Just how random ARE the random card generators in poker?

kon44

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This is literally his favourite pastime activity when he isn't running his lower completed draws into the nuts.
Ahhhhahahaha.... I’ve had to calm myself as your comment has almost sent me A&E ffs. 💯% Comedy Gold!! 🤪😝🤣😂😅

Analogy Of The Month!! Like popping reps at the gym 🙈
 
puzzlefish

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Ahhhhahahaha.... I’ve had to calm myself as your comment has almost sent me A&E ffs. 💯% Comedy Gold!! 🤪😝🤣😂😅

Analogy Of The Month!! Like popping reps at the gym 🙈
When I get drunk I lay out huge speed bump-sized lines of cocaine, running from corner to corner on album covers. The booze causes me to crave that stuff and helps me to forget how much I dislike doing it. You see I'm a former International smuggler and always had access to as much as I wanted (nothing exceeds like excess!).

So... today I do not get drunk! I don't ever take that first drink & haven't had one now for almost 20years. :)

Cool. My family thinks I should pursue this for a profession.

I'm a retired International drug smuggler, former bodyguard. Today I help people.
Just so you know who you're dealing with here.
 
A

allysdad67

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Bad beats on river to one outers and worst hand hitting miracle turn and river happen too often to ve random
 
Z

zaza88

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yes, the generators are truly random (not only statiscally). As stated in a video above pokerstars uses hardware (True random numbers generators aka TRNG) to generate the numbers (cards).

That means the numbers are generated by random physical process (impossible to replicate the process in order to be able to know the next card even using same hardware).

Thanks @acidburnfx . The video was enlightening...

'Luck is probability taken personally'
 
romerim

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Pokerstar 100% manipulation. Whoever defends it, prove me wrong.
 
romerim

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I play betting on Americas Cardroom, 888 poker, party poker and I've NEVER had any problems, but pokerstar just goes in to play a freeroll and the manipulation is clear. I don't even waste my time or money on this dodgy site.
 
Dimidrol2

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It's so random that I'm sitting around from all the bedbits. I have an AB at the opponent A10 and 10 brings a straight to the opponent. I have a KK from the opponent VC and BB on the turn, then the all-river response is 5% and brings him BBB. If you won a ticket via satellite, have a bedbit.
 
okeedokalee

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ChatGPT found this:

HOW ONLINE POKER SHUFFLE THE CARDS​


algorithm icon

Legitimate online casino rooms use computerized algorithms to fairly shuffle and distribute cards.

  1. Each suited card in the deck is assigned a unique identifier (e.g., a number between 1 and 208)
  2. Before the start of each hand, the deck is 'created' by using a random number generator, randomly ordering these numbers.
  3. Once the deck has been built, the hand is then dealt as it would be in a live game with each player being given two cards, starting with the small blind.
Technically speaking, there are two ways an online poker site can generate the numbers to order their deck, either by using a PRNG or a TRNG.

PRNG​

PRNG stands for pseudo-random Number generator and is so-called as the randomness is simulated through an algorithm rather than naturally generated. The numbers a PRNG generates can never be called truly random as they're determined by an initial value, called a 'seed'.

PRNGs are often extremely complicated algorithms and nigh on impossible to reverse engineer without a large amount of information on how the specific algorithm works. That coupled with the benefit of speed when generating numbers makes them very useful for online poker.

However, not all PRNGs are created equal and some are a lot better than others. If a site you play on uses a PRNG it's important that you check out their credentials to make sure their PRNG has been verified.

For example, Party Poker uses a PRNG and uses an external lab to audit the fairness of the PRNG every month and posts their findings on their website.

TRNG​

TRNG stands for true random number generator and is so-called as the numbers it generates are completely random. There is no algorithm used to generate the numbers, instead, they use naturally random methods to determine a numerical sequence.

Pokerstars is the most prominent online poker site to use a TRNG and they use two methods combined to come up with their random numbers. The first method they use to generate random numbers is to shoot a ray of light at a piece of translucent glass; if the light is reflected it is a 1, if it is not it is a 0.

Secondly, they track the mouse movements and clicks of each player to generate a second stream of 1s and 0s. All of that is then connected and cryptographed to generate a completely random stream of 1s and 0s from which the numbers 1 to 52 are extracted to make a completely random deck.

The randomness of poker is similar to the randomness of slot games.

ONLINE POKER SOFTWARE SECURITY​


cyber security icon

The only way to verify if a site's PRNG is truly random, or if a site that uses a TRNG isn't 'rigging the system' is to have them audited by an outside company. We as players don't have enough information to be able to verify sites ourselves so we rely on poker site operators and gaming regulators to independently verify the legitimacy of online poker sites.

