Bigger stack matter?

[john_entony]

Hello brother

I hope I was able to help you

So that's the thing, I'm not complaining about those hands when I'm not the favorite pre-flop. I can't say anything bad about "AA". It's a long shot, at least for me. But, for example, "КК" is a tragedy. Again, if I go all-in (or call all-in) with "КК" against "A2...Q" (when my opponent's stack is 3-4 times bigger than mine, for example), then very often my opponent wins with an incredible % (when, for example, he gets an ace on the river). I won't be upset if I lose with "КК" 2-3 times with 10. But when I lose 6-7 times with 10, it's not normal anymore. To be honest, I lost 11 times in a row with "KK" 2 weeks ago, being the pre-flop favorite. That's why I'm trying to understand the reason.

 

[Recreationalplayer]

Big stacks matter in ICM situations when you can apply pressure on mid stacks.
Also they matter in PKO tournaments. One can play for opponents stacks to pick up bounties.

 

[john_entony]

Players with bigger stacks have more Power to lord it over the table, they will widen their calling ranges to take smaller stacks out, when they go all-in, simply because a player with only 10/15 BBs is going to have to shove at some point and if you have over 100 BBs then losing to a shorter stack is not going to cripple you.
Doyle Brunson won two world titles with 10/2 not because it is a great hand but he called All-in bets from opponents with smaller chip stacks that could not damage his bigger stack if he lost the hand. I once called a player heads up without looking at my hand simply because I had 90% of the chips and he couldn't hurt me if I lost the flip. He had A/K and I had 6/2 off and I won, pairing my 2 on the River.
But there are draw backs to this, Have you ever heard of the phrase "Hero to Zero"? It happens all too often, I got to the FT in a Bounty Hunter game and the player with the biggest Bounty was also the shortest in chips, So at some point he had to have lost a massive all-in that he couldn't come back from, this made him a juicy target to go after and eventually he went out to a sick cooler, his A/K suited getting beat by pocket 4s.
That's Poker!

Read your comment like a poker book! Very beautifully written!

 

[Skot_Gy]

The bigger stack doesn't guarantee winning.
It just helps to play looser or to bully whenever you find the right moment.
So yes, it can bring some advantages if you know what to do, but can also be a disadvantage if you play loose or passive and get caught up in some shady hands

 

[puzzlefish]

Ira, that's right! When I created this topic, I had such hands in mind. If you have a bigger stack, your opponent very rarely gets a straight, flush, ace on the river.... But when you have, for example, a pair of pocket kings, and your opponent have a 3-4 times bigger stack with A2, for some reason he often gets an ace on the river or a straight or flush by 1 card. You are absolutely right about my main question in this thread.

That sounds more like a rigged poker discussion. In which case, take a sample of 200 hands all in preflop where you see a small stack get called off by a big stack. The result should give you an idea if what you are feeling is real or just a feeling.

This topic just invites confusing perspectives from players who try to explain away observations without backing it up with any data. There's nothing wrong with feeling either way about it, but in the end when it's so easy to collect some data points then why not just go ahead and do it and get the answer?

 

[ph_il]

So that's the thing, I'm not complaining about those hands when I'm not the favorite pre-flop. I can't say anything bad about "AA". It's a long shot, at least for me. But, for example, "КК" is a tragedy. Again, if I go all-in (or call all-in) with "КК" against "A2...Q" (when my opponent's stack is 3-4 times bigger than mine, for example), then very often my opponent wins with an incredible % (when, for example, he gets an ace on the river). I won't be upset if I lose with "КК" 2-3 times with 10. But when I lose 6-7 times with 10, it's not normal anymore. To be honest, I lost 11 times in a row with "KK" 2 weeks ago, being the pre-flop favorite. That's why I'm trying to understand the reason.

this is called variance in poker and its why a large sample size is important. you can be unlucky in the short term, but poker is a long term game.

