***September SNG Thread***

[WiZZiM]

Im on a 500 game breakeven stretch at the moment, it's funny how poker works. a while ago i thought i was playing crap, and i was winning, now, i think im playing good, and im losing...

Had a couple of funny spots yesterday, For the first time ever that i can remember, we made it ITM at 15/30 on stars! Played one hand for the whole tournament and got a third...


This is a spot i consider super standard, without analysing it in SNG wiz, what would you guys do? call or fold?
The SB is a multitabling reg, and one of the better one's at my level, im not going to say he is really good or anything, but he knows to shove wide on tight regs blinds (me) my HUD gives me steal stats from the SB at 65% over 200 hands. And what approximate range would you be calling here with?


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, 3.4 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t1725)
Hero (BB) (t3960)
UTG (t1410)
MP (t3230)
CO (t3410)
Button (t1265)

Hero's M: 8.80

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, 6

4 folds, SB bets t1700 (All-In), Hero ??

 

[arahel_jazz]

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, 6

4 folds, SB bets t1700 (All-In), Hero ??

I'm insta-folding...

 

[cjatud2012]

Haven't run it through SNGWiz yet, but I'm thinking you would call here just based on what I've seen from your HH's. If he's shoving ~65% here, probably more, I think A6o is good enough against his range. We're 6-handed, so while there's still ICM tax it's not as great as it would be on the bubble. Also, we're the big stack which has some additional benefits: we don't risk as much equity as we would if we were shorter stacked, we can build a giant stack to dominate the approaching bubble, we can establish a blind-defensive image (sort of), etc. In game I'd probably personally fold, but I think I can see you calling this and it being profitable.

 

[cjatud2012]

okay just ran it through Wiz, it does suggest a call, it actually shows we're calling pretty wide if he's shoving ~65%. Obviously now that I've looked at it, it'd be cheating to assign a calling range I think of zerosum's pivot points for a spot like this though, obv. our villain is not a standard bad villain like the one he describes in his video, but it's probably safe to call with the same range we'd call a 5bb push from a bad player. So that'd mean any pair, any ace, and most good suited broadways.

 

[dg1267]

Wow, I was gonna say instafold as well. But I'm tight too, so would be tough for me.

 

[WiZZiM]

*Yeah i mean the few things we have going for us are, we have him covered, so if we call and lose we still have significant equity in the tournament. If we call and win, our equity jumps dramatically.

*His range is wide, and our Ax is well ahead of that range.

*This is the stage of the tournament where we should be taking risks to try and accumulate more equity

I don't think this guy was neccesarily shoving exactly 65%, something like 55-60 would be about right, so i wouldnt neccesarily call with any pair and hands like 109s and stuff like that, in spots like these against a loose range i much prefer high card strength vs pair strength. When you think about it, pairs like 22/33 are almost always going to be flipping. Whereas a hand like K5s is going to be 60/40 favourites a lot of the time, and it could even dominate your opponant in some cases, where small pairs will not.
So yeah, weighing all those things up, i feel it's a pretty stock standard call. And the other thing for future play vs these guys is that by folding we are letting him make +EV shoves on us. By calling down with appropriate ranges, we actually make his wide shoving range unprofitable, thus, we should be theoretically winning money. Anyways i thought it would be interesting to get some ideas as to what you guys think of calling all in shoves.


What would be interesting is actually setting stack sizes so that the SB villain has us covered, i still think it will be close to a call, but it should drop our EV by quite a bit, wouldnt even suprise me if it's neutral or losing equity.

 

[Logan2]

Was looking Zerosum videos about calling ranges in BB vs sb and Btn, like cj mention think this a call there.

You have him cover, so even if lose will have 10bb left, he is pushing from sb to your bb with around 8bb, , also maybe he is not bad but he have a wide range, so range to call could be around A9+ or A7s+ , 55+ but because you will not be busted could go little more to A6, i probably will not call lower than that even if is ok, if was 5bb then any AX.

