Fish schooling (as in similar to shoaling)

[SyKoChiller]

Wish I had some advice for you here but I don't. Just wanted to mention a thread I saw here a couple months back; I don't recall the exact site but it basically said that the site in question was rating or categorizing players according to their style and habits, then selectively displaying open tables to them in an effort to corral certain types of players together in an effort to drive up the amount of rake generated off each table per hour.
Maybe something similar is happening here? I've often wondered about this lately since I've been suffering at lower levels myself. Also it seems to go hand in hand that I withdraw from a given site then suffer a few weeks of horrid hands and suckouts. It takes everything just to stay even in those weeks.

 

[xdeucesx]

there is alot of fuss going on lately about 5 NL. I made a thread not too long ago asking if 5NL is harder than 10NL.

Ipersonally believe it is no matter what anyone says due to the fact that that is what my own experience tells me. Maybe for others 5NL is easier. for me its not.

Imade more money in 10NL than i ever could dream of at 5NL where i was breakeven at best.

These little calling station,fishy,bad calling donks at 5 NL are unbeatable. Noone can beat this limit.

Id be interested in seeing a screenshot of a 5NL winner over a large amount of hands played. like more than 15bb/100,if its that easy.

confirmed no money at 5nl, everyone's solid

 

[Trimming1]

I prefer tighter tables

As you can force them to either change their stratagies and make them make looser calls then attack. That's what i do in live cash games and it works.:smokin:

 

[TeUnit]

tight to the left loose to the right i think is the best

 

[Cafeman]

These little calling station,fishy,bad calling donks at 5 NL are unbeatable. Noone can beat this limit.

Are you here trolling mate, or just a bit weak in the head? Serious question.

 

[groggy44]

Just my opinion but I think that you are trying to make moves on calling stations. Don't bother. Just play abc poker. You know they aren't going to fold. Grab some AA KK or QQ and take them to value town. Same thing with AK AQ and even KQ. Play suited connectors and when you hit the flop hard, punish these fish. just because you see ivey shove all in with 25o, doesn't mean you should. Play more than one table if trying to fight off boredom. By all means don't try and get tricky with them. Play solid abc poker and punish them. Once they start respecting your post flop bets, then c-bet sparingly but mainly just play what I call catch and smash poker. Catch a great hand and smash'em to bits.

 

[RodneyC86]

Either you are running bad, or you have strong sense of entitlement to the pot when you hit tptk and will not fold like what the baluga theorem says you should when reraised.

When a player obviously plays unbalanced like fishes with their calls, there's no way they are unexploitable.

More Variance is there yes, it's the nature of their plays style, they call with improper odds and gamble a lot, and it does get paid off fairly often. Do you know that on the flop, your tptk has a 20 percent chance of being eventually busted by a hand that hit 2nd or 3rd pair on the pot by the river. Your edge is a lot smaller than you think, but it's definitely there.

 

[RodneyC86]

Btw, your thread pretty much says calling is the nuts which has been accepted as the most difficult action to take profitably preriver for the longest time.

They are NOT impossible. Frustrating at times yes because they can show up with 42o and hammer you with a straight but it is definitely not impossible.

 

[LD1977]

Playing OOP against many of them (lets say if I am in MP) is insanely hard even 1 on 1 since some of them autobet small (1/4 to 1/3 of pot usually) if checked to and pretty much always call when bet into (especially turn is called almost always). Only on the river they jam with the nuts, otherwise they just call unless they really missed whatever they chased.

Others overbet every check. In either case they are consistent as far as sizing goes.

As for turn raises, it depends on the player but yes TP is not great holding usually.

 

[vinylspiros]

Are you here trolling mate, or just a bit weak in the head? Serious question.

i find your post to be rather rude so i wont reply. lets agree to disagree.

 

[vinylspiros]

confirmed no money at 5nl, everyone's solid

yep. no money there.

