To limp or not to limp

[oops944]

No limping, only pumping!

No limping, only pumping! I'd rather not limp and loose on the turbos as the antes frequently increase. It's a hard call but, I'd try to bluff, steal, or even tend to be aggressive. This works for me "No limping, only pumping!"
OOps

 

[TCashMoney19]

Hi,
I wonder why PokerStars school always say "Never limp, make a raise or fold". I think there is a plenty of situations where limp is better than raise, especially in a turbo tournaments, where you can't risk your 3BB raise with medium hand like AQ or KJ against someones all-in.
Sometimes when I play super carefull (e.g. when I need to make 15% best in league) I limp even with AK, cause this hand needs a pair to be premium and I don't wanna risk a flip.
I also think it's great way to play in early stages of tournaments when blind are really small, you can see many flops and hit two pairs, threes or better.
What you think about limping and this Pokerschool rule?

Limping is not a good strategy for a number of reasons.

1) You deny yourself the chance to pick up the pot preflop by making all other players fold. Why would you want to deny yourself the chance of free chips?

2) You are losing value. You can get called by many hands worse than yours preflop with AK, so when an ace does hit the flop the pot is already decently large and will only grow exponentially bigger once you start putting chips in the middle. AQ, AJ, AT and lower suited aces can and will call you preflop and will find it difficult to fold to even three streets of aggression.

3) You are losing equity. By allowing a multitude of people to limp in, AK does not nearly have as much equity 4 or 5 ways as it does heads up. As a result, you will lose the pot more often and will be lost if you get raises and reraises in front of you when you do flop an ace or king.

4) You are leaking chips by limping a lot of hands preflop and don't allow yourself to win pots using aggression or initiative. You're basically saying "well, I hope I hit a flop and if I don't you can take my chips". Aggression wins the pot two ways - either making the best hand or making your opponent fold a better hand. Passiveness wins the pot only one way - making the best hand. And that's hard sometimes.

5) Limping in weak holdings gives us more opportunities to get coolered by better holdings post-flop. Say you limp in Q9s or K9s and lower suited gapped hands. On a flop of JTK or TJQ, even when we flop a straight they are not the nuts. And whenever we make two pair, we run the risk of running into higher two pairs in certain scenarios.

I think this is a general overview of why limping is bad, but I'm sure there are reasons I missed as well. Overall, just not a good strategy and you should avoid it if you want to become a consistent winning player that isn't leaking chips in early stages of a tournament.

 

[marnburger]

I get much better when I started limping, and when I realise that AK, AQ are not such a great hands, but I talk only about micro stakes and elementary/high school league.
I beat most of the players on that level. Especially those who bet high with AK etc. on the preflop and then they go all-in postflop without any pair... AK is great to open push or check all-in in the middle/late stage of the tournaments, but as I mentioned – I play only micro stakes cash games and tournaments. I raise as you said in the last sentence. I limp AK with 15-20 BB, but not always. It depends...

Let's say you play turbo tournament you have $1300, BB is $100, you are under the gun, you bet $300, 2 players goes all-in, what you can do? Say bye bye to your $300. Or have ~35% chance to win.

I'm sure that on every level there are aggressive players that are most visible and they trying to force fold on almost every hand and every player. They want to steal anything no matter of what. And now I learned to deal with them.

Your example is definitely -EV, take a look at push/fold strategy. Playing with only 13BBs is pure maths.

 

[milka1605]

The poker school can not teach wrong. So this is how the stars play. All that is written in the articles checked by the players themselves.

 

[christiancjs]

I donr use the limp i hate limpers! I hate limp!

 

[PKRNRS]

Everyone has their game that they play. I don't see any problems limping at times. The simple pot odds you're going to get to call multi-way pots are worth it. If you got a table that has 5+ limpers in a pot then why not. You got "any two" and your hand is very well disguised. Your post-flop game as to be very sound though.

 

[twizzybop]

By limping you haven't gained control of the board at all. Yes granted the flop determines what happens. But limping will get you more in trouble then actually pre-flop betting.
Yes there are times when limping becomes necessary like every folding to you on the button and you can limp, possibly steal on the flop. Yet by limping when nobody is betting out on the flop or turn including yourself, that is leaving a lot of dead money on the table you possibly could have had pre-flop had you raised.

 

[Fenix7]

I limp sometimes with Suit Connectors, to see if I connect in the flop. This play when it turns out can give many chips.

 

[alexandro]

if you need to in a situation where the table is full on a family pot limp or go all in

 

[firstcrack]

Sometimes I afford myself the chance to play a little unorthodox. Limping can give me information about my table. Also, sometimes early on I don't mind limping just to see-the-flop--especially, in free rolls where inexperienced players are prone to over betting or not giving up on hands. I know it goes against the grain, and certainly I am aware when I am in this mode. Also, I definitely do not limp deep into tournaments--as a rule.

 

[drazak]

Some further reasons not to limp:

Suppose you limp and hit the nuts, several other people limped, now the pot is 4 or 5 BB, you bet 1/3 or 1/2 the pot for value on the flop, and have one caller, now the pot is 10BB, and isn't going to grow very much (as much as 40 BB betting at most half the pot). Now if you opened 2.5BB, and have 1 caller who is not in the blinds, the pot starts at ~ 7BB, which means that your half pot bet on the flop gets you to 14BB, and the betting half the pot on every street caps you out at 56BB. Of course you could bet more, but if you're betting for value you are hopng for people to call, and you might not be giving them good enough odds to call.

