vanquish
Legend
Silver Level
That's one of the sickest HHs IMO.
- Status
That's one of the sickest HHs IMO.
F Paulsson
euro love
Silver Level
Yes, they would still lose hands. The hand history you yourself posted is a great example of that.
Nick
CC
Administrator
Here's what my AP rep had to say:
"Absolute Poker is certified and rated by the same organizations that monitor other poker rooms. To make accusations that AP is rigged or has a breach in our security is simply not true.
All players are monitored, and the players discussed in these threads have been reviewed and cleared by the security department. It can be assured that there are no security holes where player can hack in the system to view the cards."
"Absolute Poker is certified and rated by the same organizations that monitor other poker rooms. To make accusations that AP is rigged or has a breach in our security is simply not true.
All players are monitored, and the players discussed in these threads have been reviewed and cleared by the security department. It can be assured that there are no security holes where player can hack in the system to view the cards."
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Has your rep read the thread on 2p2? Because that just reeks of a canned standard response that they'd give to someone saying Absolute Poker is rigged because they lost to a 2-outer or something, which this is pretty much the antithesis of. 
Monoxide, the accusers are regular HS players. I'm sure they've played with regular fish who've gone on ridiculous heaters before - they know the difference. Plus, playing normally, over ~200 HU hands to have an infinite river AF and hence to never have called a river bet is statistically absurd, especially when so many hands are going to showdown.
I know I bleat on about sample size this and sample size that in other threads, but when something is so far off the expectancy, sample size is largely irrelevant. We only have a few hundred hands to go on here, but what's happened in those few hundred hands is pretty much as near to statistically impossible as one can get.
Monoxide, the accusers are regular HS players. I'm sure they've played with regular fish who've gone on ridiculous heaters before - they know the difference. Plus, playing normally, over ~200 HU hands to have an infinite river AF and hence to never have called a river bet is statistically absurd, especially when so many hands are going to showdown.
I know I bleat on about sample size this and sample size that in other threads, but when something is so far off the expectancy, sample size is largely irrelevant. We only have a few hundred hands to go on here, but what's happened in those few hundred hands is pretty much as near to statistically impossible as one can get.
Monoxide
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I wasnt lookin at the statistics, maybe thats why I dont understand as well. I dont know what alot of them mean, to be honest.
So these "guys" are new, demolishing the normal AB poker high roller players, with very high, almost impossible betting frequencys? Dorkus you said they have an infinite AF on the river right.. does that mean ALOT of river bets or none at all? or do they make the river bets, but never call anothers river bet? I just dont quite understand that part.
Well then, how do they do it? It seems that post is just filled with questions and random comments more than anything, oh and alot of HH's.
Absolute poker claims you cannot see hole cards, so.. how is it possible?
Its not, a program, spyware, etc, it cannot be....everyone would have it.... thats just idiotic to believe that. So its quite a conundrum im rather interested now.
So these "guys" are new, demolishing the normal AB poker high roller players, with very high, almost impossible betting frequencys? Dorkus you said they have an infinite AF on the river right.. does that mean ALOT of river bets or none at all? or do they make the river bets, but never call anothers river bet? I just dont quite understand that part.
Well then, how do they do it? It seems that post is just filled with questions and random comments more than anything, oh and alot of HH's.
Absolute poker claims you cannot see hole cards, so.. how is it possible?
Its not, a program, spyware, etc, it cannot be....everyone would have it.... thats just idiotic to believe that. So its quite a conundrum im rather interested now.
Last edited:
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Absolute would certainly deny their software is exploitable even if it was - it's in their best commercial interest to do so.
Best advice I can give is to read the 2p2 threads if you're curious - all sorts of theories, some plausible, some absurd are floating about there.
The infinite AF means the player is either bet/raising or folding on the river and never calling. In the few screens that have a high but non-infinite AF, the fact it's not infinite is explainable through all-in calls. The guy literally never calls on the river.
Best advice I can give is to read the 2p2 threads if you're curious - all sorts of theories, some plausible, some absurd are floating about there.
The infinite AF means the player is either bet/raising or folding on the river and never calling. In the few screens that have a high but non-infinite AF, the fact it's not infinite is explainable through all-in calls. The guy literally never calls on the river.
blankoblanco
plays poker on hard mode
Silver Level
they're either lying or unaware? what on earth do you expect them to say? if they even act like there's a remote possibility, they might as well start burning all their millions of potential dollars. of course they're going to be firm and unwavering in their resolve
i've read the tons and tons of pages about this on 2+2 and i'm convinced. to echo what DM has said, these are high stakes regulars who generally understand variance as well or better than any of us. they know the difference between a heater and something basically outside the realm of statistical possibility. and they are overwhelmingly convinced that cheating is going on. overwhelmingly.
i've seen HH after HH and he plays EXACTLY how someone retarded would play with the ability to see other player's cards (but not know what community cards will be dealt.. it's a continuous shuffle). and literally nothing else makes sense. this level of HH evidence would be more than enough to convince a reputable site that a pair of individuals were colluding and have them banned, and the site wouldn't need more than 20 hands. so a couple hundred HHs and numbers alone can certainly show that other things are amiss
i'd like to add that AP is incredibly incompetent. weeks ago they REWARDED A RAZZ POT TO THE LOSING HAND BECAUSE THEY HAVE THEIR RULES TO A CARD GAME WRONG WITHIN THE SOFTWARE. when e-mailed about it by numerous users, they reply with a partonizing form letter stating their INCORRECT razz rules (it only comes up when two hands with pairs in them go to showdown, which doesn't happen incredibly often and explains why it's never been fixed). and AP was the first place i ever played at, so i've dealt with them
F Paulsson
euro love
Silver Level
The infinite aggression factor means that they never call on the river, only bet/raise or fold. They apparently very rarely lose on the river.
