Should I call 2 shoves with AKs in the early stages of tourny?

[Lheticus]

"I've seen the psychos call with middle pair. SNAP call with middle pair even I think. People don't GET scared of being eliminated early."

If this is the case then what are you complaining about? If you can't beat players that you know will "snap call with middle pair" then I don't know what to tell you.

If I don't HIT the middle pair, I'm not beating someone who is willing to snap call with middle pair when they hit it. As in, it's impossible to force people like that out when I have say an AK that doesn't hit the board. "Beating" people like that comes down to luck, not skill.

 

[11012015]

No it should not.

 

[johnsonrod]

Anyway I think it comes down to two different approaches and they both have their merits. If your goal is to survive and hope for better spots later and rely on your skill to out play your opponents with a short stack,then it's fine to fold here.
If your goal is to go deep and win and have no fear of busting out early so that you can use your big stack to your advantage from start to finish, then it's fine to call here.
But what I do know is that tourney poker has changed over the last 10 to 15 yrs and the old slow and steady strategy is being left behind. it's indisputable.

Probably enough said about this

 

[adamchikas]

Depends on the speed and buy in. In deep stacks it is a pretty easy fold imo. Have seen pros folding AK pretty easily at times.

 

[Marcwantstowin]

Say hero(80BB) is OTB. Villain1(30BB) shoves UTG and Villain2(90BB) shoves UTG+2. Should I call?

I'm kinda a newby so go easy on me haha

Hey nice to hear from you Angrybanana..............The answer is definately NO NO NO. I used to think like you that AK is a good hand and can beat almost everything, but it doesn't. Imagine the Villian1 has AQ and villian2 has A10. Okay who do you think is favourite pre-flop? You ? Slighty yes. However, is it worth putting your tournament life on the line? The chances of an Ace on the flop, turn or river are remote, as three are out. However, you also have the King so looks good as the odds of the king appearing are as much as the 10 or Queen. All good so far, The question you should ask yourself is how much do I know about the villians? If not much, then what would it take you to raise all-in before the flop? What would it take for you to call 1 all-in before the flop. I could go on forever, and you will find a lot more information on this site and a lot of helpful people and good standard of players. There is even some sub-groups on here that will help you discuss your hands and experiences, with a view to improving your play.........gl and hope to hear your views in the future............

As a footnote I would say you should read some books such as Moorman on Poker or Harrington on holdem. These I think are the easyist to understand and go into "how a pro" thinks when playing a hand.

 

[TeUnit]

i dont like a call there, think that deep there are plenty of opportunities to get your money in better

 

[Giveitago]

Almost never, especially with no information on opponents. No point in having to hit a card against 2 other people (assuming one has pocket pair) when your outs could already be taken away if a guy has AQ KQ or even another AK. It also doesn't make sense since you have to worry about AA/KK. Not to mention you have to dodge out up to 12 outs if there are no shared cards and you do have the best hand which isn't very often. It isn't a great spot to be. That said, I'd consider it in a free roll or very low buy in tourney, I guess.

 

[socrastot]

You could really go either way with this one. I don't think it's bad to call this in a tourney. It's a coin-flip, and you can't afford to avoid coin flips in tournaments. But then again, in the early stages with 80bb, it's not a bad idea to wait for something better. You'd really need to get a good read on the 90bb utg+2 villain. Do you think your opponent shoved to eliminate competition against a weak opponent? If so it's probably a good call.

In cash games, bad call. odds are slightly against you in a cash game and calling with odds slightly against you adds up in the long run.

Edit: People are scared of playing AK because they think it wins them small pots and loses them big pots. This is only true if you are a bad post-flop player. In your situation, they AK "curse" is irrelevant, because your only decision to make is made preflop.

 

[MAX101]

I'd really have no problem folding, it's not a made hand, pocket 2's will take this hand down, if two hands are shoving, I'd just get out of the way, someone is going down ,just not my chips, but about the only time I would shove is if I had 2 or 3 bb's left then it's worth the risk,but it still would be a blind shot in the dark !!!

 

[Xmaster]

Just muck the hand, save your chips and wait for a better spot.

 

[PokerFunKid]

I fold. You only have ace high. Especialy if you have the edge on the field it is a easy fold. I don't really want to flip and for sure don't want to be up against AA/KK.

@limpnfold88 it happens prety often. Mostly fish but some regs (and fish) openshove AA early stage. I also openshove AA for over 100 bigs in the first 2 levels of a MTT. Unless i'm sitting at a sicko table. But for me, in a early stage of a tournament a openshove almost always mean aces. Its a new hype and more players are using it now. How ever, with 30 bigs i am not openshoving 30 bigs.