Many trusted poker sites will do this of their own accord as they know that be open and transparent with their players about the legitimacy of their operations is a good way to keep players on their site. For example, we've already mentioned that Party Poker has an independent company audit their PRNG every month, and PokerStars regularly sends detailed data on their RNG to Cigital for them to verify that their game is truly random.

After the Ultimate Bet scandal where one of the site owners used a back door in the software to view people's hole cards, online poker sites are now very careful about who in their company gets access to the backend of the system and anyone who does have access is banned from playing on that site in the interest of fairness.

PLAY WITH A LEGIT ONLINE POKER SOFTWARE​


If you're planning to play on a new site but are unsure about whether or not it's fully above-board, what should you do? My advice would be to look out for the following things, if they tick all these boxes they're likely a legitimate site.

Certificate​

Having their random number generator certified by a trusted third-party cybersecurity company is a great indicator that their site is legitimate. It shows that they have nothing to hide in the way they run the most important part of the site and you'll know that you will get a fair game.

Active Customer Support​

An active customer support shows that they care about their customers and are willing to help solve any issues you might encounter whilst playing on their site. If a company doesn't offer this then at best they don't care about their customers and at worst they're trying to hide something from their customers.

Positive Reviews​

Knowing the opinions of other players who have played on a site can be a great way to know if the site is worth playing on. If other players have had good experiences and are willing to share, you will likely have one too. However, if a lot of players have bad experiences on the site, it's also likely that you'll have a bad experience as well.

License​

In the majority of countries around the world, an online poker site must have a license in order to operate and offer real money games. If a site is licensed it means they must comply with the rules from the gambling regulators in the jurisdiction and will face penalties if they don't. If a site is not licensed, they are not regulated by these rules and there is no punishment for running a dishonest game.

Despite what some people at your local home game might think, online poker sites are fair in the way they use random number generators to shuffle and deal cards.
 
romerim

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Unfortunately, in practice it is very different.
 
puzzlefish

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ChatGPT found this:

HOW ONLINE POKER SHUFFLE THE CARDS​


algorithm icon

Legitimate online casino rooms use computerized algorithms to fairly shuffle and distribute cards.

  1. Each suited card in the deck is assigned a unique identifier (e.g., a number between 1 and 208)
  2. Before the start of each hand, the deck is 'created' by using a random number generator, randomly ordering these numbers.
  3. Once the deck has been built, the hand is then dealt as it would be in a live game with each player being given two cards, starting with the small blind.
Technically speaking, there are two ways an online poker site can generate the numbers to order their deck, either by using a PRNG or a TRNG.

PRNG​

PRNG stands for pseudo-random Number generator and is so-called as the randomness is simulated through an algorithm rather than naturally generated. The numbers a PRNG generates can never be called truly random as they're determined by an initial value, called a 'seed'.

PRNGs are often extremely complicated algorithms and nigh on impossible to reverse engineer without a large amount of information on how the specific algorithm works. That coupled with the benefit of speed when generating numbers makes them very useful for online poker.

However, not all PRNGs are created equal and some are a lot better than others. If a site you play on uses a PRNG it's important that you check out their credentials to make sure their PRNG has been verified.

For example, Party Poker uses a PRNG and uses an external lab to audit the fairness of the PRNG every month and posts their findings on their website.

TRNG​

TRNG stands for true random number generator and is so-called as the numbers it generates are completely random. There is no algorithm used to generate the numbers, instead, they use naturally random methods to determine a numerical sequence.

Pokerstars is the most prominent online poker site to use a TRNG and they use two methods combined to come up with their random numbers. The first method they use to generate random numbers is to shoot a ray of light at a piece of translucent glass; if the light is reflected it is a 1, if it is not it is a 0.

Secondly, they track the mouse movements and clicks of each player to generate a second stream of 1s and 0s. All of that is then connected and cryptographed to generate a completely random stream of 1s and 0s from which the numbers 1 to 52 are extracted to make a completely random deck.

The randomness of poker is similar to the randomness of slot games.

ONLINE POKER SOFTWARE SECURITY​


cyber security icon

The only way to verify if a site's PRNG is truly random, or if a site that uses a TRNG isn't 'rigging the system' is to have them audited by an outside company. We as players don't have enough information to be able to verify sites ourselves so we rely on poker site operators and gaming regulators to independently verify the legitimacy of online poker sites.

Many trusted poker sites will do this of their own accord as they know that be open and transparent with their players about the legitimacy of their operations is a good way to keep players on their site. For example, we've already mentioned that Party Poker has an independent company audit their PRNG every month, and PokerStars regularly sends detailed data on their RNG to Cigital for them to verify that their game is truly random.