take an actual coin and flip 10x in a row. then do that another 10 times for 100 total flips. it's 50/50, so it should be 5 heads / 5 tails every time you flip it 10x, right? well, it doesn't always happen and you might get 4/6 or 3/7, etc in favor of one side.

does that mean it's not 50/50? no it just means your sample size is too small. add the total results for each side for 100 flips and it might be closer to even. flip it another 1k, 10k times and it'll be even closer.

and that's how poker variance works. just because you lost kk 11x in a row doesn't mean anything because you're only looking at a small sample. what about the other hundreds or thousands of times you had kk before this as preflop favorite? what about the other hundreds or thousands of times you'll have kk after this, as a preflop favorite? what all the times you'll win as a preflop underdog? all these other kk hands factor in, not just the 11 times you lost in a row.

if you play mtts, you can expect more variance because of the structure of the game, the raising blinds, the fight for chip accumulation, and the fact that all players need be eliminated in order to win. so, if a big stack can accumulate more chips, knock a player out, and increase their chances of winning, with minimal risk to their stack, they have more incentive to call.

 

[pep12343]

On the contrary, I have seen them win stacks legally and that the game gives them a very good hand with which they lose. Having tokens helps, but if you don't know how to use them, you're going to give them away.

 

[jonaselloco]

100% correct brother. What I love about your example is the BB with AA, what many players dont realize is if all 3 call his all in he will only win 54.7% of the time.

Hello brother how are you so long without talking to us???

I hope that both you and your family are in optimal conditions, I bless that.

I am still half crestfallen due to the death of my pet Jonas 2 and a half months ago, but anyway, during this time I have dedicated to prioritizing poker playing cash and taking courses with a Chilean teacher Fabian Pichara and watching Zeros Poker videos, which It has strengthened my game in microlimits to a great level we would say.

Regarding your comment, I agree 100% absolutely.

What's more, I didn't want to put in my example the possibilities of AA at hand, but rather situate the example in what many of us call "bad luck".

Nowadays in tournaments many times you open from early position with 99 88 AQo AJo etc, medium hands and they go allin behind you with a bigger stack and you say "ufff this hand is strong I can't fold the call" but you don't have in mind Count the infinity of range hands of your rival that beat you preflop, all the suited ones, plus all the high pairs are a large infinity of combos that in general will make your hand a loser.
What's more, before doing these courses, I questioned how I could lose so many times with AQo, for example, a very tempting hand but at the same time very losing, let's say preflop. And when in the courses I began to understand the whole matter of ranges, openings in position with initiative or without initiative, that's when I began to understand the value of many hands that I didn't care about before.

Previously I believed quite like our friend. With the passage of time I began to discover that it is not so. The game is quite well suited for those who play it best, both live and online, in cash and MTT. In general, the basic rule is "you play badly and you lose" You can make an allin with KK and he can call you with 33 and he clicks the 3 in set and that's bad luck, but the same example reversed is not bad luck, but is to play badly

It is my humble opinion brother, and I thank you for supporting my post 100%

I love you very much, a huge hug for you and your family

Carlos

 

[jonaselloco]

So that's the thing, I'm not complaining about those hands when I'm not the favorite pre-flop. I can't say anything bad about "AA". It's a long shot, at least for me. But, for example, "КК" is a tragedy. Again, if I go all-in (or call all-in) with "КК" against "A2...Q" (when my opponent's stack is 3-4 times bigger than mine, for example), then very often my opponent wins with an incredible % (when, for example, he gets an ace on the river). I won't be upset if I lose with "КК" 2-3 times with 10. But when I lose 6-7 times with 10, it's not normal anymore. To be honest, I lost 11 times in a row with "KK" 2 weeks ago, being the pre-flop favorite. That's why I'm trying to understand the reason.

Hello Brother how are you

The reason is to try to understand that poker is a game in general of strategy and mathematical possibilities.

Let's say to cite an example. You play a lottery ticket and there are 10,000 numbers at stake. The mathematical possibility that you have that your ticket is the favored one is 1 in 10,000.

