I can't beat $10NL

[robwhufc]

I still think that your thinking like an MTT player.

I think that's pretty much it in a nutshell tbh.

AG, i've been EXACTLY where you are, done well at the MTT's and SNG's, but just can't do a thing at the NL ring games. I've come to accept now that it just doesn't suit me. I certainly don't think they they are beyond me, I just don't find them of interest and they are not suited to my personality or personal situation. I haven't got the time or patience to put in the 4-5 hour sessions. I see hand histories posted from respected and successful members on site, and I think "why are they playing for 2 hours, and winning $5-$10"? Of course those $5-10 build up, and these are the players that amass the bankrolls and are then able to go up the levels, but I want to bluff people, I want to be the big stack bully, I want to hoover up the blinds, I want to move up the payout list, I dont want to win 30 cent pots, I dont want to win little pots and lose big ones, and I dont want to play on a table where i'm getting no action.

I'm not a ring game player, but i would suggest that there are a large number of rock players, playing 4 or 8 tables, waiting and waiting for a big hand, running Pokeroffice and PAhud, and they are making consistent gains form players that are either total fish, or are playing too loose and too aggressive.

You either need to completely change your style or just concentrate on what you are good at which is tournaments, where your loose agressive style is more likely to get you paid off.

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

Why don't I see any hand posteds in HA for discussion?

He's posted some in this thread...

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

I don't profess to be a ring game guru myself (though I am a winner at 25NL ), but Liam and Rob have it pretty much bang on, I think.

To be honest I haven't played much with you, but from what I have seen (both first and 'second'-hand), your tourney game essentially revolves around acquiring a stack early on and maintaining it so you have chips to throw around when the time comes (you do tend to either bust very early or final table CC events, after all!).

Some of the hands you've posted here still reek of "I'm trying to build a stack" syndrome. Doubtless upon reflection you know that this isn't an effective way to play ring games against loose-passives, but it's hard to break habits. Simply, you're used to playing a somewhat LAG style while deep-stacked (i.e. in early tourney stages) and are having some difficulty reverting to effective $10NL strategy from this.

Of course, the difference is that the blinds don't go up in ring games and nobody's 'tournament life' is at stake, hence you are probably even more likely to get called down light by a 'standard' $10NL player than by a 'standard' low-buyin tourney player (even in the early stages). The static blinds and horrible players really do combine to make patience the order of the day.

It's cliché, but big pots really are for big hands. That 77 hand you posted where you shoved the turn for like 4 times the pot with third pair or something was horrible, and obviously you know it was, but it's entirely likely you're making less-exaggerated but not much less horrible plays in other hands.

Avoid fancy play syndrome - FP made a really good blog post about it a while ago which may be worth digging out. One of the QQ hands where you called an EP raise immediately stands out - by calling we're merely inviting others into the hand and heightening the chances that we will make a mistake later in the hand. Reraise, get the EP raiser to call (which they invariably will at $10NL), and play a swollen pot heads up against someone who;s range you're crushing. Don't call thinking either "hey someone in LP might squeeze and I can shove here" (98% of $10NL players don't know what a squeeze is) or "by calling I'm representing a weaker hand than I have which could be advantageous on future streets" (91% of $10NL players won't put you on a range of hands ever).

You're obviously running bad to some degree as well, the lost races and set over sets are evidence enough, but don't worry about that - variance will take care of itself, but mistakes won't.

 

[Effexor]

*What Tenbob said*

I've had a very difficult time adjusting to ring games. Here's the main point that I want to get across since I've been thinking about this a lot this past week.