Secondly, you are more easily able to range your opponents if you open, starting from preflop, if you limp your range is neither condensed nor polarised, suppose someone opens after you, and your hand is good enough to cold call (if your hand was good enough to cold call, why did you limp?) but now you have no idea what range your opponent is working with they could simply have a medium hand, or a great hand, you haven't given him a chance to polarize his range. Now suppose you open and it folds to a villain who 3-bets, how his range is fairly polarized, he either has the nuts or air.

Finally, limping takes away from your ability to bluff effectively. One major part of bluffing is having a convincing story, if you limp into a hand you're going to have a hard time convincing people on following streets that you have a good hand, compare to when you open, and then continuation bet the flop, etcetera. Even if you limp and then bet the flop, your range isn't very polarized.

 

[HennieP]

Hi,
I wonder why PokerStars school always say "Never limp, make a raise or fold". I think there is a plenty of situations where limp is better than raise, especially in a turbo tournaments, where you can't risk your 3BB raise with medium hand like AQ or KJ against someones all-in.
Sometimes when I play super carefull (e.g. when I need to make 15% best in league) I limp even with AK, cause this hand needs a pair to be premium and I don't wanna risk a flip.
I also think it's great way to play in early stages of tournaments when blind are really small, you can see many flops and hit two pairs, threes or better.
What you think about limping and this Pokerschool rule?

Actually, PokarStars School doesn't say never limp. There's a whole section on position where it clearly states that when holding marginal hands and small pairs on the button or late position you might call if players before you called in order to see a cheap flop with the aim of either hitting the flop or folding.

It's not a case of should you or shouldn't you limp but rather a case of position, other players in the pot and what you hope to achieve.

 

[malakata19]

Hi,
I wonder why PokerStars school always say "Never limp, make a raise or fold". I think there is a plenty of situations where limp is better than raise, especially in a turbo tournaments, where you can't risk your 3BB raise with medium hand like AQ or KJ against someones all-in.
Sometimes when I play super carefull (e.g. when I need to make 15% best in league) I limp even with AK, cause this hand needs a pair to be premium and I don't wanna risk a flip.
I also think it's great way to play in early stages of tournaments when blind are really small, you can see many flops and hit two pairs, threes or better.
What you think about limping and this Pokerschool rule?

I agree with you but only with potential hands in MTT Turbos.

 

[trezvennick]

Never, never and again never limp! Since the modern random number generator will kill you 100% on the turn or on the river!!! But if GoD of Luck loves you so much-you can limping!!!

 

[deform fedot]

Never, never and again never limp! Since the modern random number generator will kill you 100% on the turn or on the river!!! But if GoD of Luck loves you so much-you can limping!!!

I agree with you. You can not give the fish a chance.

 

[bstest]

I used to follow the advice of raise or fold, and I did pretty well. These days for some bizarre reason, I want to see a lot of hands so I find myself limping more and then slowly losing my chips. Not sure what to do now. I'm assuming if you don't see alot of hands in turbo games you will soon be the short stack. I guess I decided to break the rules assuming I'm a better player than I really am. I'm going to limp less.

 

[Acesinthebig]

I am all for limping, especially if it puts people on tilt, or makes people think I can't play. I like big hands in early position all the time, especially in late stages of tournaments. Very rarely is there no action that follows. If 5 people limp in too well then my Aces are no good. You should be able to mix all available plays into your game. Also lulls others into thinking they can limp to.

 

[Ronaldo7]

I limp only aa kk from early positions on 1.1-11 tourneys, smaller one it is better it goes for me.. I never limp on cash game or in master league (in master people like to see flops cheap so only if you are lucky opponents have monsters too you can play limp 3bet i like)...

 

[tenaciousdc]

I will never open limp, but it can be profitable when others have limped before you.
But if you have good cards, and get sucked out on, it is your own fault if you limped into the pot..

 

[MidMoMan]

So, let's say you are UTG and have AK and bet 3x BB.
You have 3 callers, flop doesn't hit you... so then what?
Scene 1 - check, then 3 x BB is bet, then what fold (wasted 3xBB)?
Scene 2 - continuation bet 3x BB, another call and now your in pot big with nothing...

Just trying to help understand the strategy. Thanks

 

[yurok42]

You can play limp on the button with pocket aces! My personal opinion! What would refer the blinds to bluffing

 

[Pinokio_385]

I try to avoid this.....

 

[bujjhati]

One thing I always hear from pros about poker decisions is, there is no absolute decision, for every decision, there is a situation where you can explore it, so it may be not recommended to limp but there is certainly a situation where you can do it and be more profitable, I guess what you have to think is what move would suit your purposes better.

 

[celtics34]

seeing flops is always a good thing, knowing when to fold or not after u limp is the quesiton

 

[blackbill44]

i think limp is most useful for traps! i limp small pairs to set a trap! and the reason why you should reraise with ak is to make small pairs to fold! i use to limp when aggresive player is behind me!