Do you ever think FR's are not worth the time?

[Poker Orifice]

If you know they'll call all-in to try and hit that runner-runner, it's way smarter to play it through for a lot fewer chips.

.

'Smarter'?? you'll be getting fewer chips as well. Are you suggesting that it's good strategy to not be trying to get your chips in while you're a huge favourite in the hand? Don't you want the donkey/fish to be calling off his stack in hopes of hitting runner runner? I think I'll stick to trying to get my chips in good.... if I get sucked out on.. so be it.

I think it's rare you'll find a typical MTT online where stacks are deep enough to effectively play small ball poker. Maybe in the 2nd part of a rebuy tourney (after the rebuy period) or a deepstacked tourney but for the most part, stacks aren't deep enough to play much small ball strategy imo.

 

[N.D.]

'Smarter'?? you'll be getting fewer chips as well. Are you suggesting that it's good strategy to not be trying to get your chips in while you're a huge favourite in the hand? Don't you want the donkey/fish to be calling off his stack in hopes of hitting runner runner? I think I'll stick to trying to get my chips in good.... if I get sucked out on.. so be it.

I think it's rare you'll find a typical MTT online where stacks are deep enough to effectively play small ball poker. Maybe in the 2nd part of a rebuy tourney (after the rebuy period) or a deepstacked tourney but for the most part, stacks aren't deep enough to play much small ball strategy imo.

When did I say you don't get your chips in when you're a huge favorite? What I said was that some players will chase no matter what. In a freeroll I'm surrounded by players with various levels of experience, even the occasional player who normally plays at the high end of micro or low end of low stakes, but happens to be broke, or decided to do the $0-$10k thing. Thing is those players are vastly outnumbered by beginners.

Beginners love to see flops. They just love to see them cheaply. I'm gonna get more chips off of them than if I use more traditional strategies, plus I have the option to fold when things don't pan out. I do love having options. They love to see flops and they love to chase. Yeah I know there's always one who will call all-in preflop with a baby pair or three gapped or whatever, but most of the time, yeah they wanna see that flop cheap, and then they'll chase no matter what.

By keeping the pot initially small, whatever percentage I bet of the pot stays small, just not in relation to the pot itself. Most players(in a freeroll or at the very bottom of real money) aren't looking at "What percentage of the pot or my stack, is it going to cost me to call?". They're looking at weird stuff like "I can't fold now, it's such a nice big pot." even if they don't actually have odds to call(cuz it's only big cuz of your raise and everyone else folded. So a big raise pre-flop's gonna make some of them think "Ooh this is a nice big pot to get into". That can work for me or against me, but it can very easily tie my hands and cut off all my options.

Then you've got the flop. Don't forget, I'm not even putting them on hands 'till we've played for a little while. Let's say I'm top pair top kicker with a really good flush draw. That's a nice spot to be in, it's also a nice spot to pump the pot in. I can chase any of the better players out with a relatively small bet at this point. Not tiny mind you, but still 1/2 to 3/4. One might even have bottom set and fold it with overcards and a flush draw on the board, it happens. So they've folded the best hand at the moment. Yeah, happens...

I'm sorta chasing just as much as the so called fish. Anyway, they call and I turn my flush, but it's also an out for one's straight(or they have 2 pair) and it's an inferior flush for another. Funny thing about little flushes. People don't like to fold with them. So I still have some options. I'll usually bet around 25% of the pot or shove as soon as I have my flush. People still hate to fold their little flushes, and for some reason there are folks who either think everyone's bluffing no matter what or they think that straights beat flushes. I'm not making this up. But then some think that a pair + quads beats quads with an A or K kicker.

So the straight draw or two pair is still in it(I'm amazed by how many can't fold 2 pair even when their boat doesn't fill up by the river, even if the board's screaming "YOU CAN'T WIN! FOLD DUMMY!". River gives them their straight or fails to give 'em a full house and yep they're in it anyway(not every single time but enough times to build my stack up), and remember the little flush just can't bring themself to fold no matter what.

So with a little patience(and willingness to fold with a smaller investment if I don't hit or perceive weakness beyond chasing), I'm winning more than I would with obvious aggression. Obvious aggression chases out the chicken who wants to chase for cheap, and the player who likes baby flushes. But less obvious aggression and trying to maintain control over the pot size wins me most of both of their stacks if not all of their stacks. I don't see how that's bad or failing to get my chips in good.