Why that's interesting is because it means they play perfectly on the river - which is what you'd do if you knew exactly what the other guy had. Imagine having 10-high on the river. I go all-in.
Would you ever call a river all-in with 10-high?
How about if you knew that I had 9-high?
That's what's weird about this. They make bets and raises (and in rare cases, all-in calls) that make no sense - at all - unless they see their opponents' hole cards. Sure, they could be complete lunatics and simply be awful players.
But they never lose.
Why that's interesting is because it means they play perfectly on the river - which is what you'd do if you knew exactly what the other guy had. Imagine having 10-high on the river. I go all-in.
Would you ever call a river all-in with 10-high?
How about if you knew that I had 9-high?
That's what's weird about this. They make bets and raises (and in rare cases, all-in calls) that make no sense - at all - unless they see their opponents' hole cards. Sure, they could be complete lunatics and simply be awful players.
But they never lose.
smd173
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Bingo. How many years did Pete Rose deny he bet on baseball? About 15, until he thought that admitting to betting on baseball would get him back into baseball. Plus it helped him sell another book so he could continue to bet...on horses...
Irexes
Legend
Silver Level
Very interesting and most interesting of all is that the second response from the rep there is not actually a denial.
Complete speculation of course, but some sort of spyware which has been targetted at HS players which is sending screencaps would be my guess rather than a breech of the software itself.
Either that or the HS players have got someone watching their cards through a window on the phone to these idiots
Complete speculation of course, but some sort of spyware which has been targetted at HS players which is sending screencaps would be my guess rather than a breech of the software itself.
Either that or the HS players have got someone watching their cards through a window on the phone to these idiots
KMC1828
Legend
Silver Level
Either that or the HS players have got someone watching their cards through a window on the phone to these idiots
definately that one. prolly got the camoflauge paint and clothes on as well as the binoculars too.
Flops'm&Bets'm
Rock Star
Silver Level
See any HoleCards in Any Online poker
EXCLUSIVE CHEATING - See hole cards in ANY online poker
YouTube - Whats your take on this..??
Truth or fiction??
YouTube - EXCLUSIVE CHEATING - See hole cards in ANY online poker
This may or may not be the answer but there seems to be some type of correlation as they are playing heads up in the Video.
EXCLUSIVE CHEATING - See hole cards in ANY online poker
YouTube - Whats your take on this..??
Truth or fiction??
YouTube - EXCLUSIVE CHEATING - See hole cards in ANY online poker
This may or may not be the answer but there seems to be some type of correlation as they are playing heads up in the Video.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
*possibly another stupid question*
If they're actually looking at hole cards, is it possible they're doing it using a third-party worm on the opponent's computer, rather than exploiting an administrator function on the site?
Monoxide
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Easily possible, the demo could be faked too....but its just a way of showing off their new "scam" lol.
You run this "hole card hacks" program, get infected, then it auto-sends a nice JPEG image of your desktop to the programmer.
Then apparently you open the folder the images are being instantly sent to, and bam hey I can see your hole cards.
In theory thats what this guy is saying he can do, who knows? It probably does work, but it will only work with an idiot that has downloaded his virus program.
The reason it would work with any poker website is because it just sends a desktop pic, but... you would have to like... hunt players down, get them to DL the program, and when they find out it doesnt work.. they would delete it perhaps.. but what if its not gone... what if its still taking pictures of your desktop?
This wouldnt be ultra new or anything, my buddy and I used to play a video game online, and he would steal other players account info because he would ask them to download a program to "Increase their level" then they would input their account information into the "helper program".
The info gets keylogged and info was sent to his email instantly giving him complete access to the account, incredibly simple.
Last edited:
F Paulsson
euro love
Silver Level
Quite possible, yes.
What I was referring to when I said "if this is true" would be the existance of a super user account.
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Absolute Poker rep said:
Two things irritate me about this.
1) At least one of the offending accounts is still open as they conduct this 'investigation'. This is despite numerous hands (especially last night but also on occasions prior) that are blatant chip dumping.
2) As I said before, the fact that a sample size is small is not relevant as the results are so far from what would be expected.
I find it hard to take anyone seriously from a site who repeatedly insisted that AAxxx loses to 88xxx (or whetever it was, I forget exactly) in Razz, too.
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
It's possible, but as the hands in question occur against numerous opponents it's unlikely.
Plus you'd expect a hacker to have a certain degree of intelligence that some of these hands don't correlate with - not just from a 'how they were played' point of view but from a 'how can i cheat without getting found out' perspective. That's also why I don't buy into the theory on 2p2 that it's Mark Seif - he would be more careful about such things.
- Status