Play To Win Or To Get ITM?

fishfood80

fishfood80

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It's actually funny you mention that because I was just in a tourney on Betonline. It was the money bubble and I had Queens. It folded to me on the button and only having to worry about the blinds I forgot my money bubble rule and shoved. The big blind called with ace king off and hammered the ace on the river. It just reinforced my rule to to wait for that stuff (especially online haha). I mean I possibly shot myself in the foot on a 200+ dollay money bubble.
 
crimsonblur

crimsonblur

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Your goal is to make as much money possible depending on the situation, position and chip stacks play heavily into action at the table.
 
Flight777sem

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That hurts but sometimes we gotta make discipline lay downs and fold. I mean no need to risk your tournament life on bubble. You’ll have plently of change to play for a win, if you had premium hand than you gotta play but make pot control if you can. If I got AA KK QQ type of hands I’d play otherwise I’d not risk it.
 
S

sibird

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Getting in the money is the first thing. Then to final table and then to the top. Sometimes when you found that you don't have enough chips, just forget about the final table and the top. Just play to be in the money. All efforts need to be directed to-wards that goal.

Needless to mention that you might be at risk of going out. So, in order to stay, you need to take more chances with hands with which you usually don't play. You succeed or not, that is another question but you need to try. You can't die without doing nothing.
 
G

gwj63

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hi bubbles

I saw u
talk about once then let it bne.
I still say no, there isn't one.
and you thank yours daily.
good job and more power to you.
why'd ya lie about kids?
and why didn't you say something ? at the station?
 
K

kkonicke

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I personally always play to win, I don't concern myself with the bubble except as an opportunity to take advantage of those who tighten up. Then again, I rarely play above a proper bankroll management and operate in micro stakes. Getting that 1 or 2 dollar payout is nice, but I'd rather press and try to give myself a better chance at final table money.

A friend of mine was playing hand for hand in a live tournament with a $300 buyin. The overwhelming chip leader at the table was literally raising allin every hand without looking, and my friend folded JJ to him rather than risk bubbling. Even in a buyin that big, I can't see myself folding JJ to a random hand. The odds of the guy even having an over are pretty bad, JJ has to be at least 2 to 1 against a random hand...probably better. I tried explaining it to him, but he simply disagreed and enjoyed his $470 after busting out a couple hands after the bubble burst.
 
radartodd69

radartodd69

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The goal should be to go for the win. Sometimes fate gets in the way of that but ultimately over time you will get to more final tables by playing your hands the way you should. No matter what point of the game your in.
 
A

adueno81

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play to win

Just made a move on the bubble and lost, hurts but I was ahead in the hand and would probably do it again. Wondering if this is the right strategy in the long run?
I actually do play to win and won the first tournament I played on here but its not consistant and theres too many donks and fishes in tournaments.
 
oneybiggs

oneybiggs

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the crunch factor for me is that its online,otherwise i would play to win in later stages of tourneys.online can be manipulated in so many ways and as ive said upteen times,for me at least..every half decent win seems to be followed by a completely unnatural series of events that defy all logical understanding and laws of probability and averages leaving me feeling like its a futile effort and to continue is to push crap up a leaning tree with anything that creeps or crawls.i do get a good run in now n then though and im still enjoying it for the most part,so im not quite sick of it enough yet to stop.
 
LanaRhoades

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I play to have fun and get ITM.I never won a tourney because I play with fear.
 
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levidoff

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the bubble doesn't make sense in action. Even if you win a hand, your position in the tournament will not change much.
 
MAGICUZ

MAGICUZ

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It all depends on the bank and bankroll. You were unlucky .This is part of the game.
I'm the same risky guy,
I do not expect weather by the sea) all or nothing:cool:
 
mariale_1990

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always hurt to lose at that stage of the tournament, I recently spent 2 tournaments simultaneously, at that time I thought: they are plays that I must do, then consider it, at the beginning I regret, I thought I should wait a little longer, but then and a little more calmly analyzed my game and see if it was good to have played at that time, I always say that at the beginning to get it, then my goal is to reach FT and finally win the tournament
 
Poker_Mike

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You can't make it to the final table without making it in the money first.

But, having said that....if you play enough tournaments then you will bust on the bubble. And after playing really really well for hours and hours.....it hurts!

Such is the nature of tournaments.

Good luck !
 
H

Haftus

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ITM first

I think, that you should first play to be in the money. On the bubble you should fold almost everything, if you are short. When you are in the money, you can play more hands and try to win the tournament.
 
Poker_Mike

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I think the people saying bankroll is a consideration are partially correct, but you also need to have a decent sized bankrolls to be firing MTT's in the first place. If you are constantly thinking "I need to min cash this or my roll will be ruined" then you're playing WAY too big for your roll.

MTT's are generally excessively top heavy, especially as the field grows larger. Often you are looking at 15-25% of the ENTIRE PRIZE POOL to first place. So if you are going in looking for a min cash of ~2 buyins when there are say, 40-100 buyins up top or even more, then that's a problem.

Let's just take a stupid, simple example and show how important it is to place high.

You play a $10+1 tournament 1,000 times, and it has 1,000 runners. This means the total prize pool is 1,000 runners x $10 = $10,000. For the sake of argument we'll say there is $2,000 up top.

Let's say a decent player min cashes the tournament for $30, 20% of the time, and wins the tournament 2 in 1,000 times. (Yes this is a drastic oversimplification, but bear with me.)

They would cash for $30 20% of the time which is 200 of the times they played out of 1,000 = $6,000 back. They win it 2 times out of 1,000 and win another $4,000. This is $10,000 in cashes, but it cost them $11,000 to enter the tournament 1,000 times, so they are stuck $1,000.

They want to improve their play, so they focus on min cashing a lot to try to bring their numbers up. And let's say they improve dramatically, and start cashing it 25% of the time for $30 (this would be a pretty high cashing rate but w/e). But they still only win it 2 times out of 1,000. So now they add another $1,500 in cashes, to make them profitable for $500 in their 1,000 entries.

What if instead they focused on winning the tournament just 1 more time out of the 1,000? We are not talking a crazy amount. Going from winning it 0.2% of the time to 0.3% of the time. Well now you win $12,000 total on those $11,000 entries. A better improvement than improving your cashing rate by a lot.

Are these numbers made up? Yes.
Should you work to win more AND cash more? Yes.

But the point stands. So much of the money is up top in these things, and it actually becomes a stronger point once you see how much is in the top 3 or top 10 even. This example above actually favors the min casher a bit because we say that getting 2nd place doesn't do any better than say, 100th place.

Focus on going VERY deep, and the money will follow. If you focus on min cashing, you will FEEL like you are doing well, but may actually be losing money in the long run because you never go deep enough to hit those top few spots that actually allow you to have a positive ROI.


I think Scourrge describes the situation pretty well above....

Good luck !
 
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