Blazing_Saddler
Rock Star
Silver Level
If they can all see my whole cards, and still keep losing to me, they must be pretty dumb
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If they can all see my whole cards, and still keep losing to me, they must be pretty dumb
Bombjack
Legend
Silver Level
The argument against it being spyware was mainly from the tournament that DOUBLEDRAG won (at one point calling all-in on a flop with two Kings and two hearts with T9 of clubs vs 92 of hearts). Since in a tournament you don't know who you will be up against, it wouldn't be possible to target your opponents with spyware.Very interesting and most interesting of all is that the second response from the rep there is not actually a denial.
Complete speculation of course, but some sort of spyware which has been targetted at HS players which is sending screencaps would be my guess rather than a breech of the software itself.
Either that or the HS players have got someone watching their cards through a window on the phone to these idiots
Also, these accounts all play around 90% of hands pre-flop, so are playing against all opponents. If they had spyware installed it would only be against certain opponents, while these players are winning huge - way beyond what the world's best players have ever achieved - against everyone.
I've read through the evidence presented and there is no doubt to me that these players are cheating somehow. Whether or not this is due to a problem with Absolute's software is not certain, but it seems likely.
A
Alfoldem
Enthusiast
Silver Level
whilst i dont play on absolute this is very concerning, more worryingly perhaps is that if its true, proven and eventually accepted by absolute the damage this will do to online poker.
Will the publicity draw more cheats to online poker?
Will they be better equipped to avoid detection by avoiding tell tale signs that have tipped these people off?
Hopefully this may serve as a wake up call to some other sites to stay one step ahead of the game.
Will the publicity draw more cheats to online poker?
Will they be better equipped to avoid detection by avoiding tell tale signs that have tipped these people off?
Hopefully this may serve as a wake up call to some other sites to stay one step ahead of the game.
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
Okay -so if we believe all of this - and it is very compelling - what do we do? I have $164 on Absolute and have no intentions of continuing to play there - rarely do anyway. So do I:
- Request a check and hope I get it (I bet a lot of people are withdrawing right now).
- Play some tournaments (not high stakes lol) and try to win more and then request a check. (the real idea being to get practice since I may never see my money anyway)
- Transfer it to my sister who is very poor, loves to play, but has no money at all to put in poker. This could last her a long time.
- Transfer 60-70% to my sister and keep some so I can play with her to keep her company.
blankoblanco
plays poker on hard mode
Silver Level
this seals the deal.. there absolutely is cheating going on:
New 9/17 update: We have the Potripper final table HH: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=beats&Number=12123790. At this final table, he open folded PF twice and folded to a single PF raise twice in the last 27 hands. Both open folds were with AA and KK behind; the folds made to a raise were when villains had QQ and JJ.
if anyone's not convinced by now, then you're either really hard headed or you haven't familiarized yourself with enough of the literature. there really is no doubt. this guy (POTRIPPER, DOUBLEDRAG, GRAYCAT.. all the same guy) plays NEARLY EVERY HAND, raise or not, yet somehow manages to only fold when AA, KK, QQ, or JJ are out.
there's also a similarly ridiculous limit hold 'em hand where he caps preflop and check-folds on a 522 board when his opponent has 55. anyone with the most remote clue in the world about high stakes limit hold 'em knows this makes COMPLETELY no sense
cheatin' going on, plain and simple. i really can't figure out if absolute is that incompetent, trying to be ignorant, or lying, but i hate them nonetheless
New 9/17 update: We have the Potripper final table HH: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=beats&Number=12123790. At this final table, he open folded PF twice and folded to a single PF raise twice in the last 27 hands. Both open folds were with AA and KK behind; the folds made to a raise were when villains had QQ and JJ.
if anyone's not convinced by now, then you're either really hard headed or you haven't familiarized yourself with enough of the literature. there really is no doubt. this guy (POTRIPPER, DOUBLEDRAG, GRAYCAT.. all the same guy) plays NEARLY EVERY HAND, raise or not, yet somehow manages to only fold when AA, KK, QQ, or JJ are out.
there's also a similarly ridiculous limit hold 'em hand where he caps preflop and check-folds on a 522 board when his opponent has 55. anyone with the most remote clue in the world about high stakes limit hold 'em knows this makes COMPLETELY no sense
cheatin' going on, plain and simple. i really can't figure out if absolute is that incompetent, trying to be ignorant, or lying, but i hate them nonetheless
The Old Guy
Rising Star
Silver Level
Absolute may well actually be rigged (not a joke post
Come to think about it, about 6 weeks ago I received an email offering a program that would allow you to see the other player's hole cards at the table. I didn't click on the link to check out the program but I guess they must exist.
