** April's Micro Grinder Thread 2NL - 25NL **

[NineLions]

Well hello there, 10nl! Moved back down to rebuild the roll after a little tiff at 25nl. No worries though, not a huge dent to the BR, just moving down for confidence purposes. Should be back up in no time at all.

I'm with you. I'm getting tired of running slightly under breakeven even if I cut down to 4 tables. All in EV is only slightly above breakeven.

It's more fun to play 10 tables of $10 and win, at least until I can build up some momentum again.

 

[orangepeeleo]

I'm with you. I'm getting tired of running slightly under breakeven even if I cut down to 4 tables. All in EV is only slightly above breakeven.

It's more fun to play 10 tables of $10 and win, at least until I can build up some momentum again.

Should i be worried that everybody seems to drop down to 10nl for easy money and i'm having problems there lol

@ 10nl my stats are as follows:

FR: 14k hands @ 1.28BB/100 for a profit of $37.60
6Max: 3.1k hands @ -2.99BB/100 for a loss of $18.55

Hardly spectacular, although both at 6max and fr i have dropped as low as -$50 so for me to be not at -5BI's for both @ 10nl might be an achievement lol

 

[Deltafrost]

Should i be worried that everybody seems to drop down to 10nl for easy money and i'm having problems there lol

@ 10nl my stats are as follows:

FR: 14k hands @ 1.28BB/100 for a profit of $37.60
6Max: 3.1k hands @ -2.99BB/100 for a loss of $18.55

Hardly spectacular, although both at 6max and fr i have dropped as low as -$50 so for me to be not at -5BI's for both @ 10nl might be an achievement lol

Your still learning, as long as your improving dont worry. you havent play a significant amount of hands at either 6m or FR yet. However if you want we can set up a sweat session to check out your play. I'm by no means the best but I have consistently beaten 10nl for 60k hands. (havent moved up due to withdrawing my roll and then my roommate stealing my PW and spewing 200 at 50nl HU.)

AIM is Deltafrost03...hit me up sometime

 

[Dwilius]

Just finished my first 20k hands at 10nl, back up to 8ptbb/100 after recent heater. Going to mix in the odd 25nl table to get used to it. Try to table select or wait for the weekend to make transition easier. Still underrolled after cashing some out, so only ready to lose a buyin at a time until build some more at 10nl.

 

[eNTy]

(havent moved up due to withdrawing my roll and then my roommate stealing my PW and spewing 200 at 50nl HU.)

Tell your roommate to be a man and pay you back ? :\

 

[Deltafrost]

Tell your roommate to be a man and pay you back ? :\

hes slowly paying it back, got 50 so far. hes paying me 50 a month is all he says he can afford. better this than nothing...

plus side: lease is up may 31st, new roommate FTW!

 

[S93]

Well hello there, 10nl! Moved back down to rebuild the roll after a little tiff at 25nl. No worries though, not a huge dent to the BR, just moving down for confidence purposes. Should be back up in no time at all.

I'm with you. I'm getting tired of running slightly under breakeven even if I cut down to 4 tables. All in EV is only slightly above breakeven.

It's more fun to play 10 tables of $10 and win, at least until I can build up some momentum again.

Good discpline moving down guys and good luck on your next try.
At first i thought 25 and 10nl where totaly difrent but after going over some hands and geting a litle confidence im actualy beating it a litle better then 10nl(6max...still suck at FR).
I honestly believe its just a confidence/psycological issue and as soon as you guys realize that to you will crush it.
losing a 25$(or 50 if your deep) stack might look like alot more then a 10$ one but in reality your r just playing against the same bad players and the ocasional regs you just stay away from, and there is no real need to make major changes to your game to beat them(obvs. you should always be improving your game cause other wise the fish will catch up with but u get my point).

 

[Jurn8]

Quick Question to you all what would be your play here and why?

MP1 = 30/17/5 over only 30 hands
MP3 = 11/5/1.2 over 1.3k hands

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

MP2: $30.95 (123.8 bb)
MP3: $26.60 (106.4 bb)
Hero (CO): $26.50 (106 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)
SB: $5.40 (21.6 bb)
BB: $26.15 (104.6 bb)
UTG: $16 (64 bb)
UTG+1: $9.15 (36.6 bb)
MP1: $22.60 (90.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with 5♥ A♥
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to $1, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $1, Hero??

