***June Micro Grinder Thread 2NL-25NL***

[dsvw56]

this

So why not open to 4x from positions where you're only opening for value, and 3x in late position?

 

[Jurn8]

Iv tried that Dsv but prefer just making it 3x from all positions tbh

 

[dsvw56]

Iv tried that Dsv but prefer just making it 3x from all positions tbh

so you hate money?

 

[Jurn8]

so you hate money?

No, but I think it just keeps it simpler and I think I have more important things to worry about atm than making it 3x or 4x to go.

 

[WVHillbilly]

I used to open 4x from all positions, then I went to 3x from the steal positions, and now I just 3x from everywhere. I don't know that it matters that much.

My question was more because I know Zach min raise opens from the BTN and SB and I was just wondering if Jake had tried it out.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

no seriously I never make calculations like umm Im getting 4 to 1 here so thats fine to call or thats a fold I just roughly think hmm 3/4 pot ill fold or 1/3 pot thats a call and I dont ever calculate outs specifically or know how many outs I have so I mean I could be missing alot of value in my game aswell and folding to much postflop.

I am learning away just looking at outs/pot odds

Well your method is roughly outlining the idea of using pot odds,and in fact once you get your foundation set with actual pot odds calculations some of it becomes automatic just like that. Pot sized bet offers 2:1 odds etc.

Then learning what your outs are offering you odds wise will give you a way to compare the two.

I would then say there are two primary ways odds help.

1. Easy... just by observing them. They are always there, and being AWARE of them gives you one more (gigantic) bit of info for your decision on your next action. This is passive.

2. Harder. Manipulating them. Once you get a handle on how they work, then you can begin to strategically manipulate them even to create some edge when you need it. This is active.

 

[Jurn8]

sorry caps that confused me abit lol

I have made an outs and odds chart which shows the hand Im chasing say a flush which is 9 outs and then what odds I need on the flop to call and then what odds I need on the turn to call.

So my chart reads - flush 9 outs 1.9/1 4.1/1

this should help me play a more profitable game

 

[WVHillbilly]

sorry caps that confused me abit lol

I have made an outs and odds chart which shows the hand Im chasing say a flush which is 9 outs and then what odds I need on the flop to call and then what odds I need on the turn to call.

So my chart reads - flush 9 outs 1.9/1 4.1/1

this should help me play a more profitable game

Just use the rule of 2 and 4 for quick equity calculations imo.

 

[Jurn8]

Just use the rule of 2 and 4 for quick equity calculations imo.

Yeah I thought about that but I dont fully understand how many % we need to make calls profitably?

Like if we have a flush draw on the flop that gives us 36% chance of hitting on both streets what size bet can we call to make it profitable?

 

[cardplayer52]

I'm at a similar place, different concept - stack to pot ratios - trying to improve my deep stack play... gl, my head hurts ...

we need a PNL thread my head hurts too. can't even keep reading.

 

[cardplayer52]

Yeah I thought about that but I dont fully understand how many % we need to make calls profitably?

Like if we have a flush draw on the flop that gives us 36% chance of hitting on both streets what size bet can we call to make it profitable?

this maybe easy for you or not IDK.
(amount to call) X (odds) - ($ in pot) = profit/loss.

eg $100 pot and theres a $50 bet. would be $50 x 1.9 - $150 = -$55
this would be a -EV play if you can't get $55 more in if you hit a flush on the turn.

 

[Deltafrost]

we need a PNL thread my head hurts too. can't even keep reading.

I got it for my Bday, so ill start reading. if someone hasnt started one in a few days I will. Maybe go chapter by chapter or something.

Oh, and I just withdrew 600 from stars. Taking it to Tilt for the 1st Deposit Bonus and to try to get RB yet again. Still rolled for 25nl on stars tho.

 

[GunslingerZ]

Yeah I thought about that but I dont fully understand how many % we need to make calls profitably?

Like if we have a flush draw on the flop that gives us 36% chance of hitting on both streets what size bet can we call to make it profitable?

You just have to remember what odds you need for some common percentages:

50% equity = you only need to be getting 1:1
40% = 1.5:1
33% = 2:1
25% = 3:1
20% = 4:1

And then remember that a pot-sized bet is giving you 2:1 odds. A 1/2 pot bet is giving you 3:1. A 1/3 pot bet is giving you 4:1.

So if you have 36% equity, you can call just over a pot-sized bet.

 

[Lemlywinks]

So why not open to 4x from positions where you're only opening for value, and 3x in late position?