Dg already see those videos and comment was good, surprise he fold here (but was in june so probably already forget lol)

first video is slow, but others are good , short 9 min. videos, check it out, probably most already see it, but if not is worthy.

https://www.cardschat.com/f53/zerosum79-discusses-abcs-playing-sngs-178652/#post1559944

 

[WiZZiM]

Yeah it's a good video series actually. Normally i hate the whole teaching video scene. Most of them are just pro's playing tables and babbling about decisions, which helps to a point sure. But his video covers everything a novice player needs to know to start off playing SNG's. If i had something like this when i first started, it would have saved me a years worth of staying up late at night studying push/fold spots which i have learnt isn't a very productive way to learn. Almost impossible. So falling back to a default set of ranges is great. I pretty much have all the PBJ ranges imprinted in my brain, i was suprised how close i was to the ranges that the PBJ gave me, so i don't tend to use it very much.

The main thing those videos helped me realise is that there are far better ways than spending countless hours reviewing spots hand by hand. Using the technology that is out there is making reviewing much simpler, quicker, and easier than ever before. Back when i first started, when i hadnt even heard of any poker related sites, i was playing lets say 2 hours, then reviewing for 2 hours, it went like that for 6 months, then i dropped back the review ratio to 2:1 play:review. In any case, i don't want to say it's a waste of time, but there are much quicker and less time consuming ways of doing it.

 

[cardplayer52]

i'm calling about 33% but i guess that is too tight.

 

[dg1267]

Was looking Zerosum videos about calling ranges in BB vs sb and Btn, like cj mention think this a call there.

You have him cover, so even if lose will have 10bb left, he is pushing from sb to your bb with around 8bb, , also maybe he is not bad but he have a wide range, so range to call could be around A9+ or A7s+ , 55+ but because you will not be busted could go little more to A6, i probably will not call lower than that even if is ok, if was 5bb then any AX.

Dg already see those videos and comment was good, surprise he fold here (but was in june so probably already forget lol)

first video is slow, but others are good , short 9 min. videos, check it out, probably most already see it, but if not is worthy.

https://www.cardschat.com/f53/zerosum79-discusses-abcs-playing-sngs-178652/#post1559944

Are you picking on me?

 

[OzExorcist]

This is a spot i consider super standard, without analysing it in SNG wiz, what would you guys do? call or fold?
The SB is a multitabling reg, and one of the better one's at my level, im not going to say he is really good or anything, but he knows to shove wide on tight regs blinds (me) my HUD gives me steal stats from the SB at 65% over 200 hands. And what approximate range would you be calling here with?

*walks in late*

With that read I call, though A6 would getting towards the bottom of the range. Without doing any math (which I hate doing and suck at anyway) and promising I haven't looked at the screenshots above, I probably call with 55+ / A5+ / KQ.

I don't play at Stars and Full Tilt doesn't have antes in its structure so I'm not used to factoring that into my decision but I'm thinking it just means we're playing like we're slightly shorter than we really are. The fact blinds go up in really steep increments on Stars (it skips to 200-400 or something crazy like that next level, right?) would make me more inclined to call too. And obviously the fact that we'll still have a reasonable stack if we call and lose (vs a huge one if we call and win) factors into my decision as well.

 

[cjatud2012]

Yeah I really don't like those smaller pairs, you're either flipping or way behind, whereas with big cards, you're either flipping or possibly dominating. In game I'd probably call as low as 66 and A9+, which is obv too tight. Of course it's all villain dependent too, against a weaker player that's probably a good/decent range.

 

[OzExorcist]

Yeah that's basically my thinking too. Interesting to see how much tighter my calling range was compared to what the calculator recommends. I've done a bunch of work trying to improve my shoving ranges, calling ranges will be the next thing that needs attention obviously.

 

[Debi]

Maybe I should take more breaks from sng's to play loads of mtt's lol. I have crushed 3-4 sets in a row.

Time to try for some more!

