Folding QQ on bubble?

[canfoldaces]

qq on the bubble.

It depends on the tourny and how much you are looking to make.
Think about the payout and what place you are going for. Unless you are crazy good I would not shoot for 1st place. That would mean you would play too loose to try to place higher. Think realistically where you could consistently place ITM. Then shoot for that. Sometimes you might place higher or lower. So if you are satisfied with the payout in last place of ITM then fold those qq

I agree with you

 

[Poma Lekain]

Hi,

I recently played a live tournement (200€ buy-in, 235 players) and folded QQ on the bubble (26 paid).
I was on the button. Around 20BB deep and got dealt QQ. There is a raise from UTG who covers me but doesn't have that much more.
At this point we were all quite shallow anyway and most people were close to the push or fold mode. So with that in mind raise UTG, I put the guy on a very strong holding. So I decided to fold.
Then I asked the guy. He had AK... It would have been a flip.
I still think It was the right decision but I'm curious of what you think. Would you have done differently?
At the end I busted 14th with... QQ hahaha. Against AQ. The guy hit an As...

I think you played well, but you could go all-in against AK. Probably even it was necessary.

 

[n1ckoftime]

Tough to do but sometimes it has to be done

 

[fundiver199]

Well you just proved my point bro. You obviously haven't been in this situation. You compare playing 20*$10 online with playing live for 2 days and risking everything with one hand... Even though I agree it was a very very good hand. And I thought about it before folding it. But you implied it's a ridiculous decision when, regarding your comments, you obviously haven't been in this kind of situation. Obviously if I'm playing several mtt online I shove in this situation but it's way different here. Stick to what you know bro.

I did not write anywhere, that I think, it was "ridiculous". Of course there can be situations, where we deviate from the most long term optimal line for emotional or personal reasons. This is ok, and I do it sometimes as well. Maybe I failed to cash 20 times in a row, or I am playing a tournament slightly outside my bankroll. So I REALLY want to get that min-cash, and I am willing to give up a bit of EV in the process.

But then no need to post the hand to a forum. After all only you can know, how important it was for you to cash in that tournament, and how much long term EV you were willing to give up to increase the chance of cashing.

As an outsider I can only look at this from a strict EV standpoint, and from such I certainly dont think, this was a good fold. And by even saying, you would have played it different, if it was an online MTT, you are also saying, that you know, it was not the right decision from an EV standpoint. Because otherwise why would it make a difference, what the stakes were, or how long the tournament had played?

Also I am somewhat surpriced, that you and many others seem to think, we can only fold or jam here. You did not mention his raise size, but most people today go for mini-raises or maybe up to 2,5BB, when stacks are this short. And that certainly leave enough room to call, see a flop, and only then decide, if we want to play for stacks.

If we was in fact making this very small open raise, I actually dont think, jamming is all that compelling with a 20+ BB stack. The risk/reward is not all that excellent, and he is probably playing rather close to perfect giving us action with KK+ and AK but possibly getting away from most of the hands, that we crush.

Add to that the bubble factor, and I can certainly see just calling being the best play here. After all BTN is the seat on the table, where it makes most sense to have a calling range, other than BB, where we are getting a price and closing action.

There is probably an argument for playing our entire range as a call here, so that we are trapping him and the blinds with KK and AA. Stack to pot ratio is going to be around 3, which is nearly ideal for an overpair, and if someone think, they can squeeze light, then we have the hands to defend with.

 

[Alekxandrovi3]

If the raise was small then you can see the flop in other cases, either limp or fold.

 

[Walttinho]

since it was near the bubble the correct one was fold, well you better not profit in a hand and go out with some money than have an AA KK and come out with nothing

 

[gallora]

Coin flip is always 50 to 50. To reset and continue the game was the right decision.

 

[Biibel]

You play too high for your bankroll if you need to think these things.

 

[Poker_Mike]

So I am amazed that there is no real agreement on this thread.

And to me that is what makes tournament poker so fascinating.

And it also explains the variety of different play one sees on the bubble.

In a way everyone is right and it's more important to be comfortable with your decision and realize the consequences.

Fold and wait until ITM to take any chances? Ok
Jam and get him to fold? Ok
Jam and get him to call with an inferior hand? Ok

The fact is that if he has an underpair and decides to call he is approximately 20% to beat you with a set. That's a pretty big number....it's not 1 in a million....it's one in five.