Ring games are all about implied odds. Where in a MTT or SNG, I'm almost never calling a raise with 78s, or 79s, or even playing 79s. The effective stack sizes other than maybe the first round of blinds make it not profitable. Plus, being the first in the pot you've got fold equity where in a cash game you don't have the fold equity like in a SNG. Meanwhile, in a cash game I'm calling a raise in position with a good drawing hand every time, specially if 2 or more people have shown interest. Yes I may miss 9 times out of 10 and lose 3BB every time, but the time I hit I've found I typically win upwards of 100 BB easily. Thats why TB mentions stack sizes and playing against people shortstacked. 78s on the button vs a 100BB stack's 3BB raise? hell ya I'm playing that. vs a 20BB stack? never. Same with small PP's. It's basically the polar opposite than MTT thinking. In a MTT, I'll happily push 55 against a small stack that doesn't threaten mine. Cash game? forget it

No offense to the rocks / nits out there, but I don't agree that a vpip of 14 is a money maker. Low 20's is plenty tight enough and you'll still get action. AG, I guarantee that your post flop play is way better than 98% at this level. Play those good drawing hands, even OOP if the implied odds make it worthwhile.

Also, for the most part, just play the cards you are dealt. bluffing and making plays are long term losers at 10nl.

Don't go broke with top pair in an unraised pot.

Tone back the aggression a tad (specially PF), don't push small edges so hard. I read an article where Phil Ivy said that the place to take risks is in MTT's and not in ring games. I really didn't like the hand where you 3bet AIPF with AK. Nobody at these levels reraises with AQ/AJ type hands. This is your MTT thinking here using your fold equity, which I am sure you have exactly none vs someone reraising PF.

FWIW, I'm rooting for you on this endeavor.

 

[Irexes]

I was going to write some of the same stuff.

I've had half a dozen goes at playing ring over the last 3 years and Rob's post really echos my experiences. I can relate entirely.

Then suddenly this time around something clicked and I've developed a completely reengineered game for Ring. The key has been a different mental approach to the game from my MTT one. Reading those hands above I see a tourney approach which is seeing you massively overcommitted in some spots where you should be keeping it small.

 

[jaymfc]

That 77 hand you posted where you shoved the turn for like 4 times the pot with third pair or something was horrible, and obviously you know it was


third set but can you explain a little more here why it was so bad I thought it was good move bad result

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

third set

wrong hand i think.

edit: details were a bit off seeing as i didn't notice villain was short but it's still horrid obviously.

 

[aliengenius]

ok, I have some questions.

1. Regarding preflop aggression-- lower, right? Since having the lead in the hand isn't as valuable?

2. C-bets: no? What about against someone who ALWAYS calls the flop bet? It would seen that this would be an ideal person to bet into, as they will call your missed big ace with a weaker hand, but.... ?

3. This is overall a more passive form of poker in general? i.e., we will be doing a lot of calling preflop and check folding the flop, right?

 

[Irexes]

More about potsize managment than tournies I feel.

You are looking to build the pot quickly with strength.

But when you are weak you are looking to try and take a stab without creating a situation where you are then doomed to put in more chips behind on subsequent streets.

Position postflop is of course critical for cbets.

I've found cbetting works providing it's sized right and I then let go in the face of resistance or if the turn is checked to me and the board allows have another go there. Betting the turn with nothing if called on the flop requires a really solid context to be worthwhile even if I sense they are weak.

If I'm playing for stacks it's because I am almost certain I'm ahead and I don't mind folding a lot of small pots when I'm ahead

Probably going to need to get more elaborate at higher levels, but the number of fancy plays I've made in 20k hands at 25NL is tiny. I'm viewing it as a solid grounding before I move to games where people are playing the player rather than the cards.

 

[Emperor IX]

All this is making me want to sit at a 2c/5c table on stars (that's also $10max)

 

[aliengenius]

1. I tightened up today (vp$ip down to 18.48).

2. I eliminated all off suit broadway hands, unless I had a tight image and the blinds were stealable when it was open folded to me late.