I'm still getting them in good, just not all at once pre-flop or on the flop. So far as I can see, getting them in good pre-flop or on the flop just takes away all fault. "I had AA and it just didn't work out", am I still gonna hang on to AA if the board flops flush and not suited to one of my aces? If I shoved all-in pre-flop when I would be getting my chips in good then yeah, no choice, that board better start pairing and fast, oh yeah A on the turn and paired board on the river, pretty please.

But if I didn't get 'em all in good, then yeah, that board flops flush and I can get away from it.

Just saying, there's more than one way to skin a cat, but patience seems to work better in freerolls. When I'm impatient I find myself out somewhere near the bottom. When I'm patient I do very well. I'm not always patient, that's a flaw. But when I am, and not trying to get everything in all at once, it works out better for me. And my stack does get bigger and deeper so...

 

[Mike1Nap4]

I have fun with freerolls. I learned a lot from playing in freerolls. It really helped me in reading players and have been able to transfer that into tournaments where I pay to get in.

 

[clubsta]

Well, I just got $40 for 1st place in my first CC Freeroll yesterday, so my opinion might be a bit biased right now, but I'd say it's worth it (if you have the time, of course). I'm also one of those people who would agree to play a free game with some friends just for the sake of playing. Even a free game of poker to me is an investment overall because, the more I play, the better I get (obviously)--and if I happen to win money every once in a while in freerolls, that's just an added bonus. However, I'm not planning on making poker into a steady income. It all depends on you and what you want from poker.

 

[dmorris68]

One the subject of small ball, that's a subject for another thread, but I've had mixed success. Daniel himself says it's only effective in the early, low-blind stages and then only works well when most players at the table are conservative. Looser players are going to call smaller bets/raises more often, which is great for you when you have the nuts or nearly so -- but then shouldn't you be betting for maximum value and not trying to keep the pot tiny? It also can pigeonhole your play if you bet small until you do have the nuts and then try to pump the pot (which is awfully tempting to do because you then want max value). OTOH when you small-ball with loose or speculative hands, you're just giving loose callers better odds to call you (and loose callers usually don't pay attention to odds anyway), so now you're going to battle weak, will probably fold, and will have just flushed those chips.

So I can see arguments both for and against small-ball. I've had some limited success with it, and then I've seen it not work. So I will sometimes use it sparingly, which I think is a good thing, because you should never be playing in a predictable style anyway. I"m finding the more I play MTTs and SnGs at the stakes I play now, the more regulars I see. I'm accumulating a lot of data on them, and I'm sure they're doing the same with me. So you need to change things up regularly. Of course at the freerolls you'll rarely see a regular so it's far less effective to change up your game -- the vast majority of freeroll players are only playing their cards -- but it's still a good habit to get into.

 

[mstram]

Freerolls are totally worth it if you get in the right kind. I prefer the freerolls at FTP which have been mentioned.

I go for a good effort to reward ratio so I avoid the sucker-freerolls like the plague. Believe it or not there are sucker freerolls. When 3k+ enter and only 3 get paid, it's a sucker freeroll.

Well, though I (stupidly) play them, I think FT's are bordering on "sucker", and I've just played a couple on Stars, and they are the worst !

FT - 2700 ... 27 places paid, .. winner gets a whopping $15.

You play TAG poker throughout, then on the bubble or shortly thereafter get busted by someone playing garbage .. yeah yeah .. I know, I'll take some cheese with my w(h)ine.

Stars is even stupider, and I'm stupid for playing them .... 9,000 players and it's only for an ENTRY to another tourney ! LOL.

NoIq / (Microgaming?) had the best free rolls for a while over the last year or so. Multiple $100 freerolls throughout the day, a daily $500, and a weekly $1,000. I guess they were trying to attract players, becuase recently in the last few months all those have disappeared. There was a software change (company ownership change?), so that might have something to do with it.

Mike

 

[2-7MakesMeRaise]

Depends if your playing for fun !
I won the dvd on ft, came 1st out of 2700 !
Felt better than any other game Iv ever won, even for money lol

 

[SilentJay]

All depends on which freerolls you choose to play. If you want to win money and play 5-hour freerolls against 2700 people for a prize pool of 100 bucks - well, quite frankly, you're a boob. Find something better. If you play them for the satisfaction of beating 2700 donks - knock yourself out.

 

[N.D.]

