Why am I losing overall with AK?

[S3mper]

4 betting with the intention of folding to a 5 bet has to be -EV I would rather flat the 3 bet (In position) how big are you 4 betting though?

I think QQ 5 bets too often to be 4 bet folding AK.. especially when you have a blocker to AA KK

 

[transformpoker]

AK is definitely a winning hand, in the sense that it has fantastic playability pre- and post-flop, especially in heads up and 3 handed pots when domination is more valuable. AK is in the top 3%-4% of hands, so it's pretty good!

If you're losing with AK, then there are a few most likely reasons:

• Your sample size is small - If you don't have enough hands and since many pots with AK are large ones, a 600bb loss isn't a big deal. You can lose 6 coin flips in a row. It happens.
  
• You over-value AK pre-flop - In some situations, getting AK all-in pre-flop is a mistake, especially against overly tight players. For example, against most opponents, open-raising AK UTG and 4-betting with the intention of calling your opponent's all-in, you're very likely going to see KK or AA and be dominated. Still, players get AK all-in pre-flop in these situations all the time and feel they're unlucky to have run into KK or AA. If those are the only hands with which your opponent is value jamming all-in, there isn't very much luck at all there!
  
• You over-play AK post-flop - Just because you have top pair with top kicker does NOT mean you have the nuts, particularly deeper stacked. If you're automatically stacking off with top-pair and top-kicker every time in NLHE, especially multi-way, then your game needs some work.
  
• You under-play AK post-flop - Ace-king is the best ace-high. In re-raised pots on low-low-low flops like 2:heart:2:spade:6:diamond: AK is actually quite powerful and a relatively strong holding in a heads up re-raised pot. If you aren't getting to showdown in those spots with ace-high, then it's likely you're underplaying the hand a bit. Against some players who rarely check strong hands on the river, you can even value bet the ace-high to eek out a few more big blinds in your win rate.

 

[RodneyC86]

4 betting with the intention of folding to a 5 bet has to be -EV I would rather flat the 3 bet (In position) how big are you 4 betting though?

I think QQ 5 bets too often to be 4 bet folding AK.. especially when you have a blocker to AA KK

As I said, it is A very marginal move to call AK QQ+ 5 bet shove with AK. We have 38 pct equity. If we have 4 bet to 23 bb then on a shove by a 100bb opponent we have to call with 77bb to make 123bb (it's actually more like 119bb d/t rake). We then just need to win at around 37 to 38 percent to be neutral EV. Why I say you need to see if your opponent can 4bet light at all.

If we 4bet to 25bb then I guess we have to call regardless

 

[LeanAndMean]

I have no hard facts, haven't kept records. But I love AK, I THINK I win with it more than any other hand. for me it is an all in. Doyle says in "Super System II" that you should go all in before the flop with AK because you are too likely to abandon it if the flop doesn't hit.

 

[RodneyC86]

I have no hard facts, haven't kept records. But I love AK, I THINK I win with it more than any other hand. for me it is an all in. Doyle says in "Super System II" that you should go all in before the flop with AK because you are too likely to abandon it if the flop doesn't hit.

Implying that you should not flat a 4bet pre. Nice

 

[akaRobbo]

I have no hard facts, haven't kept records. But I love AK, I THINK I win with it more than any other hand. for me it is an all in. Doyle says in "Super System II" that you should go all in before the flop with AK because you are too likely to abandon it if the flop doesn't hit.

How do you go about going all in pre with AK? I guess were getting value by folding out 3bets and 4bets, not just showdown. Do you 4bet shove? 5bet shove? Or play AK like you would AA, meaning 4betting and 5betting?

 

[IPlay]

How do you go about going all in pre with AK? I guess were getting value by folding out 3bets and 4bets, not just showdown. Do you 4bet shove? 5bet shove? Or play AK like you would AA, meaning 4betting and 5betting?

I play AK like I do AA in a sense. It is rare that I flat a 4 bet with AA or AK always 5 bet shoving AA and AK. If villain has something crazy like 2% 3bet in 100 hands than yeah, I fold AK.

 

[RodneyC86]

How do you go about going all in pre with AK? I guess were getting value by folding out 3bets and 4bets, not just showdown. Do you 4bet shove? 5bet shove? Or play AK like you would AA, meaning 4betting and 5betting?

