umm.. hopefully.. NOT.

 

[rachelle2291]

Online poker used to be very inclusive. Governments just have to screw up everything.

 

[ritz_avalanche]

No this is not true. If a site is fenced in, CC freerolls will NOT be accessible as the site cannot access the global player pool. This is why you can't play on our freerolls on Stars from Michigan for example.

Thanks for clarifying. My last hope is diminished as well

 

[Chase]

There's been an online poker site in B.C. for a dozen years now (or more?) PlayNow More recently they're share a player pool with PlayNow Manitoba & PlayNow Quebec. (not sure about size of player pool as I haven't played on there.... yet)

Playnow works well for me!

It's government regulated. They don't have a large player pool and they don't have a ton of games. I only play one tournament at a time with somewhere between 100 - 200 players. For me that's a BIG PLUS, not a negative. They usually have a one hour late registration period and the games generally last 3 - 5 hours, which again I really like.

They have online chat and telephone support. Deposits and withdrawals are simple and direct to/from my bank account, no exchange rate/currency conversion or any other kind of fees. They have virtually no gimmicks, just plain old poker.

There are very few cash tables running at any particular time. By very few I mean 1 - 2 at each buy-in level most of the time. I would not like it if I just played cash games.

It's interesting how few players there are considering the player pool comes from 3 provinces. The combined population of the three is roughly the same as Ontario. I know a lot of people would rather play on the big offshore sites, but I don't see why for the average low stakes recreational player.

They have their own freerolls. No passwords or affiliations required - all are welcome. I asked Debi if Cardschat would be providing freerolls at Playnow and she said they have no plans to do so.

Online poker used to be very inclusive. Governments just have to screw up everything.

Nothing is screwed up at Playnow. It all works very well.

 

[Poker Orifice]

Playnow works well for me!

It's government regulated. They don't have a large player pool and they don't have a ton of games. I only play one tournament at a time with somewhere between 100 - 200 players. For me that's a BIG PLUS, not a negative. They usually have a one hour late registration period and the games generally last 3 - 5 hours, which again I really like.

They have online chat and telephone support. Deposits and withdrawals are simple and direct to/from my bank account, no exchange rate/currency conversion or any other kind of fees. They have virtually no gimmicks, just plain old poker.

There are very few cash tables running at any particular time. By very few I mean 1 - 2 at each buy-in level most of the time. I would not like it if I just played cash games.

It's interesting how few players there are considering the player pool comes from 3 provinces. The combined population of the three is roughly the same as Ontario. I know a lot of people would rather play on the big offshore sites, but I don't see why for the average low stakes recreational player.

They have their own freerolls. No passwords or affiliations required - all are welcome. I asked Debi if Cardschat would be providing freerolls at Playnow and she said they have no plans to do so.

Nothing is screwed up at Playnow. It all works very well.

Thanks for the information.

Could you possibly post a screenshot of the Tournament Lobby on PlayNow?

I'm guessing that even though player pools would be approx. equal (between PlayNow & Ontario), Ontario sites will likely have many more players seeing as they'll be limited to playing only on those sites (along with unregulated ones).

 

[Chase]

Thanks for the information.

Could you possibly post a screenshot of the Tournament Lobby on PlayNow?

I'm guessing that even though player pools would be approx. equal (between PlayNow & Ontario), Ontario sites will likely have many more players seeing as they'll be limited to playing only on those sites (along with unregulated ones).

I'd be delighted Poker Orifice as soon as I figure out how to post a screenshot.

In the meantime was there something specific you were interested in? It's small, but not that small. I could refine to buy-in levels, R&A, guaranteed prize pools, perhaps freerolls, time period (morning, day, night), etc.

 

[Poker Orifice]

I'd be delighted Poker Orifice as soon as I figure out how to post a screenshot.

In the meantime was there something specific you were interested in? It's small, but not that small. I could refine to buy-in levels, R&A, guaranteed prize pools, perhaps freerolls, time period (morning, day, night), etc.

I'm curious about NLHE MTT's, $10 to $50 buyin level.

tks

 

[Chase]

I'm curious about NLHE MTT's, $10 to $50 buyin level.

tks

Here is a list for $11 - $55:

 

[Chase]

I'm curious about NLHE MTT's, $10 to $50 buyin level.

tks

This list shows mostly finished games so you can see how small the player pool is for each game. The bottom one that I highlighted is particularly interesting. I don't believe there are any re-entries, rebuys or add-ons available for this one. Only 154 entrants. The game only lasted 4.5 hrs. The 1st place winner paid $24 to play and walked away with $843.61. If you play these regularly and make it to the top 5 most of the time (which is not unrealistic for a strong player) your average win is $468 (less $24 buy-in) = $444 or a little over $90 per hour.

Factoring in bad beats and just plain bad luck days you could probably cut that in half and still earn $45 per hour.

 

[ritz_avalanche]

This list shows mostly finished games so you can see how small the player pool is for each game. The bottom one that I highlighted is particularly interesting. I don't believe there are any re-entries, rebuys or add-ons available for this one. Only 154 entrants. The game only lasted 4.5 hrs. The 1st place winner paid $24 to play and walked away with $843.61. If you play these regularly and make it to the top 5 most of the time (which is not unrealistic for a strong player) your average win is $468 (less $24 buy-in) = $444 or a little over $90 per hour.

Factoring in bad beats and just plain bad luck days you could probably cut that in half and still earn $45 per hour.

Thanks for posting the screenshots.
Are there good options for below $10 buying?

 

[Ron112355]

Came here for an update on Ontario Poker getting Geo-Fenced come April 4th but seems this thread has been hijacked. Anyone have anything to add that actually lives and plays in this province