Matt Vaughan
King of Moody Rants
Bronze Level
A few things:
+1,000,000 to hiring a coach. You will get much faster improvement from 1 on 1 learning than from pure experience/reading more books.
freerolls do not prepare you for real money games as much as you probably think.
Consider easing in rather than going full throttle. You can commit yourself to poker while still having a "real job."
Not everyone still loves poker after they HAVE to play/study it > 40 hours/week to make their income. (Assuming a positive win-rate.)
+1,000,000 to hiring a coach. You will get much faster improvement from 1 on 1 learning than from pure experience/reading more books.
freerolls do not prepare you for real money games as much as you probably think.
Consider easing in rather than going full throttle. You can commit yourself to poker while still having a "real job."
Not everyone still loves poker after they HAVE to play/study it > 40 hours/week to make their income. (Assuming a positive win-rate.)
TheKid84
Legend
Silver Level
A bit more conservative myself, I'm all for lofty goals for others in hopes they can achieve said goals. Lets face it - would doesn't love these type of success stories when they work out?
My only advice is to keep with that degree of yours and get a job within your field. As much as my dad pissed me off growing up, some things he said are permanently in my head. "Plan for the worst, and hope for the best." Have poker be your secondary, and IF you get to the point where you can make it your primary source of income, have at it and enjoy it.
You say you enjoy playing poker. With the plan you have established, I think your poker playing days would be shorter than you realize. Best of luck though.
My only advice is to keep with that degree of yours and get a job within your field. As much as my dad pissed me off growing up, some things he said are permanently in my head. "Plan for the worst, and hope for the best." Have poker be your secondary, and IF you get to the point where you can make it your primary source of income, have at it and enjoy it.
You say you enjoy playing poker. With the plan you have established, I think your poker playing days would be shorter than you realize. Best of luck though.
Stoic5
Rising Star
Silver Level
Thanks for pointing that out. I'll be depositing online (as a learning investment, not expecting to profit much or even get the money out) and seeing as many hands as I can.
thanks!
thanks, will check it out
Nothing other than get lucky. You will have to win more than your share of races, get dealt better than average hands, and find more than your share of fishes.
Your position reminds me of the young buck driver we here in L.A. see often. He darts in and out of traffic thinking he is winning the race to the Supermarket. But during that trip, he has passed me five times, and always seemed to end up in the wrong lane at the stop lights. He pulls into the parking lot just ahead of me, which is exactly where he started, as he got to the first stop light just ahead of me.
His approach to driving is speed related, mine is economy related. He gets speeding tickets, I get gas discounts.
Haha, my goal is about being the "young buck" driver who gets there twice as fast as you, and makes as few mistakes as possible. And yep, might get a speeding ticket or two!
thanks for the advice. I don't have a ton of money to spend on a coach, but I will look into it. I also have a friend who played professionally (both live ande online) for some years who I am getting in touch with to watch him play/ talk poker
thanks man!
A
A9ofHearts
Visionary
Silver Level
Did you get the PM I sent you?
No I don't have a positive win rate atm, it's going up, but I still have a ways to go. However, the person who first got me started playing poker is a pro player from Atlanta and I know he has made some successful withdrawals from Bovada.
As far as learning goes online would be the way to go because you can start at lower stakes than live, but that would also depend on the level you are planning to start at. I can't tell you from experience, but I have heard the online competition is tougher than the live competition simply because most of the people who go to casinos are there to gamble, not grind and turn a profit.
Best of luck whatever you do, and I would also suggest starting it as a second job while you learn it.
Stoic5
Rising Star
Silver Level
Can't get your pm yet, not enough posts. I'm considering carbon, juicy, bovada.
A
A9ofHearts
Visionary
Silver Level
You should be able to get ones that are sent to you.
Stoic5
Rising Star
Silver Level
Can't get your pm yet, not enough posts. I'm considering carbon, juicy, bovada.
A
A9ofHearts
Visionary
Silver Level
Worak
Legend
Bronze Level
Chances are pretty slim yeah.
High probablility of a crash landing since even the really good players here took months if not years to get from freerolling to more than 10$/h.
Anyway good luck OP - you'll need it :hello:
bz54321
Visionary
Silver Level
See this is why I think you should go the roulette rout. I think you could make it through 3 spins. So that's like 9 weeks of 30$ an hour.
Stoic5
Rising Star
Silver Level
Thanks for the good luck wishes!