3. I tightened up considerably from the small blind.

4. Didn't stack for the whole ten bucks at all today. Here is my biggest single loss in one hand, a flush over flush:

fulltiltpoker Game #5499047831: Table Bellview - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:30:09 ET - 2008/03/04
Seat 1: xxwonkoxx ($4.10)
Seat 2: Blohm84 ($13.30)
Seat 3: christopherZ ($2.10)
Seat 4: GlamourGirl8 ($6.80)
Seat 5: aliengenius ($10)
Seat 6: Climber112 ($11.50)
Seat 7: PythonWannabe ($4.50)
Seat 8: OnkelKC ($10.70)
Seat 9: adolf8880 ($1.70)
GlamourGirl8 posts the small blind of $0.05
aliengenius posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aliengenius [7d 8d]
Climber112 folds
PythonWannabe folds
OnkelKC folds
adolf8880 folds
xxwonkoxx folds
Blohm84 folds
christopherZ folds
GlamourGirl8 raises to $0.30
aliengenius calls $0.20
*** FLOP *** [5d Jd 3h]
GlamourGirl8 bets $0.25
aliengenius raises to $0.75
GlamourGirl8 calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [5d Jd 3h] 3♣
GlamourGirl8 checks
aliengenius bets $1
GlamourGirl8 calls $1
*** RIVER *** [5d Jd 3h 3c] 4♦
GlamourGirl8 checks
aliengenius bets $5
GlamourGirl8 calls $4.75, and is all in
Uncalled bet of $0.25 returned to aliengenius
*** SHOW DOWN ***
aliengenius shows [7d 8d] a flush, Jack high
GlamourGirl8 shows [Qd Ad] a flush, Ace high
GlamourGirl8 wins the pot ($12.25) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $13.60 | Rake $1.35
Board: [5d Jd 3h 3c 4d]
Seat 1: xxwonkoxx didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Blohm84 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: christopherZ (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: GlamourGirl8 (small blind) showed [Qd Ad] and won ($12.25) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 5: aliengenius (big blind) showed [7d 8d] and lost with a flush, Jack high
Seat 6: Climber112 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: PythonWannabe didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: OnkelKC didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: adolf8880 didn't bet (folded)

5. Still only made 85 cents on my sets, few that they were.

6. Biggest wins were weird hands, one where I sucked out on a guy who slowplayed AA, the other where I randomly decided to play Q6s otb after several limpers and flopped a boat.

FullTiltPoker Game #5500717183: Table Tara - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:56:13 ET - 2008/03/04
Seat 1: thenewevil ($2)
Seat 2: iboing ($14.55)
Seat 3: TX_Dillo ($9.30)
Seat 4: Bloodyappie ($1.85)
Seat 5: Lash16 ($11.40)
Seat 6: Cuuldurach ($1.85)
Seat 7: lojick01 ($8.25)
Seat 8: aliengenius ($13.15)
Seat 9: Bulldozer154 ($1.85)
aliengenius posts the small blind of $0.05
Bulldozer154 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aliengenius [8c 9s]
thenewevil folds
iboing folds
TX_Dillo folds
Bloodyappie folds
Lash16 calls $0.10
Cuuldurach folds
lojick01 calls $0.10
aliengenius calls $0.05
Bulldozer154 checks
*** FLOP *** [2c 4s 9h]
aliengenius bets $0.40
Bulldozer154 folds
Lash16 calls $0.40
lojick01 folds
*** TURN *** [2c 4s 9h] 7♦
aliengenius bets $0.80
Lash16 calls $0.80
*** RIVER *** [2c 4s 9h 7d] 8♠
aliengenius bets $2.80
Lash16 raises to $5.60
aliengenius raises to $11.85, and is all in
Lash16 calls $4.50, and is all in
Uncalled bet of $1.75 returned to aliengenius
*** SHOW DOWN ***
aliengenius shows [8c 9s] two pair, Nines and Eights
Lash16 mucks
aliengenius wins the pot ($21) with two pair, Nines and Eights
Lash16 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $23 | Rake $2
Board: [2c 4s 9h 7d 8s]
Seat 1: thenewevil didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: iboing didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: TX_Dillo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Bloodyappie didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Lash16 mucked [As Ad] - a pair of Aces
Seat 6: Cuuldurach didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: lojick01 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: aliengenius (small blind) showed [8c 9s] and won ($21) with two pair, Nines and Eights
Seat 9: Bulldozer154 (big blind) folded on the Flop

