LarkMarlow
Legend
Silver Level
Great article! I especially loved this part--
"She told me that the Matusow book might be available and she was in line for it. Without a doubt, I knew this could be the best poker biography out there. Amy said that she really didn't want to do it alone and that she felt the project needed a psychologist involved. Since I am one of those and Amy and I had written together in the past, it seemed like a perfect fit."
What an insightful idea, resulting in a magical team.
LarkMarlow
Legend
Silver Level
I'm reading the book and am about a third of the way through it. Mike's story is definitely fascinating. The writing is well crafted--the authors certainly succeeded in capturing his voice. I'm really enjoying the details of how he got into "the life", as well as learning about his approach to and philosophy about the game.
One thing he says, however, has me really puzzled:
"Eventually I started using pot odds more in my game. pot odds take into account the cost of a bet compared to the amount of money in the pot, and the percentages of winning the hand."
So far, so good, right? Then he goes on to say:
"I'm not a big fan of pot odds, although I use it and know the winning percentages like the back of my hand. But I swear I was probably a better player before I learned all that."
What?! By way of explanation, he says:
"Forget what's in the f'ing pot! You gotta get lucky...I think nowadays, too many players rely strictly on pot odds and percentages. And that hurts their game."
Thoughts, anyone?
One thing he says, however, has me really puzzled:
"Eventually I started using pot odds more in my game. pot odds take into account the cost of a bet compared to the amount of money in the pot, and the percentages of winning the hand."
So far, so good, right? Then he goes on to say:
"I'm not a big fan of pot odds, although I use it and know the winning percentages like the back of my hand. But I swear I was probably a better player before I learned all that."
What?! By way of explanation, he says:
"Forget what's in the f'ing pot! You gotta get lucky...I think nowadays, too many players rely strictly on pot odds and percentages. And that hurts their game."
Thoughts, anyone?
white_lytning
Rock Star
Silver Level
I finished it about a week ago and it left me wanting more.
It was a good quick read. Don't read it if your looking for strategy. It is a nice look into the ups and downs of what living poker is like. I also liked how it talked about the way stakes were growing in recent years and how the game changed. I think that helps understand the above quote.
Its a common complaint against internet poker. In summary...the internet guys are all math and the live guys are all feel. The live guys say the math is over rated. The internet guys say the feel is over rated.
Esfandiari had an interesting take on this in a recent card player mag.
CP: "For many players learning on the internet, it can be difficult to transition to live cash games. Do you have any advice for them?"
AE: "Stay out of my games, you little internet geniuses (laughing). No, but sometimes, internet players will come to a game and play solely on math. They don't look at your opponents and get a read on them."
It echos the same thing that Mike was referring to IMO. There is more to live games than just math. You have more information and shouldn't rely solely on math.
It was a good quick read. Don't read it if your looking for strategy. It is a nice look into the ups and downs of what living poker is like. I also liked how it talked about the way stakes were growing in recent years and how the game changed. I think that helps understand the above quote.
Its a common complaint against internet poker. In summary...the internet guys are all math and the live guys are all feel. The live guys say the math is over rated. The internet guys say the feel is over rated.
Esfandiari had an interesting take on this in a recent card player mag.
CP: "For many players learning on the internet, it can be difficult to transition to live cash games. Do you have any advice for them?"
AE: "Stay out of my games, you little internet geniuses (laughing). No, but sometimes, internet players will come to a game and play solely on math. They don't look at your opponents and get a read on them."
It echos the same thing that Mike was referring to IMO. There is more to live games than just math. You have more information and shouldn't rely solely on math.
dd_decker
Rock Star
Silver Level
There's a lot of psychology going on in live games, especially at the top levels - that's one reason pot odds are irrelevant much of the time - and, that's one reason the top players need a Poker Shrink, right Tim?! :joyman:
P
Pacman1042
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I have to admit, i used to hate the mouth when i started watching poker about five years ago, but lately he has taken some more respec to the game and doesnt pull a bunch of hellmuth's. I hope he can take down some tourney soon
brianvoytek
Visionary
Silver Level
I like Mike. His Brother is the idiot. If you ever listened to Scotts "internet show" you'll understand why. He plays poker and offers to teach people how to become a better player, all while telling anyone whos willing to listen how rigged full tilt poker is. Great way to support his Brother there. As for the book, I've heard great things and I'm looking forward to checking it out.
Poker Shrink
Rising Star
Bronze Level
RE: Pot Odds
Regarding Mike's mixed comments about pot odds. I remember what a wise instructor said to me about doing therapy. He said that you had to learn as much as you could about how and why people get their lives messed up and study all of the responses a therapist could make to such situations. Then you had to put all of that learning aside and just listen to the what the client is saying.
With Pot Odds you have another piece of the poker puzzle but at the table you have to go with your pure instincts and not get hung up in the math.
