Online poker is not beatable!?

[GWU73]

I recently read an article about variance. Basically it said if your win rate is under 5bb/100 and play a lot of hands every month you have nearly a 90% chance of experiencing a huge downswing in one month that can eat up more than 10 buy-ins, and something like a 15-20% chance of suffering a 50 buy-in downswing during the course of the year. So the whole point of the article is with win rates being so much lower online (vs live), you stand a better chance of busting, even though may be a winner over the long haul. I have experienced a couple of the 10 buy in swings down, and they suck. I'm currently using online to re-sharpen my skills so I can start going to the casino again, now that I wont be working crazy hours.

 

[oldgrinder63]

i believe ACR isn't beatable , I can't ever seem to run up a bankroll ever tournaments no go either.
On other sites like ignition , intertops and Bet online .
I can beat tourneys and run up a nice profit to cash out. now I know my game needs some work .
but I don't understand how i can run it up on other networks but not ACR .
I get in good and get run down more often than not.
he'll even a bad player can run it up once in a while. idk very frustrating so I don't deposit on that site anymore.
just freerolls

I had the same experience on ACR and I will never deposit there again! I simply do not trust them especially in light of new info I have received that it is possible and not that hard to manipulate dealing programs. However I admit I still do not know for sure one way or the other. We are all basically SOL until poker legalized and regulated by a gaming commision here in the USA! PS if I ever do find out that any site was manipulating dealing programs in anyway many people connected to said sight will SUFFER! By legal means of course.

 

[oldgrinder63]

Since only about 10% of poker players play profitable it is more than obvious that the beginners who start playing online will not be among them... Sure, You can get lucky and win a bigger sum in MTTs even if You are a newbie... But this money is also quickly lost again... The majority of players online simply doesnt have enough money to play with a decent bankroll and so their downswings will usually leave them broke...

I prefer playing live... First it is a much more skill based game and less gambling as in live poker You get a lot more reads on your opponents and it is much harder to not let your opponents read You. Onlnie it is more or less reduced to the math behind the game. And then there are the countless miracles I see online... Just too many... I don't really trust the sites anymore. You get your bad beats offline too but to me it seems to happen alot less often than online...

Thats a good point! I have grinded in cards room since 1980 and of course there are bad beats and I have seen insane bad beats watching the hundreds of hours of live poker you tube videos but it is so much different with olp and feels different anyone ever watch that guy magic post all these vids on bad beats he gets on poker stars? Its really amazing. In olp I have had days where I had 3-4 what I call 1-2 outer bad beats that means only 1 or 2 cards can save my opponent. If he had 7 plus outs it would not be so mind blowing, I am keeping track of 1-2 bad beats right now on club wpt and since 9-6-19 I have had 6.

 

[ozrock]

i believe ACR isn't beatable , I can't ever seem to run up a bankroll ever tournaments no go either.
On other sites like ignition , intertops and Bet online .
I can beat tourneys and run up a nice profit to cash out. now I know my game needs some work .
but I don't understand how i can run it up on other networks but not ACR .
I get in good and get run down more often than not.
he'll even a bad player can run it up once in a while. idk very frustrating so I don't deposit on that site anymore.
just freerolls

There is something seriously wrong with ACR, it is a place for suckers. I would never deposit there. I'll play there for fun and practice and that is it. I am amazed at how many times I get close to the money or just barely make it, after getting beat by narrow margin percentage hands that should never win live. Go out and play live, rarely see narrow margin hands win.

 

[finaltable1]

Is it that hard to understand several simple things?

1) Poker community is a community of losers.
2) Owners of the poker sites is a community of winners.

Rake separates winners from losers, those who pay rake are the losers. In daily $11 MTT, where $1 is the rake, all guaranteed prize pool will be pure profit for the casino owner during 11 days...

So if Poker community will work hard playing poker each day then whole community will be losing, while poker bosses will be winning. It doesn't matter who wins often in the community of losers, it might be Hellmuth, or Bryn Kenney, doesn't matter cause they're part of the losers team. However at the top level of world famous stars your influence is giving you extra profits, so you can't really be considered as one from the losers team.

online poker is like World War Two. germany attacks Russia, Russia defends and wins, BUT USA gets profit from landlease credit to Russia, gets scientist and half of Germany under control together with whole Japan, has heavy undamaged industry, while countries of possible concurrents are in ruins.

So, basically online poker is telling you "Guys you can have a nice fight, while I'll count your money in my pocket"

P.S. What is the difference for the computer server when it hosts 1)freeroll for 1000 players vs 2) $11 MTT for 1000 players vs 3) $109 MTT for 1000 players?