 

[Jackle43]

These limits are beatable if you play solid and stop leaking to fish. And yes we want to play as many fish as possible at every waking second. E.g If a fish won't fold to cbets then don't c bet with air and when you hit value town them. Easy game and learn to exploit

 

[Jackle43]

yep. no money there.

Yeah all the easy money is at 200nl, 5nl is so solid....

 

[benevg]

i find your post to be rather rude so i wont reply. lets agree to disagree.

well, we could all agree to disagree with you, if you would only stop being so loud about your wrong opinion

 

[Cafeman]

i find your post to be rather rude so i wont reply. lets agree to disagree.

I guess you weren't trolling then...

 

[acky100]

just. wow. everywhere.

 

[tenbob]

just. wow. everywhere.

QFT

 

[honeycrush]

Of course micro stakes are beatable but I still agree with OP's original point. It is much easier to play on a table with TAG/NITs and just one or two fish than it is to play on a table full of fish and maniacs. When you have 3 or 4 players calling your PF raises (no matter how big you make them) it is very easy for one of them to suck out on you and get weird 2 pairs against your TPTK or full houses/flushes to beat your 2 pairs and sets as they will not fold to your value bets.

 

[RodneyC86]

Of course micro stakes are beatable but I still agree with OP's original point. It is much easier to play on a table with TAG/NITs and just one or two fish than it is to play on a table full of fish and maniacs. When you have 3 or 4 players calling your PF raises (no matter how big you make them) it is very easy for one of them to suck out on you and get weird 2 pairs against your TPTK or full houses/flushes to beat your 2 pairs and sets as they will not fold to your value bets.

This is the point when running good will make you insanely rich compared to running equally good on a TAGgier table.

Point is, if you play good hands, you don't need to run as hard as your competition and when you do get on a heater, you will literally murder everyone and take all their money they are so willingly going to give you.

 

[honeycrush]

This is the point when running good will make you insanely rich compared to running equally good on a TAGgier table.

Point is, if you play good hands, you don't need to run as hard as your competition and when you do get on a heater, you will literally murder everyone and take all their money they are so willingly going to give you.

Yes, that's true. But if you're running bad it can also mean HUGE losses. It happened to me twice recently in the same session. I lost a full house to quads and then a full house to a bigger full house in the same session to fish that were playing with VPIPs of 60+.

 

[Cafeman]

Being the fine upstanding honest CC member that I am, I have just put my money where my mouth is... watch this space lol

 

[AugustWest]

Which site Cafe? pokerstars? Totally different than any US facing site.........

 

[hobonc]

Calling stations, especially the ATC variety, are to hard to easily beat. They aren't as trappable as an agro and their persistance can cause variance.

At this level, there are likely multiple culprits at the table as you mentioned. Thus, the act of raising to isolate is diminished. Why increase the pot, simply because of table position (as opposed to hand strength), when you know it will only give the fish more reason to draw. Once you've done that, c-betting can be like pouring gas on a fire.

Play your strong hands hard pre.....make them pay to see that flop.

On dry boards, don't be afraid to check behind. Mix your play here, c-bet air and/or check behind when a strong hand hits. Hands with CS's tend to see a lot of showdowns. Use the hands that were showndown to your advantage.

As Matt said, always value bet your strong hands. In the long run this has to be +EV.

 

[Cafeman]

Which site Cafe? PokerStars? Totally different than any US facing site.........

Well, LD plays FTP and Vinyl plays Stars. But tbh, seriously, it's 5NL... and I've not noticed much of a difference between Stars and ipoker. You play the players, hand read, all that, you know, play poker. If they're nits, they'll fold more sorta thing. How many different ways can we spell it out?

 

[ScottishMatt]

Well, LD plays FTP and Vinyl plays Stars. But tbh, seriously, it's 5NL... and I've not noticed much of a difference between Stars and ipoker. You play the players, hand read, all that, you know, play poker. If they're nits, they'll fold more sorta thing. How many different ways can we spell it out?

We could try actually spelling it I suppose?