Folding AA preflop

[fishinthesea]

I don't see why you would fold AA preflop, ever. Even if it's the bubble. When I play a tournament, I look to win., not to pansy out with the best hand. Who knows when you're going to get pockets aces again, or even any other premium hand. I may be completely wrong, but other than when 3-4+ people shove allin before you, I just can't see how folding aces pre-flop could even be a decision.

 

[darkassassin89]

I don't see why you would fold AA preflop, ever. Even if it's the bubble. When I play a tournament, I look to win., not to pansy out with the best hand. Who knows when you're going to get pockets aces again, or even any other premium hand. I may be completely wrong, but other than when 3-4+ people shove allin before you, I just can't see how folding aces pre-flop could even be a decision.

I see that 1st is your priority, thats great no doubt, but if you really want to risk you T life with a 63% or even a 52% chance to win then by all means call

AA are great, but sadly do not do too well in multi way pots.

But if 1st is your only goal, Then call away on the bubble is thats when you get AA

But just so we are clear, you must understand that you must adjust your play by the circumstances that come in poker. I mean, if a whole table was all in and you have AA do you call if you are the BB? I mean everyone just shoved.
So is it a good idea to call here? If you fold and only 1 person wins, (assuming everyone is even) you just jumped from 9th to 2nd by folding the best hand Pre flop.

The ponit being made here is, when is it a good time to consider folding AA pre flop. And many scenarios have been mentioned already, so take it or leave it

 

[FITEMAN]

Lol, just yesterday, went to the bathroom, came back and from a distance saw I had AA on one of my tables.
I knew I didn't have time to think so rushed to my computer and just moved my slider to AI.
Just when I pushed the raise button I was out of time and automatically folded.
Very EV- to go to the bathroom during a STT.


Looking on the lighter side and you being an expert member here at CC, I think by now you should realize the value of an empty Gatorade bottle next to your computer in the case of such emergencies.

 

[-Phil Ivey27]

I would fold AA on the bubble of WSOPME, provided I was shortstacked and folding would get me in the money.

Push

 

[yellowpad]

If I were in your situation, I would do the same. In the money is more important....let them four beat each other up!!!

 

[FeltLikeIt]

There is nothing worse than bubbeling, so yeah I would fold AA around the button too if there where 4 all ins and a crazy large stack flinging chips like its dirt... But good fold man1 can't believe he hit quads on flop, Stuff like that makes you wonder about the integrity of online poker huh?

 

[only_bridge]

Push

Yeah.
Folding would be the most +Ev move though.

 

[-Phil Ivey27]

Yeah.
Folding would be the most +Ev move though.

Yeah it'd be nice, everyone wants to say they cashed in the wsop.

But I still push otherwise I have no hopes of running deep in it, playing to scared.

 

[darkassassin89]

Yeah it'd be nice, everyone wants to say they cashed in the WSOP.

But I still push otherwise I have no hopes of running deep in it, playing to scared.

In a huge multiway pot, its more gambling.

Imagine you get AA in your BB, UTG Raises, +1 R/R, Then EVERYONE shoves behind, i mean just shove, shove, shove, shove, now its your turn. AA in hand
6 players are all in already, you have 2 behind you to act, the game just started, what do you do here with your AA?

 

[-Phil Ivey27]

In a huge multiway pot, its more gambling.

Imagine you get AA in your BB, UTG Raises, +1 R/R, Then EVERYONE shoves behind, i mean just shove, shove, shove, shove, now its your turn. AA in hand
6 players are all in already, you have 2 behind you to act, the game just started, what do you do here with your AA?

We are talking WSOP bubble here and I don't believe everyone has shoved..

If 6 people shove in front of me on the WSOP bubble and I have AA maybe I muck..

If 3 people shove in front of me on the WSOP bubble, I call.

 

[duggs]

In a huge multiway pot, its more gambling.

Imagine you get AA in your BB, UTG Raises, +1 R/R, Then EVERYONE shoves behind, i mean just shove, shove, shove, shove, now its your turn. AA in hand
6 players are all in already, you have 2 behind you to act, the game just started, what do you do here with your AA?

its not because your hands equity decreases less than the pot odds increase, 4 people shove and you have Aces i still snap it off bubble or not

 

[darkassassin89]

It was a hypothetical question obviously, but in this situation you should be folding, because your chances dramatically decrease But If you are a gambler, your probably never folding AA

 

[duggs]

It was a hypothetical question obviously, but in this situation you should be folding, because your chances dramatically decrease But If you are a gambler, your probably never folding AA

no thats wrong, never in a MTT should you be folding AA unless you are a shorty at the final table and winning doesnt significantly help your stack so your only goal is to climb the pay ladder.

 

[darkassassin89]

no thats wrong, never in a MTT should you be folding AA unless you are a shorty at the final table and winning doesnt significantly help your stack so your only goal is to climb the pay ladder.

sadly AA vs everyone on the table is only 34% chance to win.... Thats sick so if you really want to get yourself in a - EV situation with the BEST possible chance lol again, call/shove away I would be glad to take 2nd if it ment not having to fight for it or even a min cash haha money is money.

 

[-Phil Ivey27]

sadly AA vs everyone on the table is only 34% chance to win.... Thats sick so if you really want to get yourself in a - EV situation with the BEST possible chance lol again, call/shove away I would be glad to take 2nd if it ment not having to fight for it or even a min cash haha money is money.