Rough Plan Update: trying to put together advice from everyone
1. Deposit $100 online, either juicystakes or carbon. Investigating rakeback/vip options now
2. Play 2c/4c following BR Management, (1 Table to Start, thoughts on this?) - learn EVERYTHING I can. Focus on a specific concept or two each session. Play 20-30 hours/wk. focus on learning ranges
3. Track play using PT. use equilab. take notes on opponents.
4. Read Strategy articles, 2+2, Books
5. Foxwoods every Friday, 12PM-8AM, Saturday 12PM-8AM
6. Talk poker regularly / work out some kind of affordable coaching deal with a friend who has played professionally both online and live
I plan on doing all of these consecutively. Next Saturday I will be going to Foxwoods to watch my friend / prospective coach play NLHoldem 5-10 or 10-20. And about 3 hours of talking poker on the way there and back. Very excited for it!
What do you guys think? What would you recommend changing about the plan adding to it, focusing on specifically?
Rough Plan Update: trying to put together advice from everyone
1. Deposit $100 online, either juicystakes or carbon. Investigating rakeback/vip options now
2. Play 2c/4c following BR Management, (1 Table to Start, thoughts on this?) - learn EVERYTHING I can. Focus on a specific concept or two each session. Play 20-30 hours/wk. focus on learning ranges
3. Track play using PT. use equilab. take notes on opponents.
4. Read Strategy articles, 2+2, Books
5. Foxwoods every Friday, 12PM-8AM, Saturday 12PM-8AM
6. Talk poker regularly / work out some kind of affordable coaching deal with a friend who has played professionally both online and live
I plan on doing all of these consecutively. Next Saturday I will be going to Foxwoods to watch my friend / prospective coach play NLHoldem 5-10 or 10-20. And about 3 hours of talking poker on the way there and back. Very excited for it!
What do you guys think? What would you recommend changing about the plan adding to it, focusing on specifically?
R
RiverOfDreamz
Rock Star
Silver Level
I use Camtasia Studio to record my computer's screen, so I can go back and look at specific points in my session. Pokertracker is great, but sometimes watching the action, with any comments that were made or weird timing, helps me pick up more info. I always take notes during and after my session, and update individual player notes for my next session.
fletchdad
Jammin................
Loyaler
I didnt read every post, but read a few. So if its been said and I am repeating, well, strength in numbers..lol
OP, you have a goal that many, many have had. If I understand your experience level, you have read books and played freerolls. Correct me if this is not so. If you have, in the mean time, played some .02/.04 tables, this will not count as massive experience for an aspiring poker pro.
BZ made a great post with his questions. Here are a few more:
Online questions:
Do you know what BB/100 you currently average? Do you know what an average bb/100 is for different stakes if you are a BE, a slightly winning and a crushing player? What is your BB/100 goal and at what stakes? How will you plan your advancement up i.e. how many BI will you need at a stake before attaining it?
A coach is expensive and if you dont have experience (again, that is what I read from the thread, if I missed something, please correct me) then you should not invest in a coach unless it is a micro stakes coach with a comparative price.
Your goal of making 30$/hr in 3 months is totally ridiculous, unless you are an unbelievable prodigy at poker. Going from freerolls and .02/.04 to 4K a month ( assuming 6 hrs a day, 5 days a week, I mean you need to do other stuff than just play, but you knew that, right????), well, who do you know who has done this lately? Do you have any idea how many plyers want exactly this? If it was that easy, why would anyone work?
I am not saying I hope you fail, exactly the opposite, I hope you come back in 3 months and make me eat my post. I just seriously doubt you will.
As far as live playing goes, what stakes are you going to play, and what stakes have yo played? How many hands apx. have yo played live the last year or 2? Its great you have a guy you can go to a from the casino with who will talk poker with you, I hope it works out in the live arena for you. But watching a guy play 5/10 or 10/20 is going to help YOUR poker games about as much as an amateur football player will improve watching the Superbowl.
OP, you have a goal that many, many have had. If I understand your experience level, you have read books and played freerolls. Correct me if this is not so. If you have, in the mean time, played some .02/.04 tables, this will not count as massive experience for an aspiring poker pro.
BZ made a great post with his questions. Here are a few more:
Online questions:
Do you know what BB/100 you currently average? Do you know what an average bb/100 is for different stakes if you are a BE, a slightly winning and a crushing player? What is your BB/100 goal and at what stakes? How will you plan your advancement up i.e. how many BI will you need at a stake before attaining it?
A coach is expensive and if you dont have experience (again, that is what I read from the thread, if I missed something, please correct me) then you should not invest in a coach unless it is a micro stakes coach with a comparative price.
Your goal of making 30$/hr in 3 months is totally ridiculous, unless you are an unbelievable prodigy at poker. Going from freerolls and .02/.04 to 4K a month ( assuming 6 hrs a day, 5 days a week, I mean you need to do other stuff than just play, but you knew that, right????), well, who do you know who has done this lately? Do you have any idea how many plyers want exactly this? If it was that easy, why would anyone work?
I am not saying I hope you fail, exactly the opposite, I hope you come back in 3 months and make me eat my post. I just seriously doubt you will.