On the A6 hand - I would have a very hard time folding any A to a less than 6bb shove from the sb there.

 

[gallopingael]

have you tried the hayguys xbox controller thing. i thought you were using it but not sure. it's supposed to take care of all of those focus stealing issues like the one when you get KO'ed from a game. i just watched a video on CR where sippin_cris uses it it seems solid. and him using it makes me think its worth it if you grind stars.

I <3 hjalper

 

[WiZZiM]

Well might be a bit late, but i finally achieved a goal of mine. I set out to get on a sharkscope leaderboard. Why? not sure. But i've played a ton of these damn micro sng's, so i can finally move on to greener pastures.

 

[dg1267]

Congrats Wizzim! And that's the leaderboard to be on if you're gonna make one. Well done.

 

[cjatud2012]

Very nice dude, we're proud of ya. Here's hoping you continue to rub off on the rest of us, lol.

 

[cjatud2012]

I've played exactly 0 STT's so far this month, lol, school and family stuff really getting in the way. Might play 2 or 3 sets tonight but that remains to be seen.

Also, watching wsop atm, I really dislike the "Wild Card" segments. Does anyone really hand-read the way Norman Chad does? "Scotty Nguyen could have anything here... I put him on 87 of diamonds." Seriously?

 

[OzExorcist]

Also, watching WSOP atm, I really dislike the "Wild Card" segments. Does anyone really hand-read the way Norman Chad does? "Scotty Nguyen could have anything here... I put him on 87 of diamonds." Seriously?

I'm sure even he doesn't - it's just an another excuse for the standard Lon and Norm "Norm is crap at poker and never gets anything right" schtick.

 

[cjatud2012]

results oriented question itt?

Full Tilt - $11+$1|50/100 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: 1,825.00
SB: 1,065.00
Hero (BB): 1,845.00
UTG: 1,360.00
UTG+1: 2,880.00
MP: 2,085.00
CO: 2,440.00

SB posts SB 50.00, Hero posts BB 100.00

Pre Flop: (150.00) Hero has K:diamond: T:diamond:

fold, fold, MP calls 100.00, CO calls 100.00, fold, SB calls 50.00, Hero checks

Flop: (400.00, 4 players) Q:diamond: J:diamond: 5:diamond:
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets 300.00, fold, Hero calls 300.00, fold

Turn: (1000.00, 2 players) Q:spade:
Hero bets 400.00, CO calls 400.00

River: (1800.00, 2 players) Q:heart:
Hero bets 1,045.00 and is all-in, CO calls 1,045.00

Hero shows K:diamond: T:diamond: (Flush, King High)
CO shows T:heart: Q:club: (Four of a Kind, Queens)
CO wins 3,890.00

 

[cardplayer52]

i think you can bet out or raise the flop a little. even though it suited there are tons of hands that hit that flop hard. even flush and str8 draws call or get allin on this flop a ton. when there are 2 broadway cards on the flop go ahead and bet out with your monsters. after the turn i'm check/calling. the Q sort of sucks for our hand as it is lickly a scare card for the villian. i still think i check/call the river as not many worse hands call and doubfull he checks back a Q on the river. give the missed draws a chance to bluff.

 

[dg1267]

Man, I've been on a roller coaster the last couple of days. Yesterday I couldn't seem to catch a break anywhere and today it seems like I hitting everything I take a shot at. I'm up about 10 buy ins so that's good, but would love to see some good, solid winning.

 

[cardplayer52]

I can relate to the rollercoaster. This is my graph for all my $11 games. I'm just happy it's not going staight down. But man this is fustrating. I know I got leaks but really have no idea in what area really.

 

[cjatud2012]

In retrospect I think I agree about the flop and turn plays, however I think check/folding the river would be better than check/call, I guess he could have Ad but other than that there's really nothing he's bluffing with, plus with my chip stack I could be left in pretty bad shape if I check/called.

also, roller coasters... weeeeeee