After the Ultimate Bet scandal where one of the site owners used a back door in the software to view people's hole cards, online poker sites are now very careful about who in their company gets access to the backend of the system and anyone who does have access is banned from playing on that site in the interest of fairness.

PLAY WITH A LEGIT ONLINE POKER SOFTWARE​


If you're planning to play on a new site but are unsure about whether or not it's fully above-board, what should you do? My advice would be to look out for the following things, if they tick all these boxes they're likely a legitimate site.

Certificate​

Having their random number generator certified by a trusted third-party cybersecurity company is a great indicator that their site is legitimate. It shows that they have nothing to hide in the way they run the most important part of the site and you'll know that you will get a fair game.

Active Customer Support​

An active customer support shows that they care about their customers and are willing to help solve any issues you might encounter whilst playing on their site. If a company doesn't offer this then at best they don't care about their customers and at worst they're trying to hide something from their customers.

Positive Reviews​

Knowing the opinions of other players who have played on a site can be a great way to know if the site is worth playing on. If other players have had good experiences and are willing to share, you will likely have one too. However, if a lot of players have bad experiences on the site, it's also likely that you'll have a bad experience as well.

License​

In the majority of countries around the world, an online poker site must have a license in order to operate and offer real money games. If a site is licensed it means they must comply with the rules from the gambling regulators in the jurisdiction and will face penalties if they don't. If a site is not licensed, they are not regulated by these rules and there is no punishment for running a dishonest game.

Despite what some people at your local home game might think, online poker sites are fair in the way they use random number generators to shuffle and deal cards.
ChatGPT has spoken and it is so.
 
okeedokalee

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If we don't believe that the deal is random surely it is futile to participate...?
 
Poker Orifice

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@Poker Orifice, your aggression is baffling to me.... Your shortsighted presentation is equally baffling..... Rearranging and altering what I said is even more baffling and additionally ridiculously comical (again)... Relieve some of that pent up agitation and maybe you will stop presenting yourself as a conditioned sheeple in all instances. Screaming the loudest doesn’t and will never foundation your input to a topic... which since the very first post till the most recent of yours I’ve viewed is a reoccurring occurrence.... Ignore me or gather yourself some common sense/logic. Something evades your sense of belief and you go into meltdown mode.... Seriously?
Another bad read by you. Not surprising.
 
Poker Orifice

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This is literally his favourite pastime activity when he isn't running his lower completed draws into the nuts.

Are ya makin' some other riggy buddies to whine about the pokerz with... instead of learning how to play?
 
Poker Orifice

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This is how the rigged theorists play. Do you understand why I will often say "Or you could just learn how to play the game..."
(fwiw, I don't think I butchered a hand this badly in my first week of playing online poker)

ScreenHunter 12949
 
Poker Orifice

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Well played sir! Well played!

ScreenHunter 12951
 
kon44

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Another bad read by you. Not surprising.
Trees are green.,. And I’m going to stop laughing at you and providing you reaction scores. I was curious when I came across you when I joined as some of what you offer is great... Time progressed, my curiosity fulfilled... Grating ain’t a sport.... 🙄 Cheer up ex boss man 🤭

As for my reads... Mans on fire right now, reads are on point.... Took down last nights 300. 🤓
 
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U

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Playing online is different from playing in real life. The generators seem to create lots of action. What I mean by this is when you have a hand someone else also has a hand and it is almost always a sweat to the river. On your big hands where you are playing for alot or are all in and someone calls depending on what point of the tourney you are in depends on what seems to happen. With me if it is the start of a tourney I usually chip up and do well for a bit but after a while in the tourney you seem to go card dead or lose to some suck out by the river. This is the pattern I have noticed doesn't matter how you play or if you change up your play based on the way the cards are coming out or who you are playing it is the same result. And that result is that you make the money for a min cash or do not cash at all. It doesnt matter if I am playing in a 7900 man tourney or a 9 man sit and go. I get the same result which should not happen with a true deck of cards. If my playing style and skill allows me to run deep enough in a 7900 man tourney regularly to min cash I should have no problem consistently cashing in a 9 man tourney. But that is not the case I tend to fall just short of the money. That is the one thing the card generator has consistency on. This is cynical but sometimes I wonder if this is intentional so that I keep having to deposit more money. The more money in play the more rake pokerstars gets. I honestly think they would have to be pretty stupid and greedy to load the generators so people are always winning at the start of tourneys and then losing just before the money and redepositing it would be a big loss if they ever got caught. Especially when as it is they have thousands of people playing every day. But I wonder if the reason they only have thousands of people playing everyday is because of the amount of action that results when playing and the adrenaline rush you get when you do win or play a big hand which seems to occur regularly in a tourney.
Especially if they get caught????? caught by who? There is known corruption going on right up to the world leaders and beyond. Here a example: When I was at school aged 5, 39 years ago, scientist were saying if we didn't change the way we lived with pollution etc alot of costal places would be under the sea, I live in Cornwall Uk and I can tell you the water is exactly the same level! Add to that pollution of the air is way worse than back then but nothing has changed, just the BS fear mongering propaganda! my point though is, Some guy of authority with a lab coat, thick glasses and a bow tie spewing nonsense gets believed because of authority despite the evidence being the opposite.