Regarding Mike's mixed comments about pot odds. I remember what a wise instructor said to me about doing therapy. He said that you had to learn as much as you could about how and why people get their lives messed up and study all of the responses a therapist could make to such situations. Then you had to put all of that learning aside and just listen to the what the client is saying.
With Pot Odds you have another piece of the poker puzzle but at the table you have to go with your pure instincts and not get hung up in the math.
white_lytning
Rock Star
Silver Level
When you read the book you might change your opinion. He has had a very lucky career in poker. (Not taking anything away from him or what he has done. He has had very fortunate results in times when he needed them the most. )I have always liked mike lol he always seems to get very unlucky so id love to hear his story i know he has had his up and downs will defiantly look into this
LarkMarlow
Legend
Silver Level
Absolutely. Your analogy is sound, except for his saying, "I swear I was probably a better player before I learned all that." That's what tripped me up.
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
Wow. So I bought this book not long after I posted in this thread - and like almost every other book I buy it sat on the shelf so long I forgot I owned it.
So at Christmas I asked for this book for a present and got it. Then noticed I already had it lol.
Both sat on my shelf until I decided to take it to England. I didn't touch it until I was on the plane returning home yesterday. Then I read it from front to back only stopping long enough for 2 bathroom breaks. It is only 1 of about 3-4 books I have been able to read in the past 10 years.
Because like him I am ADHD - diagnosed as an adult and did not have it as a child.
He brought tears to my eyes on the first page I read by validating me after all these years. He brought tears to my eyes a few other times for being so much like me. I am not bipolar but we share a lot of other issues - or have shared.
It is a very good book. I will give my other copy to a close friend to read. I felt like I was living every minute with him.
I need to talk to him lol.
So at Christmas I asked for this book for a present and got it. Then noticed I already had it lol.
Both sat on my shelf until I decided to take it to England. I didn't touch it until I was on the plane returning home yesterday. Then I read it from front to back only stopping long enough for 2 bathroom breaks. It is only 1 of about 3-4 books I have been able to read in the past 10 years.
Because like him I am ADHD - diagnosed as an adult and did not have it as a child.
He brought tears to my eyes on the first page I read by validating me after all these years. He brought tears to my eyes a few other times for being so much like me. I am not bipolar but we share a lot of other issues - or have shared.
It is a very good book. I will give my other copy to a close friend to read. I felt like I was living every minute with him.
I need to talk to him lol.
Poker Shrink
Rising Star
Bronze Level
ADHD
In the first year most of the comments we responded to were about Mike and poker, but then slowly we heard more and more from the parents and friends of those who suffer with bi-polar disorder and ADHD like Mike. I hope that audience is helped by Mike's honesty about his problems.
In the first year most of the comments we responded to were about Mike and poker, but then slowly we heard more and more from the parents and friends of those who suffer with bi-polar disorder and ADHD like Mike. I hope that audience is helped by Mike's honesty about his problems.
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
I can't even put into words how much better I felt about myself and my issues after reading his book Monday. So many things he said I could relate to. Like him I did not have this issue as a child - it started as an adult. And even though my psychiatrist gave me an official diagnosis of ADHD and prescribes me medication for it - he said that if I have it now I had to have it as a child which I know I didn't. I have spent the last 10 years trying to remember that I was once smart and could absorb and retain things. His book doesn't fix that for me now - but it is the first time I have ever felt like what I thought happened to me actually did happen - and has happened to someone else. I guess it is better to feel damaged than dumb lol.
Anyway - hats off to the 3 of you because the book is so well written. I literally rode that roller coaster with him while I read it. I spoke to someone else yesterday who read it - and he said the same thing. He felt like he was there living it with Mike.
beardyian
Scary Clown
Silver Level
I would recommend this book to anyone without hestation, it was agreat read and almost felt as though Mike was in your head actually telling it to you .
I was a fan on Mikes before and a bigger fan now :top:
I was a fan on Mikes before and a bigger fan now :top:
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
Heehee, I was reading this thread thinking, "Who bumped this??"
Yea - I thought the book was good enough to justify a bump hehe.
Stu_Ungar
Legend
Silver Level
I used to think he was just an idiot, but lately Ive come around to the fact that he is quite a good player. He does blow up and do stupid moves from time to time, but he is also very good at reading players.
Poker Shrink
Rising Star
Bronze Level
the book
I had hoped from the very beginning that the content of the book and Mike's struggles with ADHD and bipolar disorder would be of some help to others with those issues. It was our intent to cover those factors as they unfolded in Mike's life and as much as possible to write the book with both sets of problems out in the open at all times.
I am glad we seem to have accomplished that for some readers.
I had hoped from the very beginning that the content of the book and Mike's struggles with ADHD and bipolar disorder would be of some help to others with those issues. It was our intent to cover those factors as they unfolded in Mike's life and as much as possible to write the book with both sets of problems out in the open at all times.
I am glad we seem to have accomplished that for some readers.