This was more along the lines of what I was getting at... but if you have a routine there is no need to change it as I guess it doesn't make too much of a difference

Just personal preference i suppose

 

[cardplayer52]

made enough for a session at 5NL. it went ok. ok being ahead of break even just ahead. second session not so good. by not so good i mean took a couple bad beats and went on tilt. lost 3 buyins by lost i mean gave it away. dropped back to 2NL today and got some back. i think my problem is i was doing 4-8 tables in 2NL and now i'm only rolled for 1 at 5NL. so i'm getting bored. so maybe i'll try opening a few 2NL and only one 5NL to keep from tilt.


goals for june

1: iron man metal
2: complete 2 academy challenges(10x each)
3: be winning player at 5NL.

bonus: make it to 10NL.

 

[Checkmate]

Cardplayer-
What academy challenges are you doing? Im doing the Phil Gordon 5 common leaks challenge. Its the easiest thing ever and Im looking to see what the next one is I should do.

 

[cardplayer52]

Cardplayer-
What academy challenges are you doing? Im doing the Phil Gordon 5 common leaks challenge. Its the easiest thing ever and Im looking to see what the next one is I should do.

i'm focussing on ring games right now. so i'm doing "5 common leaks"(only hard thing is being dealt ace small suited and when i do i'm either LP where i'm stealing or there's been action before me) "preflop play"(also very easy IMO esp. pro play) then i'm looking at "power of position" i've noticed to find a challenge click on the challenge above the on you want. i'm really hoping for all 3 to be done by the end of june but said 2 to make it obtainable.

 

[switch0723]

just had quite a long convo with switch

massive understatement

/subscribing to thread

 

[KingCurtis]

guess I'll be in here and also in the mtt thread at the same time. 5nl now 10nl by the end of the month lets hope. I'll prolly be asking 1663794739827826720282 questions if that's ok?

 

[KingCurtis]

ok first question!

Is it ok to switch from raising mid pairs to limping them or should I just raise mid pairs like 88 and 99 in LP only?

 

[S93]

ok first question!

Is it ok to switch from raising mid pairs to limping them or should I just raise mid pairs like 88 and 99 in LP only?

Its ok but i dont do it for a couple reasons.
-At the micros there is litle need to balance your range but some balance is obviously needed or the few good players will pick up on it pretty fast.
-I dont open limp with big hands so if i started open limping 22-99 and sc it would make my range super predictable.
-The hands that are limping behind u are gonna be weak hands and wont make good enough hands to play for stacks with to often when u make a set.
Where as if u raise and get called villains range is usualy stronger then the range that he limped behind with and your more likly to get paid of when u hit a set.
-If u raise its alot easier to take the pot down postflop with a c-bet then in a limped multiway pot.

So yeah if its folded to me or one limper infront i allways raise or fold, if on the other hand there are 2+limper in front i have no problem with limping behind.

 

[KingCurtis]

sweet thanks sindri, all i needed, also forgot about the whole 5nl-25nl is all straight forward and less changing gears and ranges

 

[Caseace48]

So why not open to 4x from positions where you're only opening for value, and 3x in late position?

Yeah Jurn, in all honesty players at 25NL, and 10NL especially, are not smart enough to pick up on using this concept. I personally have switched to it about a month ago after being a standard 3x raiser from all positions and have seen a huge improvement. I would assume its generally the same for 50NL. Probably missing lots of value. Just my opinion though

 

[cAPSLOCK]

sorry caps that confused me abit lol

Heh. I just read that thing I wrote. I promise I wasn't drunk, but I see how I confused you.

Seems several folks have offered good outlines of how to use odds.

My only other point was understanding odds is first passive: to know when to call or raise, then active: to know how much to bet/raise.

 

[Caseace48]

Its ok but i dont do it for a couple reasons.
-At the micros there is litle need to balance your range but some balance is obviously needed or the few good players will pick up on it pretty fast.
-I dont open limp with big hands so if i started open limping 22-99 and sc it would make my range super predictable.
-The hands that are limping behind u are gonna be weak hands and wont make good enough hands to play for stacks with to often when u make a set.
Where as if u raise and get called villains range is usualy stronger then the range that he limped behind with and your more likly to get paid of when u hit a set.
-If u raise its alot easier to take the pot down postflop with a c-bet then in a limped multiway pot.

So yeah if its folded to me or one limper infront i allways raise or fold, if on the other hand there are 2+limper in front i have no problem with limping behind.

As a 25NL FR reg, I open with 33+ from all positions except 55+ utg, much more +EV in my opinion, give you more ways to win the pot, rather than straight set mining