As far as live playing goes, what stakes are you going to play, and what stakes have yo played? How many hands apx. have yo played live the last year or 2? Its great you have a guy you can go to a from the casino with who will talk poker with you, I hope it works out in the live arena for you. But watching a guy play 5/10 or 10/20 is going to help YOUR poker games about as much as an amateur football player will improve watching the Superbowl.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
This is a reasonable plan. FWIW no one in here wishes you ill. We all would love to be proved wrong.
TO multi-table best you will need a tracker. PT4 or HEM. Without one the best I could really ever do was 2 tables, but I am older.
Stoic5
Rising Star
Silver Level
Great Idea, thanks! this will be great for forcing myself to think on every hand: i.e. saying aloud what I am thinking on each street, watching the recording later.
thankyou for the advice. I do not have an established BB/100 yet. I'm trying to do this fast, so I plan to evaluate for 2c-4c limits after 5k-10k hands. BR between 15-25 BI for $1-$2 Live. $80 deposit for 2c-4c. I do not have appreciable live playing experience. It consists of beating home games with horrible players
I don't understand what you were saying about bb/100 and BE for different stakes
Cool, I'll have one. Thanks!
1luckysob
Visionary
Silver Level
I generally try to follow the 10,000 hour rule with anything you want to achieve an advanced skill in. If you put in 10,000 hours of actually playing poker (not just studying and not freerolls) and you truly are trying to learn and get better you will have success. There are so many subtleties in poker that trying to learn everything and be successful in a short period of time is virtually impossible. Trying to take shortcuts will never get you what you are asking for thus this goal may not be realistic for you. If you still want to try this i would say the best way is to play the majority of your tournaments as satellites, this way you can play for relatively small amounts to buy in to huge tournaments and hopefully get lucky and strike it big. good luck to you and welcome to CC
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
I'm a good skater & have been watching alot of hockey this year (once it started).
I plan on getting a stick soon & then will be shooting pucks off a fence in my backyard for 3hrs./day for the entire summer. I'm hoping (planning on it actually) on getting drafted into the NHL next year because I am a naturally talented/gifted athlete & a very determined individual (when I put my mind to something it gets done!).
I have never played 'ice hockey' but I played a fair bit of road hockey in my youth & scored my fair share of goals! I do know how to skate though.
I plan on getting a stick soon & then will be shooting pucks off a fence in my backyard for 3hrs./day for the entire summer. I'm hoping (planning on it actually) on getting drafted into the NHL next year because I am a naturally talented/gifted athlete & a very determined individual (when I put my mind to something it gets done!).
I have never played 'ice hockey' but I played a fair bit of road hockey in my youth & scored my fair share of goals! I do know how to skate though.
Stoic5
Rising Star
Silver Level
:congrats:
fletchdad
Jammin................
Loyaler
I was just kind of wondering if you know what a decent win rate is. Like if you are 7bb/100 at .2nl, do you understand that you wont necessarily be a 7bb/100 player at 100nl.
When you are 2bb/100, after you take rake into consideration, you are probably barely over BE as far as your BR goes even tho you are a winning player. And >4bb/100 is good, 8-10 is great and more is just crushing..
You mentioned making 30$ an hour. Well do some math. I dont know how many tables you want to play, but you did mention 1 at first to concentrate. you will play 50-60 hands an hour online. so if you are playing one table at .2nl, well, you see where that is going.
To make 30$ an hour, if you are averaging a great winrate like 8bb/100, you have to be 8 tabling 100nl.And crushing it.
I just dont see a new player getting there in 3 months.
If I were you, I would not worry about making x$/hr, at least not now I would simply play and learn. Set goals, get a playing and review routine down, just work on your game and try to learn as best you can. Let the winrate take care of itself.
You cant force it.
fletchdad
Jammin................
Loyaler
lol
I decided to be one of the best guitar players in the world. Seriously.
I spent years practicing. I worked as a roadie for 3 years, playing gigs in between for pennies. After playing, practicing, studying music and paying my dues in the bars and roadhouses across Europe, I went through many stages where I felt I had finally "made" it as far as my talent and prowess went. But every so often I would reach a new level of expertise, and realize that I not only was not as good last year as I though I was, but would constantly realize that the better I got, the more I could see what I still had to learn.
When I started out, I was sure in less than a year, the world would know my name.
Now, 35 years and 1000's of gigs later, I am just glad that I was one of a few who actually made it as far as I did. Not many do.
I think the road to poker success is not too different.
Stoic5
Rising Star
Silver Level
Thanks, I see what you are saying now. Yes, I realize that winrate will not be directly transferable up through the stakes. thanks for the rundown on winrates and accounting for rake. As of right now, My primary interest is a learn online>profit live strategy. At least until I am out of the U.S. I figure I will be able get to the point where I can eat up fish for profit at live casino games on weekend nights a hell of a lot quicker then grinding it out online.