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[macha2003]

So, I have recently stumbled upon a post on FB from Vanessa Selbst. It is about her quitting poker and leaving pokerstars team. Among other reasons, one really caught my attention:


For me, online poker was never for money making but more of a source of fun, but still it didn't seem unbeatable. As a live player, I don't quite understand what she meant..
So, I am interested in your thoughts on this? Also, how do you feel playing online poker as oppose to playing live?

I love live but still enjoy hanging at home and play online. As long as I play small and do not worry about losing online games are fun. I really don't think I can make a lot of money but will still try

 

[DS3]

Its hard to define what Vanesa Selbst actually meant.

She's an interesting person. The fact she is extremely intelligent and perceptive off the table disguised (for a while) she played a flawed game based around hyper aggression. She might be one of the winningest women players of all time, but it was built on a house of cards and a weird self-sabotaging style. Its not a stretch to say she was never quite suited to poker.

That said, away from the table, she is a very bright and compassionate lawyer (I believe) and advocates for social causes. When calm, I don't think she is 'casually' making a statement about the difficulty of being a winning player at pokerstars. I am going to presume it is not solely the idea players/competition have improved but that the on-line game also has some inherent problems...

 

[sergo1203]

I play online because I like playing poker !! if I win, then this is very nice .. I was thinking about winning online poker.

 

[MattRyder]

Is it that hard to understand several simple things?

1) Poker community is a community of losers.
2) Owners of the poker sites is a community of winners.

Rake separates winners from losers, those who pay rake are the losers. In daily $11 MTT, where $1 is the rake, all guaranteed prize pool will be pure profit for the casino owner during 11 days...

So if Poker community will work hard playing poker each day then whole community will be losing, while poker bosses will be winning. It doesn't matter who wins often in the community of losers, it might be Hellmuth, or Bryn Kenney, doesn't matter cause they're part of the losers team. However at the top level of world famous stars your influence is giving you extra profits, so you can't really be considered as one from the losers team.

Online poker is like World War Two. Germany attacks Russia, Russia defends and wins, BUT USA gets profit from landlease credit to Russia, gets scientist and half of Germany under control together with whole Japan, has heavy undamaged industry, while countries of possible concurrents are in ruins.

So, basically online poker is telling you "Guys you can have a nice fight, while I'll count your money in my pocket"

P.S. What is the difference for the computer server when it hosts 1)freeroll for 1000 players vs 2) $11 MTT for 1000 players vs 3) $109 MTT for 1000 players?

Can't argue. If by "losers" you mean net monetary losers, there's no question, the average online poker player does lose more than he/she will ever win. And, yes, the US did make a killing monetarily from WW2.

 

[syarbouh]

In my opinion it's beatable you just have to bleed for it!

 

[finaltable1]

Can't argue. If by "losers" you mean net monetary losers, there's no question, the average online poker player does lose more than he/she will ever win. And, yes, the US did make a killing monetarily from WW2.

Thanks, but actually that's not all.
Online poker players are also losing the time. Life is not a never ending process. Time spent for poker could be spent with much better value, in terms of money, health and happiness. Even live poker is better than online, cause players meet each other and can talk and have fun. Quite often online poker players are sitting for many hours per day with no communication. I kinda miss good old days when PokerStars temporarily blocked 15 accounts cause we've been playing online poker from the same restaurant together with live cash games.

Online poker is a drug, legal and easy to find... Bets and bluffs increase serotonin and dophamin. Poker bosses are the drug lords, poker pros and regs are the drug dealers, from such point of view LOL CardsChat is both starting platform for newbs and rehabilitation clinic for retirees, where we can meet and talk about the time spent without or waiting for a new doze. :vollkomme

 

[MattRyder]

Perhaps for some. I have "money, health and happiness", but still enjoy playing online poker. Other people enjoy building model airplanes, collecting coins, woodworking or a host of other non-social activities.

Rehabilitation clinic? Naw, tell me it isn't so.

Thanks, but actually that's not all.
Online poker players are also losing the time. Life is not a never ending process. Time spent for poker could be spent with much better value, in terms of money, health and happiness. Even live poker is better than online, cause players meet each other and can talk and have fun. Quite often online poker players are sitting for many hours per day with no communication. I kinda miss good old days when PokerStars temporarily blocked 15 accounts cause we've been playing online poker from the same restaurant together with live cash games.

Online poker is a drug, legal and easy to find... Bets and bluffs increase serotonin and dophamin. Poker bosses are the drug lords, poker pros and regs are the drug dealers, from such point of view LOL CardsChat is both starting platform for newbs and rehabilitation clinic for retirees, where we can meet and talk about the time spent without or waiting for a new doze. :vollkomme

 

[jfitzg414]

I like playing poker I really do but I like a fair game. I like the analogy above " you guys have a nice war while I rake your money" Not a true quote but it seems to portray the real truth. Quit playing online for my money only freeroll winnings. freerolls different all together bingo extraordinaire.