You play all-in KK against AQ. If in the hand there are neither straight nor flush possibilities for your opponent on the first streets flop and turn, the mathematical possibility that he will beat you is with 3 in 48, preflop, multiplied by 5 on the flop, by 2 on the turn and for 1 on the river.
In other words, x 5, x 2 and x 1 are the streets in which he has the possibility of hitting an Ace, which is the card he wins from you. In other words, on the river he still has a 3 in 44 chance, that is, 52 cards minus 4 (2 yours and 2 from your opponent) plus 4 cards on the flop and turn.
In other words, on the river he still has a 6.81% chance of hitting his Ace.

Of course, that's why the badbeat is so tremendous because one says that it's almost impossible for it to happen, but it happens. That's why the turns in which you have a huge amount of odds to exploit are so well exploited.

A hug brother

 

[pedrovitorcosta]

Hello!
Do a push/fold range study and don't worry about it anymore. The rest will be pure variance.

agreed

 

[jonaselloco]

Hello brother

Here's the hand in an MTT that I'm playing that @Luvepoker mentioned

Greetings

 

[Buleet]

Я неоднократно замечал это на Pokerstars и сам много раз сталкивался с такими случаями. Думаю, генератор случайных чисел на ПокерСтарс изначально настроен так, чтобы турниры не затягивались по времени, а потому велика вероятность того, что большой стек выбьет из игры маленький

you focus your attention on such moments. is a negative variance and only

 

[puzzlefish]

Hello brother

Here's the hand in an MTT that I'm playing that @Luvepoker mentioned

Greetings

So this one it's the second biggest stack that wins, so does that make this a situation where the small stack won? Or is it a situation where the smallest stack lost with the best cards, but the biggest stack called off with 27s?

 

[ghitocarcia]

Of course it's important because if we're talking about tournaments, you can mainly open more hands and you can put a lot of pressure on short players.

 

[jonaselloco]

So this one it's the second biggest stack that wins, so does that make this a situation where the small stack won? Or is it a situation where the smallest stack lost with the best cards, but the biggest stack called off with 27s?

Hello brother

Actually the smallest stack was the QJo

I explain the hand

UTG opens with 72s limp 1 BB
HJ with AA raises 3 BB
BN with QJo goes all-in 9 BB
UTG pays 9 BB
HJ goes all-in with 27 BB
UTG pays again 27 BB

Then the hand ends as it ended

The comment is that I was at the table, the UTG player
He is an ultra recreational who paid hands with anything, everything suited him.
The HJ player had two ugly hands, a cooler and another that made him a straight and well he had to fold, but he played well.
And the player in BN good poor, he liked his QJo and went all-in with few BB, and ultimately he was the winner

Greetings

 

[puzzlefish]

Hello brother

Actually the smallest stack was the QJo

I explain the hand

UTG opens with 72s limp 1 BB
HJ with AA raises 3 BB
BN with QJo goes all-in 9 BB
UTG pays 9 BB
HJ goes all-in with 27 BB
UTG pays again 27 BB

Then the hand ends as it ended

The comment is that I was at the table, the UTG player
He is an ultra recreational who paid hands with anything, everything suited him.
The HJ player had two ugly hands, a cooler and another that made him a straight and well he had to fold, but he played well.
And the player in BN good poor, he liked his QJo and went all-in with few BB, and ultimately he was the winner

Greetings

So both the smallest stack and the biggest stack won together, but the smallest stack also got the best hand on the river whereas the biggest stack won the side pot against the best hand at the table preflop.

 

[sumdumguy]

that pair of Aces at UTG hardly ever work... right Jonas?

 

[poweROFLuck]

If his 3bb raise is 80% or 100% of your stack of course it matters, specially in pokerstars i have seen people plenty of times calling you with 10 3 and win just because they don't care about losing that amount of chips

 

[puzzlefish]

that pair of Aces at UTG hardly ever work... right Jonas?