And to sacrifice a full day's work on one hand when you don't have to? Fine.

Then other players look at it the other way.....80% chance to absorb his stack.

It's so darn simple that it's complicated! LOL

Good luck !

 

[rj_montana]

Are we talking about a 2-3bb raise (5-7.5% of a 20bb stack) with QQ on the button?

Maybe 4-5bb (10-12.5% 20bb stack) I can see folding it down preflop

YES SB or BB could shove over,YES once you call you are never really holding AA or KK, and YES you will be facing a cbet vast majority of the time but really? You are at the top of your flatting range with QQ.

I don't like the fold because (1) you could hit a set and (2) there are at least some boards villain will not cbet. Also I don't agree with the assumption that if you fold and lose ~5% of your stack you will be the next one out.

 

[pacificatorul]

I would have called. See a flop and donk on a non A or K flop

 

[SPANKYSN]

Tough call. As we have seen from all of the posts in this thread, there is no completely right or wrong play. Fold, as you did to get in the money is fair...and it worked out fine for you. Call and see a flop...if A or K appear, you fold and still have a good chance to be ITM. Shove over top would work if villain is a pretty decent player, because V would not want to get caught with his hand in the cookie jar (busting on the bubble just to try to steal some blinds). If however, Villain is not a good player, he could be shove happy and get lucky against you.

 

[riff_raff312]

My opinion is you made the right call if you were just trying too make the money and get paid congrads , now if you were trying to win maybe the push was the right call at the end of the day it's all up to you at that moment so be happy and move on to the next game. :dancing2:


The Riff_Raff

 

[Rahatis]

Mtts = Flip ftw.
What levels? How many seats? What percentage of your br was the buy-in? What's the level of the players? Just a few questions about the decision you have to take. Don't mind me. Poker is all in and hope. Easy game for everyone with money.

 

[johnnylawford]

Hi,

I recently played a live tournement (200€ buy-in, 235 players) and folded QQ on the bubble (26 paid).
I was on the button. Around 20BB deep and got dealt QQ. There is a raise from UTG who covers me but doesn't have that much more.
At this point we were all quite shallow anyway and most people were close to the push or fold mode. So with that in mind raise UTG, I put the guy on a very strong holding. So I decided to fold.
Then I asked the guy. He had AK... It would have been a flip.
I still think It was the right decision but I'm curious of what you think. Would you have done differently?
At the end I busted 14th with... QQ hahaha. Against AQ. The guy hit an As...

My only addition to what everyone else has added is how important is a min cash to you, how top heavy is the pay schedule and how deep are you. In this example I think the fold makes sense, but if it was a SCOOP event and you wanted to chip up for a deep run it might be worth gambling if the min cash wasn't significant for you.

 

[canabero]

if my stack is not enough i could fold. it's very disgusting to get out on bubble whit a strong hand (even AA) anyway sometimes i have made good run whit low stack surviving bubble, so there is more to lose than win taking risks on bubble.

 

[essimicke]

Depends how big my stack is, If I'm short I'm folding.

 

[CaptainXL]

It depends on the table and what I’ve observed of the other players, but in the micro stakes and freerolls I play, I will probably reraise the QQ.

 

[linf]

maybe you did the right thing. or maybe not))
Now we don’t know. that's why we all love poker

 

[Kertooie]

i think QQ is a good fold on the bubble. I think too many people would be only raising top 5% of opening hands on the bubble to really go for it with QQ.

 

[Shawnt]

Circumstantial bubbling

I think it's okay to play Queens on the bubble just don't play your Queen's all in on the bubble note to self pocket aces can be folded on the bubble if it's an all-in moment just don't rest your life on the bubble good luck everybody on the tables and is always have fun

 

[Giancarlomen]

I would fold thinking about money bubble. It's tough decision

 

[diego farfan]

Your decision was correct since in your position you had the advantage but he faced you with a strong hand and due to the bubble the variance was favorable to him since 65% of the time a k u A would go where you would have been injured or eliminated

 

[deyvsonflp]

There is an interesting situation there. With that stack I would certainly call. If you are concerned about paying for the buy-in amount, I suggest lowering your level. You can't be afraid, with a hand like that. GL

 

[kristersb123]

Playing online I wouldn't fold but live its probably correct decision because there are less hands dealt and players usually play a little bit stronger hands.