One the subject of small ball, that's a subject for another thread, but I've had mixed success. Daniel himself says it's only effective in the early, low-blind stages and then only works well when most players at the table are conservative. Looser players are going to call smaller bets/raises more often, which is great for you when you have the nuts or nearly so -- but then shouldn't you be betting for maximum value and not trying to keep the pot tiny? It also can pigeonhole your play if you bet small until you do have the nuts and then try to pump the pot (which is awfully tempting to do because you then want max value). OTOH when you small-ball with loose or speculative hands, you're just giving loose callers better odds to call you (and loose callers usually don't pay attention to odds anyway), so now you're going to battle weak, will probably fold, and will have just flushed those chips.

So I can see arguments both for and against small-ball. I've had some limited success with it, and then I've seen it not work. So I will sometimes use it sparingly, which I think is a good thing, because you should never be playing in a predictable style anyway. I"m finding the more I play MTTs and SnGs at the stakes I play now, the more regulars I see. I'm accumulating a lot of data on them, and I'm sure they're doing the same with me. So you need to change things up regularly. Of course at the freerolls you'll rarely see a regular so it's far less effective to change up your game -- the vast majority of freeroll players are only playing their cards -- but it's still a good habit to get into.

Actually that's the point. You don't use it constantly, but early on in the FTP freerolls it seems to work well. So far, when I manage to keep my cool and only call the all-in yahoos with AA or KK pre-flop, but gone ahead with a type of small ball once two or three of the yahoos are gone, I've done well. It seems that they only shove for a couple of hands anyway. Most of the time they don't keep shoving once they double or triple up. Or if I happen to be in that hand and win, then they're just gone.

I think the reason why there are arguments for both sides is that there are situations where two different plays are equally correct.

Basic but adapted deep stack strategy seems to work well in a super cheap double stack MTT. Most of the players I've seen from the start to deep are using some form of deep stack strategy. There are a scant few who shove and pray early on.

 

[PNJs_dad]

[ ] Pokerstars donkaments just to get into another tournament.
[ ] Fulltilt 2700 player 10% pay
[x] Private freerolls (smaller fields, better overlay)

IMO.

Sad thing about the Full Tilt ones is it's not 10% pay-out. It's 1% pay-out(27 or 2700). I've saw freerolls with 1500+ in them with top prize being like $4. I agree that it's good experience but sure does suck to beat all those people for such a small amount.

 

[N.D.]

Sad thing about the Full Tilt ones is it's not 10% pay-out. It's 1% pay-out(27 or 2700). I've saw freerolls with 1500+ in them with top prize being like $4. I agree that it's good experience but sure does suck to beat all those people for such a small amount.

I love how people are being really mega-picky(even myself to an extent) about freerolls...

Ever look at the going rate for good pro lessons? Pretty steep. I'd rather get paid $5-$15 for a few hours of effort and learning through experience(albeit limited) than pay a pro what they ask for on an hourly basis(last I looked it was in the hundreds for non-household name pros).

The level of my teacher's expertise is much lower, but then my pockets just aren't anywhere deep enough to pay what the experts get.

 

[ted80]

you'll be able to tell what's a sucker fr after time, if you haven't been fr'n that long. those $100 fr's at full tilt..sucker. top 1%...that's just straight up gettin lucky with that many bad players. i've cashed a few of them but you could be steve mcqueen and those ****ers still call you down with anything. just the other day, after a million tries i cashed the tourney dollar freeroll, which is a turbo on top of it all. the way i see it is...when the odds are against you that bad...that's your chance to have fun! and be a complete and total donkmaster...and that's how i cashed that. sucker freerolls are great when you're bored though, be that asshole you always wanted to be

 

[Poker Orifice]

I love how people are being really mega-picky(even myself to an extent) about freerolls...

Ever look at the going rate for good pro lessons? Pretty steep. I'd rather get paid $5-$15 for a few hours of effort and learning through experience(albeit limited) than pay a pro what they ask for on an hourly basis(last I looked it was in the hundreds for non-household name pros).

The level of my teacher's expertise is much lower, but then my pockets just aren't anywhere deep enough to pay what the experts get.

You're comparing apples to oranges. A good Sunkist Orange doesn't make a good applie pie. imo, freerolls are an oppurtunity to see alot of hands for free. There's very little to be gained as far as learning how to play the game goes imo.... if you think there is... you have a long way to go (which is a good thing). Even deep in those freerolls the play is still terrible.