And when you look deeper into, its usually fear mongering to take money off people to save the planet. and this goes to the top. So why would a poker site making millions not be 'in' with the so called fair gaming blah blah blah's going around in suits creaming fortunes off poker site and feeding it to the top. Think this is conspiracy theory? maybe but just lately twitter has been proving conspiracy theorists right with the twiiter files EVIDENCE of curruption at the FBI levels and beyond. Big company steal and feed it to the top while making themselfs rich too and there is no stopping them at this moment in time because they are above the law. this is why your seeing so many quads full houses and flushes hand after hand, I got busted 3 times in a row with KK today to utter junk, Ive seen it all lately, never does this happen live hand after hand. and its f all to do with seeing more hands per hour.

It's either they are getting the games over quickly to make more money faster (greed) or at best it just making it james bond style bad beats to make the site seem oooooooooooooh wow!
 
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puzzlefish

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Are ya makin' some other riggy buddies to whine about the pokerz with... instead of learning how to play?
You're not even qualified to talk about learning how to play. If you are so great, post your PokerStars username instead of hiding it. I know your 888 profile is pretty sad.
 
kon44

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Especially if they get caught????? caught by who? There is known corruption going on right up to the world leaders and beyond. Here a example: When I was at school aged 5, 39 years ago, scientist were saying if we didn't change the way we lived with pollution etc alot of costal places would be under the sea, I live in Cornwall Uk and I can tell you the water is exactly the same level! Add to that pollution of the air is way worse than back then but nothing has changed, just the BS fear mongering propaganda! my point though is, Some guy of authority with a lab coat, thick glasses and a bow tie spewing nonsense gets believed because of authority despite the evidence being the opposite.

And when you look deeper into, its usually fear mongering to take money off people to save the planet. and this goes to the top. So why would a poker site making millions not be 'in' with the so called fair gaming blah blah blah's going around in suits creaming fortunes off poker site and feeding it to the top. Think this is conspiracy theory? maybe but just lately twitter has been proving conspiracy theorists right with the twiiter files EVIDENCE of curruption at the FBI levels and beyond. Big company steal and feed it to the top while making themselfs rich too and there is no stopping them at this moment in time because they are above the law. this is why your seeing so many quads full houses and flushes hand after hand, I got busted 3 times in a row with KK today to utter junk, Ive seen it all lately, never does this happen live hand after hand. and its f all to do with seeing more hands per hour.

It's either they are getting the games over quickly to make more money faster (greed) or at best it just making it james bond style bad beats to make the site seem oooooooooooooh wow!
The pendulum swing of variance, and absolutely true. The later can be cast as speculations but the fact of it is that’s it’s visibly present.... Next question is wether you can fathom or not how natural it’s occurrence truly is.....

The system (schematic) is a playground we joust with on all frontiers....
 
Poker Orifice

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Wow I even have you railing my $0.25 games. And this is what you pick out of all the hands that I played?
It's the only hand I watched. Why were the others even better, lol. LOOK at that hand, LOL
 
Grabobbe

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I definately agree with the people stating, that it is random. All betting- and pokersites are according to laws everywhere fiscalized. They will be checked for cheating, and making any money game not random, would definately be against the law. The reason why it feels like there is more action in online games, is probably because the pace is much higher. The interesting hands where more people have great hands are more frequent. Also the not very interesting hands will be over quickly…
 
Poker Orifice

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You are bad at poker and also bad at lying. :unsure: can't say I am surprised
Why don't you post that hand up in Tournament Hand Analysis? (or maybe the 'Rigged' thread?)

Would love to hear the thought process for each street.

I'm waiting...
 
kon44

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I would love to know where the two of you began lol. Though just from the breadcrumbs and what not over a good few weeks they semi make sense now lol.... Poker Orifice is on your ends hard @puzzlefish, what the hell you do to stir such an agro hive of bees lol. From where I’m standing it’s poor attempts at victimising you.
 
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