Ok, I made this point after watching a few DC vids by bottomset at 50NL.
He said that in positions like this where you have Ax soooted and its a multiway pot you have very big implied odds and you can get paid off if you hit vs multiple opponents.

fwiw I would have folded this before but now I am flatting behind in this situation and seeing a flop and if we pick up a flush draw or hit we're more likely to get paid off. I will call if 2 or more people are in the hand say one raises and then a guy flats behind im going to over cold call and call behind to see a flop but dont get hooked when you hit an A high flop.

Just something I picked up from a DC vid.

Here's how the above hand finished

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

MP2: $30.95 (123.8 bb)
MP3: $26.60 (106.4 bb)
Hero (CO): $26.50 (106 bb)
BTN: $25 (100 bb)
SB: $5.40 (21.6 bb)
BB: $26.15 (104.6 bb)
UTG: $16 (64 bb)
UTG+1: $9.15 (36.6 bb)
MP1: $22.60 (90.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with 5:heart: A:heart:
UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to $1, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $1, Hero calls $1, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.75

Flop: ($4.35) 4:diamond: 3:club: 2:heart: (4 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets $2, MP3 calls $2, Hero raises to $7, UTG folds, MP1 raises to $21.60 and is all-in, MP3 folds, Hero calls $14.60

Turn: ($49.55) K:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($49.55) A:club: (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:[spoil] $49.55 pot ($2.45 rake)
MP1 showed K:heart: K:diamond: (three of a kind, Kings) and lost (-$22.60 net)
Hero showed 5:heart: A:heart: (a straight, Ace to Five) and won $47.10 ($24.50 net)
[/spoil]

it helps flopping the second nuts aswell btw

 

[eNTy]

it helps flopping the second nuts aswell btw

That is obviously the key to success

 

[cAPSLOCK]

FWIW, this approximation gets pretty inaccurate over 8 outs. A good correction is to subtract 1% for every out over 8 outs.

i.e.,
10 outs = 40 - (10-8) = 38%
12 outs = 48 - (12-8) = 44%

If you look at the math a little closer things may not be as bad as you think they are.

10 outs is:

1 - (47-10)/47 = 21.28% for the turn
+
1 - (46-10)/46 = 21.74% for the river

For a total of just over 43% for the turn AND river.

the formula for % chance is:

1- (u-o)/u = %

Where u is unknown cards and o is outs.

(((Though playing this hand is great for implied odds semi bluff since I suspect you are drawing for the nut flush and possible top pair improvement over your flop You said 10 outs right?)))

I think you got the idea backwards... there are less than 50 known cards after the flop so each card is slightly MORE than 2% chance.

So the numbers skew up rather than down, right?

cAPS

 

[Dwilius]

I think its (10/47) + (37/47 x 10/46). You have to subtract the times it hits on the turn before working out river. That's why it skews down.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

Confounded little numbers do not like getting counted twice... so much for my positivity.

What is the practical difference between "on the turn OR river" and "on the turn AND/OR river"? This calculation detail has always felt like time travel since if your out comes up on the turn, then who cares about the river... at least in regards to the ORIGINAL consideration.

One other thing, though. Using the "rule of four" is a deceptive calculation as the price to see the river is often not just a turn bet. I think you must consider the current decision with some regard to future situations instead of equal regard.

 

[eNTy]

I think you are all giving this slightly too much weight.
The way I see it the four and two rule is just there to give you an idea of how many times you will hit your outs and thus win by the next card or by the two next cards. It is not set in stone.

 

[ajrobin]

The A5 hand is quite interesting and is howd i would of played it but quick question: how are you reacting if the flop comes A x x and MP1 leads with $2.5. Are you willing to float and see a turn or just chucking?

Everyones dropping down to 10nl, but im moving up to it. Ive spent roughly a week each in 2nl and 5nl and now my original $20 is hovering around the ~$200 so im moving up within the next two days yay! Will post a hand if I get myself in trouble but shouldnt be too hard.

 

[Jurn8]

The A5 hand is quite interesting and is howd i would of played it but quick question: how are you reacting if the flop comes A x x and MP1 leads with $2.5. Are you willing to float and see a turn or just chucking?