FullTiltPoker Game #5501095025: Table Grandeur - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:26:59 ET - 2008/03/04
Seat 1: Regy69 ($9.75)
Seat 2: LeZuton ($19.05)
Seat 3: pocketfish007 ($12.20)
Seat 4: Ace Action ($9.80)
Seat 5: LennyAchan ($7.85)
Seat 6: aliengenius ($10)
Seat 7: ChiTownDuck ($15.50)
Seat 8: Fooco ($3.45)
Seat 9: iamsolitary ($4.40)
Fooco posts the small blind of $0.05
iamsolitary posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aliengenius [Qc 6c]
Regy69 folds
LeZuton folds
pocketfish007 folds
Ace Action calls $0.10
LennyAchan calls $0.10
aliengenius calls $0.10
ChiTownDuck folds
Fooco calls $0.05
iamsolitary checks
*** FLOP *** [Qh 6d 6s]
Fooco checks
iamsolitary checks
Ace Action checks
LennyAchan bets $0.10
aliengenius raises to $0.35
Fooco folds
iamsolitary raises to $1.20
Ace Action folds
LennyAchan calls $1.10
aliengenius calls $0.85
*** TURN *** [Qh 6d 6s] J♥
iamsolitary bets $3.10, and is all in
LennyAchan raises to $6.55, and is all in
aliengenius calls $6.55
LennyAchan shows [Ah Th]
aliengenius shows [Qc 6c]
iamsolitary shows [6h 9c]
*** RIVER *** [Qh 6d 6s Jh] 8♦
LennyAchan shows a pair of Sixes
aliengenius shows a full house, Sixes full of Queens
aliengenius wins the side pot ($6.20) with a full house, Sixes full of Queens
iamsolitary shows three of a kind, Sixes
aliengenius wins the main pot ($12.10) with a full house, Sixes full of Queens
LennyAchan is sitting out
iamsolitary is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $20.30 Main pot $13.40. Side pot $6.90. | Rake $2
Board: [Qh 6d 6s Jh 8d]
Seat 1: Regy69 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: LeZuton didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: pocketfish007 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Ace Action folded on the Flop
Seat 5: LennyAchan showed [Ah Th] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 6: aliengenius showed [Qc 6c] and won ($18.30) with a full house, Sixes full of Queens
Seat 7: ChiTownDuck (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Fooco (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: iamsolitary (big blind) showed [6h 9c] and lost with three of a kind, Sixes

7. I eliminated bluffing post flop almost entirely. It was very painful for me, but I did a lot of check folding on the flop.

I was down $14 until the Q6s hand, despite my adjustments. +$4.50 for the day overall. How is it that I can play over 1,000 hands and not make any money?

I guess I still don't get it.

 

[blankoblanco]

How is it that I can play over 1,000 hands and not make any money?

I guess I still don't get it.

1k hands is a really microscopic sample

 

[NoWuckingFurries]

I was down $14 until the Q6s hand, despite my adjustments. +$4.50 for the day overall. How is it that I can play over 1,000 hands and not make any money?

I guess I still don't get it.

Surely that's good news! :questionm
Sounds like a step in the right direction, anyway, if you were three buy-ins down yesterday... :dontknow:
Perhaps your downswing is finishing, too - hopefully!

 

[aliengenius]

Ok, played 837 hands today, for a profit of $19.00 (11.35ptbb/100). It's not like I have not had days like this before, but it's still nice given my recent results. My losses ($3.50 and $2.00) were "big" hands (JJ and AJ) that ran into short stacks that had me pipped (QQ and AQ). Also, I did try two bluffs that failed (I know, I know...):