 

[SilentJay]

sucker freerolls are great when you're bored though, be that asshole you always wanted to be

Depends on how you look at it, I guess. They're only good against boredom if you actually win those asshole hands. But usually they'll be over awfully quickly. Too many opponents who are gonna out-asshole you. And then you just end up frustrated that it's always only the "others" who win by playing like that. Best to just stay away, imo. There are enough half-decent freerolls around on the smaller sites. Quicker, less players, bigger prizepools. All you have to do is look...

 

[ihtennis]

sometimes it can seem pointless, but in the long run it is worth it to gain experience in mtts so that when you are playing with real money, you can do well

 

[doops]

I don't play freerolls for money, per se. I play to try different strategies, or just for fun or to hang with pals, or to blow off steam by donking it (this is rare). I play to see how far I can get using different styles. I play for bragging rights if I get far. I usually play them as seriously as a higher priced game.

That said, I have built up bankrolls at a couple of sites from nothing, starting with a baby freeroll win. There is considerable satisfaction in doing that.

So it's not about the 16 cents. It's not about $/hr. It's about poker and getting better.

 

[MAX101]

Yep, in the beginning, freerolls are pretty much donk fests, but in large freerolls the last 50 to 100 people left generally are pretty good players and you can have a decent time playing, but its just getting there that needs alot of patience,I prefer forum freerolls smaller fields better players and everybody respects each other for the most part lol!!! I've never made a deposit in any poker site, but I got decent bankrolls in more then a few of them, I like to play to relax, I understand I'm not going to get rich, so I just have a good time, and if I lose I don't sweat it, just play a couple of freerolls!

 

[joemac696969]

Yea I played in the US FR on full tilt, It started at 9:05pm and I finished at 27th at 4am for 3 bucks.

 

[KaptainJim]

... hobos make more than that.

LOOOOOOOL!!!!!

Freerolls are a waste of time if you are planning to take up seriously on poker. Life is short, you wont go anywhere depending on free tournaments. Invest a good amount of money and start playing on levels that pay some satisfying money.

As for the experience, you can study a poker book instead rather than loosing your time learning to play poker with donks.

 

[stellerteller]

I love all the comments here. I am also a no deposit player. I have played for four years and have built my bank roll to over $600 this time around (cashed out for $400) a year ago. Now just working on growing it. Morally, I felt like it was okay to play poker if I didn't use my own money, if I went from nothing, that would be a true test of if I had any talent whatsoever. So, freerolls are so worth it... the cash is small but the experience points that you gain are priceless if you plan on making money at it one day. GL at the tables.

 

[flint]

Some private freerolls are decent in their payout. Besides you can watch something while playing especially if you have Poker tracker. Also you can let steam / tilt off by pushing every hand.

Most of the freerolls are quite useless with so many people that its just not worth the time. Like the time I took a first round qualifier freeroll down, 360 people and one person gets 200FPP or something, but still it felt good to be able to take down a tourney.

 

[santa fe slim]

If you havve any bankroll at all, playing for hours against a couple thousand people in a $50 freeroll is a waste of time. On some of them you can play 5-6 hours and still not be in the money.

 

[Jarod1231]

The ones that everyone can play are a waste of time... cc freerolls arent

 

[seuatx]

for me it depends on which freeroll, some are definetly not worth it especially not the ftp 100 fr ..

the U.S. fr at ftp is worth it if you get to the final table you at least get like 6 bux but it takes forever so not sure

needless to say the fr with less ppl are always more worth it since takes less time

 

[PokerJoeAAAA]

LOL, it'd be large if I saved it and didn't venture away from freerolls with less than $100. I've probably won at least that much over a really long period of time, but thing is I keep venturing out into the cash section and getting whooped.

Smart would be to stay in freerolls until I have at least $100. I'm not that smart, I get to itchin' for some cash play and lose my loot.

At least I'm just losing freeroll winnings. Some pros lose a lot more than that with the same bad habit of playing at a particular level without enough loot.

My point was never that you can make a quick and big bankroll off of freerolls, just that they offer a lot more than meets the eye at a glance.

As for the bit about small ball it pays out a lot better, save for hands like AA where it can be tough to small ball and win or pull back a lot of chips. But the great thing is freerolls give you some practice at it and taking advantage of opponents with fewer skills than you.

BTW I'm a weirdo. If I cash at all I'm usually going to the final table, but that was true when I was absolutely clueless too. Thing is, practice in freerolls has me knowing what to do when I get to the final table. That and the cheap R&A's at Cake helped a lot too. They were much nicer than the ones at FTP.

LOL, just as i thought............... Hope to see you at the tables!!!!!