The responses from AP almost look like the form letters you receive in the mail about health insurance and money loans. They all say the same thing but aren't directed towards a person's specific questions or needs.
I checked my account at AP and found I have a grand total of $2.60 in it. I just might go and squander it on a couple $1 games and be done with them.
Does anyone out there think AP is on the up-and-up?
Come to think about it, about 6 weeks ago I received an email offering a program that would allow you to see the other player's hole cards at the table. I didn't click on the link to check out the program but I guess they must exist.
The responses from AP almost look like the form letters you receive in the mail about health insurance and money loans. They all say the same thing but aren't directed towards a person's specific questions or needs.
I checked my account at AP and found I have a grand total of $2.60 in it. I just might go and squander it on a couple $1 games and be done with them.
Does anyone out there think AP is on the up-and-up?
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
I really don't want to think Absolute is involved here, other than that it seems to be happening at Absolute.
I'm putting a couple of post together and offering another possibility.
The offer to see other players cards via an email offer, or rumor or whatever, might have shown you other players cards for a hand or two, but more likely is that it installed a trojan horse, or some spyware which then told another program your hole cards.
The user of the 'master program' if he wrote it, would have written another to tell him when a group of these folks were sitting at the same table, and he would join.
He may have found that at Absolute it is easier, or maybe he is so familiar with Absolute Poker that he felt comfortable there.
Once a concerted focus is placed on that or those players who are suspected, spyware can tell exactly what goes on in that PC. I expect (and hope) at some time in the very near future an arrest will be made, or this player will drop off the face of the earth. An unrelated article in a local newspaper somewhere will announce that so and so was made dead in some heinous act in his own home and the perps were never found.
I'm putting a couple of post together and offering another possibility.
The offer to see other players cards via an email offer, or rumor or whatever, might have shown you other players cards for a hand or two, but more likely is that it installed a trojan horse, or some spyware which then told another program your hole cards.
The user of the 'master program' if he wrote it, would have written another to tell him when a group of these folks were sitting at the same table, and he would join.
He may have found that at Absolute it is easier, or maybe he is so familiar with Absolute Poker that he felt comfortable there.
Once a concerted focus is placed on that or those players who are suspected, spyware can tell exactly what goes on in that PC. I expect (and hope) at some time in the very near future an arrest will be made, or this player will drop off the face of the earth. An unrelated article in a local newspaper somewhere will announce that so and so was made dead in some heinous act in his own home and the perps were never found.
tenbob
Legend
Silver Level
Ive been reading both this thread and the one on 2+2 with some interest over the last few days, and im starting to think whilst likely genuine, cant really be much more than Absolute being incompentant idiots. I mean, come on, anyone with any sort of sense holding this magic software dosnt go to town with it, or do they, I know if i was the one using it, i certainly wouldnt use it to call an all-in with 10high. Or open fold KK when i see my opponent has AA.
This whole thing smells to me more of an irked former employee out to screw over absolute,perhaps someone that had inside information about major flaws in the software, maybe it was him that put there for this reason ? This guy wanted to be found out, and managed it in a little under 200 hands. Im not gonna go for the stupidity arguement here, it just seems that there more going on here than meets the eye.
The site sucks more now that ever though. Its gonna take them a long time to get over this one, if they ever do.
This whole thing smells to me more of an irked former employee out to screw over absolute,perhaps someone that had inside information about major flaws in the software, maybe it was him that put there for this reason ? This guy wanted to be found out, and managed it in a little under 200 hands. Im not gonna go for the stupidity arguement here, it just seems that there more going on here than meets the eye.
The site sucks more now that ever though. Its gonna take them a long time to get over this one, if they ever do.