 

[PokerFunKid]

I fold. You only have ace high. Especialy if you have the edge on the field it is a easy fold. I don't really want to flip and for sure don't want to be up against AA/KK.

@limpnfold88 it happens prety often. Mostly fish but some regs (and fish) openshove AA early stage. I also openshove AA for over 100 bigs in the first 2 levels of a MTT. Unless i'm sitting at a sicko table. But for me, in a early stage of a tournament a openshove almost always mean aces. Its a new hype and more players are using it now. How ever, with 30 bigs i am not openshoving 30 bigs.

 

[Boyle mrunson]

Just muck the hand, save your chips and wait for a better spot.

I agree. 80BB is just too much to call off w AK. 30 ok. 80 too much...However, if you don't think you have an edge on the field, flipping isn't horrible. But if you don't have an edge on the field, you should find lower games where you do have an edge....

 

[Tgen]

depend on villains but usually dont call.

 

[Boyle mrunson]

How is it a drawing hand when u have the nuts when you flop top pair? Lol

Because A) you're only hitting your "draw" on the flop roughly 1/3rd of the time. That means you miss more often then not.
B) top pair top kicker is not the nuts.

 

[Lheticus]

top pair top kicker is not the nuts.

I am so sigging that.

 

[Karozi615]

How is it a drawing hand when u have the nuts when you flop top pair? Lol

How is AK a drawing hand? I can't tell if your being serious or nut, but AK is a drawing hand. It is the best possible drawing hand preflop, but it is nothing but a drawing hand.

AK is nice under certain circumstances. We have AA and KK blockers. We have hand that has reasonable equity against any non AA/KK hand.

However, I don't think you should be jamming flatting a 90 big blind 3bet in a tournament. Player 1's shove was for 30 BB's, so its a pretty thin spot even if you are up against a hand like QQ JJ.

I just see no reason to put our money in this deep with the worst hand against a player who has shown strength.

Now, a 3bet shove could be interpreted as more weak than a flat, but at low level tournaments those concepts don't even come into play.

The single most important variable in a MTT is survival, and average players who want to shove all of their chips in with AK don't usually do that. If you want to win a lot of tournaments start winning hands without showdown and outplaying people. I literally cringe when I have to put my chips at risk, even if I have AK in the BB with 19 big blinds in an unraised pot - It just doesn't feel good because if I get called my tournament life is at risk.

 

[Lostmyhouse]

Two typical donks goes all in the first hands in a tournament and you have AK, clear push.
Otherwise fold.

 

[rock0001]

i would probably call most of the times on most freerolls ( unless its the big bang or some special freeroll with very good prices) and lower buy in tournaments/sng specially on turbo tournaments and fold in medium and high buy in tournaments/sng.

 

[JohnCPoker17]

Against two shoves and early phase, definitely fold.

After all, AK is still a drawing hand.

+1
I'd definitely fold in this position. Unless in a turbo SnG or some high turbo/hyper turbo tourneys. But in a regular turbo tourney/ or regular blinds tournament, it's an easy fold for me. Just not getting the risk vs. reward needed, plus it's just too easy to be advantageous, and chip up based on pushing players with a softer image, than it is to always have the hand. Would hate to play hand dependant poker throughout a whole tournament. Personally that is.

 

[Biscleta]

It depends of the tournment you are playing...if you are on a low tournment buy in your probably facing player who go all in more easily and that don´t what to wait for those big games...with AK you will be on a good position to make call to these shoves, but wou also need to see your opponents behaviour...in this situation i think you just need to be preocupated with the second player who shoves...i dont believe that with cards like AA or KK anyone will going directly all in, the second player can have AA or KK but i also can have QQ AQ JJ and robably even a smallest pair...if that happens you have some chances to win...so i would call

 

[Lheticus]

i would probably call most of the times on most freerolls ( unless its the big bang or some special freeroll with very good prices) and lower buy in tournaments/sng specially on turbo tournaments and fold in medium and high buy in tournaments/sng.

Freerolls is a good point. In regularly held public freerolls such as the "on demand" on ACR, I'd be shoving with AK anyway. If I bust, I can get in another one in around an hour, so there are the least reasons to fold out of virtually any possible tournament.

 

[Four Dogs]

Say hero(80BB) is OTB. Villain1(30BB) shoves UTG and Villain2(90BB) shoves UTG+2. Should I call?

I'm kinda a newby so go easy on me haha

No, I wouldn't call off 100bb with AK

 

[najisami]

I would definitely wait for a better spot. A flip that early is not really worth it ! Let alone if you are dominated...

 

[sunshine0410]

I would also fold this. It's not worth to risk all chips in these situations.