FullTiltPoker Game #5510694660: Table Railbirds.com - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:13:18 ET - 2008/03/05
Seat 1: Rike178 ($6.30)
Seat 2: doozle77 ($12.40)
Seat 3: jokeracaso ($4.15)
Seat 4: aliengenius ($10.65)
Seat 6: Tok4 ($8.15)
Seat 7: Pot Ed ($3.50)
Seat 8: mcalder ($15.35)
Seat 9: Bubbu1 ($3.85)
Rike178 posts the small blind of $0.05
doozle77 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aliengenius [2h 2d]
jokeracaso calls $0.10
aliengenius calls $0.10
Pot Ed stands up
Tok4 folds
Pot Ed folds
mcalder folds
Bubbu1 raises to $0.55
Rike178 folds
doozle77 folds
jokeracaso calls $0.45
Skabt 87 sits down
Skabt 87 adds $4
aliengenius calls $0.45
*** FLOP *** [7h 8h 3c]
jokeracaso checks
aliengenius checks
Bubbu1 bets $0.80
jokeracaso folds
aliengenius has 15 seconds left to act
aliengenius has requested TIME
aliengenius raises to $4.20
Bubbu1 calls $2.50, and is all in
aliengenius shows [2h 2d]
Bubbu1 shows [Jh Jc]
Uncalled bet of $0.90 returned to aliengenius
*** TURN *** [7h 8h 3c] [Ad]
*** RIVER *** [7h 8h 3c Ad] [6c]
aliengenius shows a pair of Twos
Bubbu1 shows a pair of Jacks
Bubbu1 wins the pot ($7.60) with a pair of Jacks
aliengenius adds $3.20
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.40 | Rake $0.80
Board: [7h 8h 3c Ad 6c]
Seat 1: Rike178 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: doozle77 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: jokeracaso folded on the Flop
Seat 4: aliengenius showed [2h 2d] and lost with a pair of Twos
Seat 6: Tok4 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Pot Ed didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: mcalder didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Bubbu1 (button) showed [Jh Jc] and won ($7.60) with a pair of Jacks

and the ol' phantom outs bluff (oops):

FullTiltPoker Game #5510955215: Table Boulder - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:46:11 ET - 2008/03/05
Seat 1: chocomelz ($4.55)
Seat 2: aliengenius ($13.45)
Seat 3: Fradiboy666 ($2.15)
Seat 4: ZenPirate ($1.20)
Seat 5: blow up44 ($12.60)
Seat 6: DrugsNotGood ($1.85)
Seat 7: Josh1313 ($10)
Seat 8: thenielsen ($12.90)
Seat 9: MrBubinho ($19.95), is sitting out
thenielsen posts the small blind of $0.05
chocomelz posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aliengenius [7d 6d]
aliengenius has 15 seconds left to act
aliengenius calls $0.10
Fradiboy666 folds
ZenPirate folds
blow up44 folds
DrugsNotGood has 15 seconds left to act
DrugsNotGood calls $0.10
thenielsen calls $0.05
chocomelz checks
*** FLOP *** [4h Kc Js]
thenielsen checks
chocomelz checks
aliengenius checks
DrugsNotGood checks
*** TURN *** [4h Kc Js] [5h]
thenielsen bets $0.30
chocomelz folds
aliengenius has 15 seconds left to act
aliengenius calls $0.30
DrugsNotGood folds
*** RIVER *** [4h Kc Js 5h] [Th]
thenielsen bets $0.40
aliengenius raises to $1.40
thenielsen calls $1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
aliengenius shows [7d 6d] King Jack high
thenielsen shows [8h 6h] a flush, Ten high
thenielsen wins the pot ($3.45) with a flush, Ten high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $3.80 | Rake $0.35
Board: [4h Kc Js 5h Th]
Seat 1: chocomelz (big blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 2: aliengenius showed [7d 6d] and lost with King Jack high
Seat 3: Fradiboy666 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: ZenPirate didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: blow up44 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: DrugsNotGood folded on the Turn
Seat 7: Josh1313 (button) is sitting out
Seat 8: thenielsen (small blind) showed [8h 6h] and won ($3.45) with a flush, Ten high
Seat 9: MrBubinho is sitting out

 

[Deathwish238]

In ring games I don't raise more than 2-3x the BB usually just so the pot isn't huge after the flop. That way if I'm making 2/3rd the pot Cbets(that I like to do...) I don't have to risk as much with A or K high.