We know the statistics. That is not the point though. It is absolutely not negative EV at all.

If you have 10,000 and everyone at the table shoves you are on average only a 34% favorite to win as you say.. But if you win you have 90,000, either making you chip leader, favorite to win, or if you're talking about the final table then the overall winner.

Or you can keep your 10,000, live to fight another hand and go on with the tournament. Some may choose to do this but it does make it a positive equity move due to the fact that if you win this crazy all in hand you become the favorite to win the entire tournament. Rather than going for your min cash or whatever it is you are doing. People are supposed to play to win 1st, that is where the money, as well as the glory is

I will take a 1 in 3 chance at becoming a dominant force in the WSOP and going for that big money/bracelet rather than folding and testing my skills against a shark infested field personally.

 

[darkassassin89]

We know the statistics. That is not the point though. It is absolutely not negative EV at all.

If you have 10,000 and everyone at the table shoves you are on average only a 34% favorite to win as you say.. But if you win you have 90,000, either making you chip leader, favorite to win, or if you're talking about the final table then the overall winner.

Or you can keep your 10,000, live to fight another hand and go on with the tournament. Some may choose to do this but it does make it a positive equity move due to the fact that if you win this crazy all in hand you become the favorite to win the entire tournament. Rather than going for your min cash or whatever it is you are doing. People are supposed to play to win 1st, that is where the money, as well as the glory is

I will take a 1 in 3 chance at becoming a dominant force in the WSOP and going for that big money/bracelet rather than folding and testing my skills against a shark infested field personally.

I guess I dont like to gamble much xD

 

[duggs]

I guess I dont like to gamble much xD

Its not gambling, dont say stupid things, would you fold the nuts on the turn if 3 guys went all in? it is no different,

 

[duggs]

sadly AA vs everyone on the table is only 34% chance to win.... Thats sick so if you really want to get yourself in a - EV situation with the BEST possible chance lol again, call/shove away I would be glad to take 2nd if it ment not having to fight for it or even a min cash haha money is money.

my god that is stupid, that is not -EV

 

[darkassassin89]

Its not gambling, dont say stupid things, would you fold the nuts on the turn if 3 guys went all in? it is no different,

When is AA the nuts in a 9 way all in preflop situation?

Many flops crush AA

987 KK2 AKQ all dimonds ext ext

So you cant say AA is the nutz, sorry try again

Although I do agree that if you want to be the big chip leader and almost be guranteed 1st YES CALL with AA xD however, in a big multiway pot, AA just does not hold up well....

Math/Experience alike.

 

[darkassassin89]

Anything that is 50% is break even, anything above 50% is +EV anything below is - EV, 34% is below.... SOOOO that means?? What children?

 

[-Phil Ivey27]

Its not gambling, dont say stupid things, would you fold the nuts on the turn if 3 guys went all in? it is no different,

It is different as there you are 100% to win and pre-flop you might be 50% or less or whatever it is.. Regardless still not negative EV, not judging you on what play you make Dark, but just know that it is extremely +EV.

 

[-Phil Ivey27]

Anything that is 50% is break even, anything above 50% is +EV anything below is - EV, 34% is below.... SOOOO that means?? What children?

Your +EV because of how much you can win, how many places you can move up in the money, and the position it puts you in to make a run at the tournament! It would be silly to play any other way.

 

[darkassassin89]

It is different as there you are 100% to win and pre-flop you might be 50% or less or whatever it is.. Regardless still not negative EV, not judging you on what play you make Dark, but just know that it is extremely +EV.

I see it both ways I am just bad at taking risks, they have never gone well for me xD

I guess after 5 hours/ or even a day of playing a game ( whatever the case may be ) I am at the bubble, I am going to freaking cash, sorry, I do not want to feel like i wasted my time.

^^^^ Worst feeling ever!

Then all you are remembered as is, the guy that busted with AA awwww and you bubbled too!! Awww awww,,, darn.. well.. um later.

 

[duggs]

I see it both ways I am just bad at taking risks, they have never gone well for me xD

I guess after 5 hours/ or even a day of playing a game ( whatever the case may be ) I am at the bubble, I am going to freaking cash, sorry, I do not want to feel like i wasted my time.

^^^^ Worst feeling ever!

Then all you are remembered as is, the guy that busted with AA awwww and you bubbled too!! Awww awww,,, darn.. well.. um later.

AA is the best hand preflop, folding it is a massive leak as you should be trying to actively chip up during bubble to make a decent run. choosing min cashing over accumulating chips= -EV

 

[darkassassin89]

AA is the best hand preflop, folding it is a massive leak as you should be trying to actively chip up during bubble to make a decent run. choosing min cashing over accumulating chips= -EV

Well I always call with AA

In a 2-3 way pot. But when it gets 4 way, i start to question if i should.

Any more players than 4 it becomes a coin flip.... I have had this happen 1 time and I was already a good chip lead, so i folded and folded the looser so all was well ( 5 way shoved pot )

Its not always about your hands... it is about the situation, about what you are trying to accomplish. Rather than saying I AM NEVER FOLDING AA! lol Some situations justify folding AA. There is always another hand I dont play the cards, i play the players.