Stick66
Legend
Silver Level
Welp, it's in the news now. "Pokernews" to be exact:
Stick's Poker Blog: 'Superuser' Scandal Has 'Absolute' Reach
Stick's Poker Blog: 'Superuser' Scandal Has 'Absolute' Reach
Monoxide
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Still, its funny how absolute does little about this, its going to crush their reputation by saying how there is nothing wrong.
I gotta wonder what companies are run by chimpanzees, and which are not, im glad I only touch pokerstars, and fulltilt, pretty much guarenteed 99.9% safety.
vanquish
Legend
Silver Level
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Irexes
Legend
Silver Level
This is a very good point and having read more about this there is a lot that suggests that if there is something amiss that it is to do with inside info rather than spyware.
Facinating stuff and I'm sure huge implications for online poker one way or another. It does also demonstrate that it is possible to demonstrate a "rigged" theory with statistics and evidence rather than anecdote and false logic.
vanquish
Legend
Silver Level
Goodbye to the high stakes regulars tho.
robwhufc
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
More like no-one says anything about pokersites being rigged anymore, because they know that they'll be shot down by some smartarse that apparently knows different.
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
More like no-one says anything about pokersites being rigged anymore, because they know that they'll be shot down by some smartarse that apparently knows different.
If 98% (and I'm being generous here) of all rigged posts weren't stupid baseless crap which could basically be summarized by "WAAAH ME TOOK BAD BEETZ" this may not be the case.
Unfortunately, it is.
Also, as previously mentioned, it's not really 'rigged' per se - I just wanted to use the word to get people like you posting silly things like that.
tenbob
Legend
Silver Level
I really hate seeing this come out about any sort of online poker site. Its bad for the fish pool in general, all we needed is some genuine riggdness and not just hear-say.
Whats to stop former employees from any of the sites installing little backdoor "hacks" once they leave employment. Id be very interested in seeing what measures are in place to prevent such things happening.
Whats to stop former employees from any of the sites installing little backdoor "hacks" once they leave employment. Id be very interested in seeing what measures are in place to prevent such things happening.
robwhufc
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
OK, but...
1) A number of high level internet pros (including Mark Schneider, winner of Aussie Millions) have gathered enough Poker Tracker information to convince themselves that at least 1, probably 4 and possibly 5 accounts playing High Level NL on Absolute are playing whilst able to see opponents hole cards.
2) A "card reader" hack would only be able to penatrate individual opponents, but it is (seemingly) obvious that the rogue accounts are being operated from someone within Absolute Poker.
3) the rogue accounts only came to light because the suspected accounts played sufficiently badly and were sufficiently greedy to get caught out.
I would suggest, that if it is proven that someone from within a pokersite has been playing with a hacked-"super" account (and these accounts must surely exist - pokersites are able to review suspect plays with access to all holecards, so why would they not be able to see everyone's hand in realtime), then surely it is highly unlikely that this is the only occassion that this has ever happened? I would also suggest that if it is possible for pokersites to see everyone's hands, then it's not a huge leap forward to suggest that pokersite insiders are also able to choose or alter the turn/river cards? The "lag" delays that somethimes occur before you get sucked out...? The standard argument against these accusations is "pokersites make too much money too..etc". But how much money DO pokersites make (not talking about Pokerstars who it's obvious would be raking it in, but some of the smaller sites where tables take ages to fill, or even don't fill)? And how much do individual employees make?
I've been saying that pokersites don't run straight for 18-24 months. I've seen repeated patterns over a number of different sites, patterns that I have a hard job dismissing as variance. I've been a gambler for 25 years, I know all about odds and variance, and I know when the odds of something happening are too large to occur legitimately.
Some of these episodes have been over a very small period, as small as 10 hands - the people that are the victim of these rogue accounts generally wont play many more hands than this, they'll either run out of money, or suspect something is up and leave. It's only the onset of Pokertracker and datamining which has enabled a large enough sample of hands (though a lot of the posters on this thread would also baulk at a hand sample as small as 100 hands if the accusations came from less reputable sources).
I have no doubt that there is a large amount of hand tweaking going on in online poker, whether from individuals or from entire sites, and i've suspected this for a while (see previous posts ad nauseum). Hopefully this will be proved, and maybe there will be more revalations to follow?
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