I don't know about 25nl (I've had some nasty experiences there) but you're definitely right about $5nl. I gotta disagree with you about short/long. The reason being that since we're going to be playing so tight, we kinda need the extra three opponents so that there''s a better chance we'll get some action on our bigger hands.

Well I don't play too tight. Generally speaking I'm playing A3s, K7s, Q8s, Suited over 8, unsuited over 10, and pocket 8s or better. VP$IP around 20%. Short handed most of my opponents are even looser and love to see the flop hoping to just catch system and will then instantly fold when I cbet and they have nothing.


I haven't played this way at 25nl though but it's been quite effective at 5nl.

 

[aliengenius]

I hate poker.

FullTiltPoker Game #5527027161: Table Rock Springs - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:34:03 ET - 2008/03/06
Seat 1: FunkyMonkey69 ($23.55)
Seat 2: 1adi1 ($0), is sitting out
Seat 3: evienneau ($7)
Seat 4: Scott Hall AZ ($8.65)
Seat 5: aliengenius ($9.90)
Seat 6: AAdm66 ($1.85)
Seat 7: Aussie4beer ($6.90)
Seat 8: Poloten4ik ($10), is sitting out
Seat 9: coloniaruben ($15.60)
evienneau posts the small blind of $0.05
Scott Hall AZ posts the big blind of $0.10
1adi1: ah nochn deutscher hi
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aliengenius [Qs Ah]
aliengenius calls $0.10
AAdm66 folds
Aussie4beer folds
coloniaruben calls $0.10
FunkyMonkey69 folds
evienneau folds
1adi1: tja dann isses ja halb so schlimm
coloniaruben: natürlich
Aussie4beer: i got rather lucky on the turn
Scott Hall AZ has 15 seconds left to act
coloniaruben: woher kommse?
Scott Hall AZ raises to $0.45
1adi1: aus baden würtemberg
aliengenius calls $0.35
coloniaruben folds
*** FLOP *** [As Jc 5d]
Scott Hall AZ bets $1.05
1adi1: bei heidelberg
1adi1: un du
aliengenius has 15 seconds left to act
aliengenius calls $1.05
*** TURN *** [As Jc 5d] [Qd]
Scott Hall AZ bets $3.15
coloniaruben: köln wiemein name verrät
aliengenius raises to $6.30
Scott Hall AZ raises to $7.15, and is all in
aliengenius calls $0.85
Scott Hall AZ shows [Qh Qc]
aliengenius shows [Qs Ah]
*** RIVER *** [As Jc 5d Qd] [8s]
Scott Hall AZ shows three of a kind, Queens
aliengenius shows two pair, Aces and Queens
Scott Hall AZ wins the pot ($15.75) with three of a kind, Queens
aliengenius: omg
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $17.45 | Rake $1.70
Board: [As Jc 5d Qd 8s]
Seat 1: FunkyMonkey69 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: 1adi1 (button) is sitting out
Seat 3: evienneau (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Scott Hall AZ (big blind) showed [Qh Qc] and won ($15.75) with three of a kind, Queens
Seat 5: aliengenius showed [Qs Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Queens
Seat 6: AAdm66 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Aussie4beer didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: Poloten4ik is sitting out
Seat 9: coloniaruben folded before the Flop