AK needs to be shoved all in to be profitable rather than call an all in because it needs fold equity to be profitable. If you call, as I mentioned above, you're just running the variance treadmill.

 

[IPlay]

AK needs to be shoved all in to be profitable rather than call an all in because it needs fold equity to be profitable. If you call, as I mentioned above, you're just running the variance treadmill.

Bingo, unless you are getting great odds calling a shove with AK is probably -EV since they are never really showing up with anything other than a pocket pair which you are a dog to. I still make the call from time to time but it really depends on the situation. This theory is the same reason why flatting a 4 bet with ak is bad because you have no initiative so if you miss the flop, then what? Check raise and get it in on the flop, or maybe fold the flop to one bet in a 4 bet pot? When you flat the 4 bet you are basically praying you hit the flop and make your hand because if you don't you are screwed. You for sure are not wanting to flat a 4 bet pre and fold the flop to one bet. The pot is so inflated at this point that this is pretty much your only option unless you are 200BB+ deep.

 

[Arjonius]

AK needs to be shoved all in to be profitable rather than call an all in because it needs fold equity to be profitable. If you call, as I mentioned above, you're just running the variance treadmill.

Maybe this helps to explain your prior contention that

It's a losing hand at 2NL

 

[CASEACE79]

At the end of the day AK is a drawing hand and as with all drawing hands should be played with caution in relevance to the board. I love AK in tourneys but cash games I play them a little stronger than small pocket pairs. I used to over value them but saw how often I was losing with them.

 

[RodneyC86]

Maybe this helps to explain your prior contention that

The losing thing was a joke. AK is OP at 2NL

 

[JamaicanKid]

At the end of the day AK is a drawing hand and as with all drawing hands should be played with caution in relevance to the board. I love AK in tourneys but cash games I play them a little stronger than small pocket pairs. I used to over value them but saw how often I was losing with them.

This!!! Good answer.....

 

[magicius]

Was just checking my hand chart and realised i've lost just short of 600Bb with AKs and AKo combined with AKs losing me 487bbs, i'd figure these hands should be making me money not losing money, sample is quite small, only over 400 hands with AK so i'd assume this would even out the more hands i play? Maybe i just play AK terribly i'm not sure.

Yea same story with me....
Pretty much same sample,now when someone shove i would call with AA or KK only! If i hold AK i will make large open raise and if i dont hit something nice i will fold it... Also i will 3bet and if getting 4bet will fold...

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[gattusoleon]

the 4th best hand no?

 

[magicius]

the 4th best hand no?

Mmmm no

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[baudib1]

All hands are drawing hands.

 

[IPlay]

All hands are drawing hands.

I love drawing with pocket aces.

 

[magicius]

I love drawing with pocket aces.

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[Ubercroz]

and more of the same....you know, i win at sports betting and am a damn good poker player, but these sites are all rigged and that makes humanity a huge fail....i hate you all.

What are you talking about?

poker sites aren't rigged, you're bad at poker.

I don't know what to tell you about the rest. Life sucks I guess, eventually you will get over it.

 

[RodneyC86]

and more of the same....you know, i win at sports betting and am a damn good poker player, but these sites are all rigged and that makes humanity a huge fail....i hate you all.

If you think you are good, you are 100 percent a bad player

Why do I even bother responding ???

 

[pokerandpoker]

You can overestimate AK postflop. Preflop it's a great hand, but everything can change on the flop. Also, you want to play AK against fewer players so if you aren't raising with it preflop, that could also be an issue.

 

[pokerandpoker]

Also, try focusing on being a winning player and reading your opponents and their tendencies and that will improve the chances of all of your hands winning and not just AK.

 

[Staneff]

Every hand is a winner pre-flop. We choose to play high cards cuz they look strong pre-flop, but this doesnt mean they win post-flop. If you miss the flop with AK you'll probably check/fold or maybe call min-bet. But if you have AA your play wont be that passive. Making bad decisions pre-flop with AK is the reason of high percentage losed hands with them. You can play pre-flop very well with AK but the most important is to play them on the flop, turn and river the way which is the winning one. If you miss the flop with AK you dont need to go too deep. Keep the pot small. Fold on any chance Ace high is not the winning hand. Make sure you never overestimate AK when you miss the flop. AK is a hand you can go all-in pre-flop only when you are short stack and next few BBs will be your last.

 

[Bazslazs93]

Always depends on your playstyle and the board how bad or how good your hand!