Everyones dropping down to 10nl, but im moving up to it. Ive spent roughly a week each in 2nl and 5nl and now my original $20 is hovering around the ~$200 so im moving up within the next two days yay! Will post a hand if I get myself in trouble but shouldnt be too hard.

If its A x x rainbow tbh im just probably letting it go, if i have no flush draw or straight draw I dont think I have any showdown value. I think if I continue its just going to put me in a marginal situation.
Its like set mining I spose but flush/straight mining lol

 

[WVHillbilly]

If its A x x rainbow tbh im just probably letting it go, if i have no flush draw or straight draw I dont think I have any showdown value. I think if I continue its just going to put me in a marginal situation.
Its like set mining I spose but flush/straight mining lol

Actually depending on villain's cbet stats and how often he fires a 2nd barrel I'd be tempted to call a flop bet if MP3 folds to the original raisers cbet, although I guess it's marginal with the limp caller still to act.

 

[ajrobin]

He said that in positions like this where you have Ax soooted and its a multiway pot you have very big implied odds and you can get paid off if you hit vs multiple opponents.

Coincidently I do this all the time with small suited connecters, 34s , 23s ect, with the mantra 'hit big or give up'. Can be big money makers especially against the tighter/nitty players.

 

[slycbnew]

Coincidently I do this all the time with small suited connecters, 34s , 23s ect, with the mantra 'hit big or give up'. Can be big money makers especially against the tighter/nitty players.

I assume we're only doing this with position (sc's, Ax sooted multiway, etc.)? CO and Button for the most part? For example, I'd be reluctant to flat Ax sooted from the blinds even in the multiway pot in Jurn's example?

 

[Jurn8]

im happy to do it from the blinds tbh, because we arent looking to take the pot down with a Cbet or anything we are looking to flop big draws which we can see either in or out of position on the flop however it maybe easier to extract money from villians IP.

 

[slycbnew]

im happy to do it from the blinds tbh, because we arent looking to take the pot down with a Cbet or anything we are looking to flop big draws which we can see either in or out of position on the flop however it maybe easier to extract money from villians IP.

Makes sense.

What implied odds does this need to be profitable? For pp's looking to hit a set, for example, the number is 11.7 (I think - don't shoot me if I forgot in spite of the many times zach's repeated it , and I'm too lazy to find it right now) - is it the same number here? Since a draw is part of this, and a set is sort of a done deal on the flop, do the implied odds need to be higher?

Just thinking about the fit or fold thing...

 

[Jurn8]

not sure tbh i dont know any raw figures but im playing if somebody 4x's and then you get at least 1 caller in front of you so whatever that works out at

 

[orangepeeleo]

im happy to do it from the blinds tbh, because we arent looking to take the pot down with a Cbet or anything we are looking to flop big draws which we can see either in or out of position on the flop however it maybe easier to extract money from villians IP.

I'm happy to make calls like that from the blinds as well, was wondering if i was being a bit too loose/passive but this has re-assured me, the way i see it is that you make so much from these hands when you flop big that they're worth playing even oop.

I prefer to do it with sc's rather than A-xs though b/c if there's 3 of a suit on the board your not going to get much action and if you call a flop bet drawing to a flush then your not going to make much when the fd hits, also i tend to spew a lot when my A-xs hits 2 pair so its a bit of self preservation really, either i run into sets a LOT when i hit 2 pair or 2 pairs are a rubbish hand that fools you into looking good lol

 

[Jurn8]

the idea of Ax sooted is that you hit the nut flush I think so get more monies from lower flushes

 

[orangepeeleo]

Thats gonna be very villain specific i think, i dunno, if a lot of fishies are in the hand then maybe but the only hand you can really calculate to get a stack from is K-xs and theres a slim chance of that happening, it happens, but surely not enough to make it profitable?? I prefer sc's anyways b/c theyre super hidden, fd's are more out there for everyone to see, and even a beginner knows to watch out for 3 or 4 of a suit on a board, sure you could get some value out of a lower flush but a stack??

 

[orangepeeleo]

Just looked at my PT3 stats for my Ax sooteds and i've made $45 from them, minus $10 for one that i rivered a fh, which is more than i thought tbh, made me change my opinion though, the ones that i make the most money from are the A2,3,4,5s b/c of the straight potential, i think i'm going to steer clear of the other suited aces though, just to be on the safe side