 

[charliej]

Key takeaway "for amateurs" and I think this is true. Solution? Play better. And online is a convenient and relative inexpensive way to learn. Can't play .05-.10 games at the casino.

 

[WSMFP1986]

I like online and there are many people that do profit from it, I take bad beats 1 at a time, it happens online and in live games, just step your game up and play to win

 

[ArmiSoo7]

How can you win in tournament if even 4 of a kind is not working?
https://ibb.co/gr60Qyx

 

[akgross]

Vanessa Selbst's internal tension turned out to be so serious that she could not step over herself and did not go against her conscience for the sake of money. Knowing the structure of the stars from the inside, she warns beginners from the mistakes and illusions of easy money in online poker. Only a person of high culture and morality can do this.

 

[Heresthecooler]

In my opinion, I don't think she was that great of a player. She was just a pro. She wouldn't have become a legend. It honestly depends on the site. Some players win more on different sites. The downside of this is many online poker sites have closed over the years. I had been up to two grand, twice, on Poker Nordica. The second run, was off of rakeback. I literally lost everything, got $10 rakeback the next day, and then went on a run. To think cards are only predetermined before each hand, is typical of a winning player. A player who doesn't make excuses, because of a winning ego. Then, when luck turns, it's rigged. Online poker requires a lot of discipline. Discipline that I no longer have, as when I'd play Omaha 8 for half the day, at a $5/$10 VIP table on the Merge Network. That was my prime, and unfortunately the Merge Network no longer exists, to my knowledge.

 

[AshJen]

Online Poker may cause mental distress. I think it discriminated against me because where I'm from. It always seems I lose to the same people online. Of course protect the house. So I beleive the employees of the site can see your hands. Its all recorded and monitored. At least its causing me to stress in life more. So to all Poker Web Companies the Gods are watching and they will punish all you. The virus is one wrath of God. I pray Karma on you 100 fold Amen

 

[bigthereal]

difficult because there are more collisions of good hands than in live poker
thats remarkable

 

[monkey23]

1st...learn how not to lose
2nd...let winning happen the same way that water flows over a stone in a river.

The farce is strong obi-wan.

 

[ObbleeXY]

As a live player, I don't quite understand what she meant..
So, I am interested in your thoughts on this?

It appears that she felt disingenuous encouraging people to put their time and effort into poker, as an opportunity to acquire wealth, when for most people they will simply be funding the pros' living.

I understand it. Although I'm no poker star, I work hard enough at it that I have an edge over those who don't (well, not all of them, but you know what I mean). If you work hard at something, it makes sense that you'll fare better than those who don't.

And I love poker. It is so interesting. The mechanics, the theory, the maths, the psychology. Truly fascinating. So if I want to play more, it makes sense to encourage friends to join my poker club. I can feel a bit bad winning against my friends. I want to invite more friends into the club, but struggle as they have less than an equal chance.

Imagine if that was your job. To lure punters into a game. Unsuspecting fish who may have less money to spare than sense. Encouraging gamblers. Participating in the industry which has ruined many lives.

It's a trope. We don't have to agree with the philosophy in general, but we all know that we get paid by the poor sap who thinks he's getting unlucky when you fleece him for his week's wages.

So, that's kind of how I see her reaction. If you're not a part of the solution, then you're part of the problem sort of thing.

My 2 worth anyway...(but I tend to overvalue...)

Cheers,
ObbleeXY

 

[monkey23]

if you can't beat it, you need to study more...in a technical way. And develop a better 'feel' for the character of, and the players at, the table you are playing at.

even winning players study...and if you are making the same losing mistakes over and over again, and expecting things to change for the better, you are fitting in with einstein's definition of insanity...and he was quite smart.

 

[pokerIbarelyknowher]

I agree online cash games are no longer beatable. At least in my experience, everyone is way to nitty online. 90% of players check-fold anything less than a monster and when they do play you know they have you beat. Sure you can find a good game every now and then or make nuts over second nuts and get a nice ego boost. But long term there is no money to be made as long as online players remain so nitty.

 

[carborun]

I've never played live, yet, but as a winning online player at the upper micros I always assumed live poker would be wayyy easier because people go the casino to gamble, and then migrate to the poker tables thinking it's still just gambling.

I would imagine I'd be able to hit like 50bb/100+ on a Friday night if I run hot and get good position at 1/2. This is just my speculation though.