But whatever hand follows on BB seems to work pretty well!

 

[jazux48]

Yes, I also often see a player with a larger stack on the river win, well, poker is part of a game of luck. It can't be called a pattern

 

[jonaselloco]

So both the smallest stack and the biggest stack won together, but the smallest stack also got the best hand on the river whereas the biggest stack won the side pot against the best hand at the table preflop.

exactly brother

 

[muleyy999]

Have heard this theory and no it is not true. My friend on this forum went over and over this several years ago. He was totally convinced it was true. I then asked him why I win so often as a smaller stack. We looked over my hand history's and he was a bit surprises I was rarely a big stack. This was Alao over multiple sites.

As for the junk they have, yes, they can call with trash. AA vs 72 still loses 12% of the time in this worst-case scenario. AKs vs 72o will lose 31% of the time.

Those are the odds that make it very frustrating but those are the odds you must take into account and base your bets on and with a big stack you can meet the size of any bet if the pot equity is right

 

[WellAA]

I have repeatedly noticed this at Pokerstars and have come across such cases myself many times. I think the random number generator at PokerStars is initially set up so that tournaments do not drag out in time, and therefore there is a high probability that a large stack will knock a small one out of the game

Another anti-PS guy. I remember one in-person tourney in my city that I won 23 hands in a row. I would like to add that could be 24 if I called with 22 that would became four of a kind I folded pre-flop though, and I got the first place on that tourney BTW.

 

[Luvepoker]

Hello brother how are you so long without talking to us???

I hope that both you and your family are in optimal conditions, I bless that.

I am still half crestfallen due to the death of my pet Jonas 2 and a half months ago, but anyway, during this time I have dedicated to prioritizing poker playing cash and taking courses with a Chilean teacher Fabian Pichara and watching Zeros Poker videos, which It has strengthened my game in microlimits to a great level we would say.

Regarding your comment, I agree 100% absolutely.



It is my humble opinion brother, and I thank you for supporting my post 100%

I love you very much, a huge hug for you and your family

Carlos

Carlos my brother, it has been a while. Life has gotten in the way of my being more active postings. The last 18+ months have been a bit crazy, but its looking like life will be getting back to something more normal soon. I will even be able to play some more poker again.

I am so sorry for your loss of Jonas. It's never easy to love out pets as they really do become part of our family. I'm glad to hear your working on your game. I have been really working on mine as well.

Thanks for the hugs and love. Lots of love to you and your family as well.

Hello brother

Actually the smallest stack was the QJo

I explain the hand

UTG opens with 72s limp 1 BB
HJ with AA raises 3 BB
BN with QJo goes all-in 9 BB
UTG pays 9 BB
HJ goes all-in with 27 BB
UTG pays again 27 BB

Then the hand ends as it ended

The comment is that I was at the table, the UTG player
He is an ultra recreational who paid hands with anything, everything suited him.
The HJ player had two ugly hands, a cooler and another that made him a straight and well he had to fold, but he played well.
And the player in BN good poor, he liked his QJo and went all-in with few BB, and ultimately he was the winner

Greetings

While the aces losing this having is a crime, I would be doing a fist pump every time this guy was at my table. Opening UNG with 72s and calling a 3bet then a 4 bet jam is something I would love to see every time. Overall, he is money making machine for us.

 

[ToNy70929]

Another anti-PS guy. I remember one in-person tourney in my city that I won 23 hands in a row. I would like to add that could be 24 if I called with 22 that would became four of a kind I folded pre-flop though, and I got the first place on that tourney BTW.

Dear friend, I am not an opponent of PS, but simply stating what I have observed many times, now I treat such moments evenly, almost painlessly. If I was very angry at PS, then I probably would not play poker online at all. The random number generator is configured by specialists, it is the same as a one-armed bandit, or other casino games, when the percentage of the probability of combinations is set. I am happy for you and your luck, I also want such luck