FullTiltPoker Game #5523141976: Table Homestretch - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 9:19:18 ET - 2008/03/06
Seat 1: Yvi3112 ($9.75)
Seat 2: Foffo ($12.55)
Seat 3: Freyzer ($5.80)
Seat 4: Ligareaux ($14.95)
Seat 5: Trueden2 ($4)
Seat 6: mrmrsbenny ($4.45)
Seat 7: rugfiend ($14.95)
Seat 8: jange1904 ($10.15)
Seat 9: aliengenius ($9.90)
jange1904 posts the small blind of $0.05
aliengenius posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to aliengenius [Qd Kc]
Yvi3112 calls $0.10
Foffo folds
Freyzer folds
Ligareaux folds
Trueden2 folds
mrmrsbenny folds
rugfiend calls $0.10
jange1904 folds
aliengenius checks
*** FLOP *** [8c Qc 4h]
aliengenius bets $0.35
Yvi3112 folds
rugfiend raises to $0.70
aliengenius calls $0.35
*** TURN *** [8c Qc 4h] [Kd]
aliengenius checks
rugfiend has 15 seconds left to act
rugfiend bets $1
aliengenius raises to $9.10, and is all in
rugfiend calls $8.10
aliengenius shows [Qd Kc]
rugfiend shows [Ks Kh]
*** RIVER *** [8c Qc 4h Kd] [6c]
aliengenius shows two pair, Kings and Queens
rugfiend shows three of a kind, Kings
rugfiend wins the pot ($18) with three of a kind, Kings
aliengenius adds $10
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $19.95 | Rake $1.95
Board: [8c Qc 4h Kd 6c]
Seat 1: Yvi3112 folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Foffo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Freyzer didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Ligareaux didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Trueden2 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: mrmrsbenny didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: rugfiend (button) showed [Ks Kh] and won ($18) with three of a kind, Kings
Seat 8: jange1904 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: aliengenius (big blind) showed [Qd Kc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Queens

 

[Deathwish238]

Here's what I'm noticing...you're betting big.

If the pot is $1 and you flop top pair...I'ld bet $0.65 - $0.70, not $1. Why reraise all in? It doesn't give you any information that you can then react to. Simply betting out would have shown that you have something. Plus, you want him to call...not to fold given your information at the time. I'ld have bet 2/3rd the pot again. If he's a decent player he would have just called and reraised all in on the river where you may or may not have thought he tripped or hit a straight.

A bit of bad luck isn't helping you...but being super aggressive doesn't help either. This isn't a tournament where what you did would have been normalcy.

 

[aliengenius]

I guess I don't understand how you stack someone then. I am not folding here, and expect to get called by QJo, etc.

 

[Four Dogs]

I don't like the shove either AG. I agree, your not folding but the RR otf should be enough to slow you down. Some degree pot size control was in order here. The KK was a little hard to put him on considering the UTG limp, but disguising a strong hand isn't unheard of. Not unlike the previous hand where you did the same w/AQ.

I guess I don't understand how you stack someone then.

Like this.

Seat 7: rugfiend (button) showed [Ks Kh] and won ($18) with three of a kind, Kings

 

[ColoradoAvsFan]

Those are some pretty bad losses, AG. I have only been playing about a year, but those hands you posted above are truly betting hands. No matter what you bet, you would have been all-in on the river anyway. The best thing to do here is to look at it from the other guys perspective. He beat a good hand with a great hand. You had good, solid hands.

You previously wrote you folded a QQ pf for reason. If anything is to be learned here, is to temper your bet so you can get a read. Obviously your competition isn't going to fold, and may just call any of your bets UNLESS you bet down at the turn. Then you MAY get a feel for the strength of their hand. Even so, my outcome at this table would have been the same as yours.

I rarely get beat like this at PS or bodog for some reason, only at FTP.

May the poker gods smile upon your stack!!

 

[Rushstreet]

Its hard to beat a game where its a bunch of calling stations unless you are extrmely patient IMO.

 

[bustme]

You cant play LAG on most of the tables on 10 NL...

My advice is that you find tables who are tight where you can bully around. ( avoid the small stakes, even if they have tight stats they are more donky than full stacks)

 

[tenbob]

Any chance of a PokerEV graph AG ? Just to see if you actually suck or if your just running bad.

Still no HA threads either.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

the problem with pokerev is is doesn't take coolers into account. a lot of these hands posted seem to be coolers, so wile i wouldn't be surprised to see a 'running around about expectancy' graph, it's not necessarily representative of suckage without a pretty huge sample size.

that said, graph would be nice.

 

[vanquish]

call button is your friend