Dirty Tactic or Fair Play?

[Zorba]

I'm kind of torn on this one. As far as timebank usage goes, I am probably the complete opposite of blix. I have never been in the habit of stalling. I always want to see more hands. Even though it might irritate the heck out of me and may be bad poker etiquette, it's obviously not against any rule. And if I'm being honest, I can see how it puts enormous pressure on the short stacks as the clock ticks towards the next blind level. Still, I don't want to be that guy that makes the game unbearable for the whole table because I think that there may be some benefit to having everyone be pissed at me. This seems like some of that bull crud that people do online, but wouldn't pull in a live game, except for Jordan Cristos. Look him up. Trust me, you don't want to be that guy.

In this scenario the whole table consists of 3 players, slowing down play puts pressure on the short stack.

Which guy don't you want to be, the guy with the winning mindset?

:top:

 

[thehangdude]

If you elect to play this way, I won't object. You have every right to behave as you want within the rules. But don't expect me to champion your behavior. I feel like purposefully running down the clock each turn is rude and of minimal value.

If you feel it gives you an advantage, then play your game.

 

[Igor Popadyk]

playing slowly, you do not break the rules, for this you need a time bank, any adequate player understands this, although such a game can be annoying, but I myself often see how players waste time on the bubble

 

[acemenow]

Just to be clear which most seem to understand in the comments but still, what you are describing is not a slow roll, A slow roll indicates that you have the Nuts have won the hand already but are draining the clock because you are being annoying to the person.

What you described is slow playing the hands and using that to your advantage because your opponent was in a hurry. There are too many variables in online play to look at this as a nefarious move imo. First of all you are simply using the tools availble to you to gain an edge. Whether or not its proper etiquite is a moral question at best and not necessarily one that should matter imo. All you should be focused on at this point is playing in a +EV manner and if using the clock fits that than so be it.

A reasonably seasoned online player will understand this they may or may not agree with it but its part of the online gameplay. So I see nothing wrong with this.

And as stated above your opponents need to leave for an appointment or whatever is not your concern and certainly not your responsibility to adjust because of it.

So I was at the final table and at the same time I was multi tabling. I was in no rush to go anywhere. So instead of playing my hands normally I just slow roll every hand with all my timer.

By the time we went down to 3 player, 1 of them I know was in a rush to go. He had 30BB, vs me 40BB and a small stack 8BB, and he was just shove or fold, with a shove or reshove rate of 70%. Since he was in a rush and I was not I just milked the timer to the max each hand to slow the game down.

From my perspective I have no reason to speed up the game, I am already playing in 2 other tournaments.

 

[youri]

You know what? I'll just quote Mike Mcdermott from Rounders '' "it's immoral to let a sucker keep his money '' So, Never Give a Sucker an Even Break.

 

[Zorba]

Just to be clear which most seem to understand in the comments but still, what you are describing is not a slow roll, A slow roll indicates that you have the Nuts have won the hand already but are draining the clock because you are being annoying to the person.

What you described is slow playing the hands and using that to your advantage because your opponent was in a hurry. There are too many variables in online play to look at this as a nefarious move imo. First of all you are simply using the tools available to you to gain an edge. Whether or not its proper etiquette is a moral question at best and not necessarily one that should matter imo. All you should be focused on at this point is playing in a +EV manner and if using the clock fits that than so be it.

A reasonably seasoned online player will understand this they may or may not agree with it but its part of the online gameplay. So I see nothing wrong with this.

And as stated above your opponents need to leave for an appointment or whatever is not your concern and certainly not your responsibility to adjust because of it.

Especially 3 handed with 1 short stack and 1 wanting to leave, the clock is your best friend in this scenario. Let the blinds KO the shorty and stall against the guy wanting to leave, he may end up sitting out happy with 2nd place, that's an easy 1st place.

I don't understand this "I don't want to be that guy" this is 3 handed,
if they don't want to be that guy then why are they playing poker for. :dontknow: Is it to min cash???

:bandit:

 

[madbeeet]

There is no reason for you to rush, everyone is on an equal footing and limited by their time. And only you decide how to dispose of them. In this situation, I would have thought a little longer) And it was better to choose hands for all in)

 

[IntenseHeat]

In this scenario the whole table consists of 3 players, slowing down play puts pressure on the short stack.

Which guy don't you want to be, the guy with the winning mindset?
:top:

First, this scenario did not begin when the whole table consisted of 3 players. He says that by the time they got down to 3 players, one of them was in a rush to go. But his post indicates that he played whole final table in this manner. Last week I finished 4th in a tournament that started at 11:00 PM. It was like 7:00 AM by the time we got to the final table. It probably took another two and a half hours for the final table to play out. And that's without anybody stalling the game. The only place I had to go when it was over was to bed. Even then I wouldn't have appreciated having another hour added to the length of the game by someone's slow play.

Second, since you quoted the post, you should have read it. Do what it says. Look up Jordan Cristos. By the time you get done typing his last name into google, the top suggestion below his name is "Jordan Cristos Tanking". This guy had the floor called on him more than twenty times in one day at the wsop a couple of years back. Most people don't realize that he has over two million in tournament winnings. Instead, what he is known for is being the slowest player in poker. Other players absolutely despise him for it. There are multiple twitter threads about how much people hate his slow play. It is widely believed by a lot of players that people like him ruin the game of poker by making it unbearable to play at a table with them and even worse to watch on TV, which lowers the games overall popularity. That's the guy I don't want to be.

 

[hugh blair]

So I was at the final table and at the same time I was multi tabling. I was in no rush to go anywhere. So instead of playing my hands normally I just slow roll every hand with all my timer.

By the time we went down to 3 player, 1 of them I know was in a rush to go. He had 30BB, vs me 40BB and a small stack 8BB, and he was just shove or fold, with a shove or reshove rate of 70%. Since he was in a rush and I was not I just milked the timer to the max each hand to slow the game down.

From my perspective I have no reason to speed up the game, I am already playing in 2 other tournaments.

Appreciate your honesty blix177 while I never time bank on bubble as pointless as hand for hand anyway or final table personally,
It is your game and money play it however you wish,
Would not bother me if I was your opponent on that table to be honest either.
If people are fuming over clock usage they need to relax and work on their self control to be honest though in my opinion.
Online clock runs fairly fast anyway couple of seconds but I understand the frustration though at live players taking an eternity to fold their J2 off suit for example every single hand.

 

[popstani]

I definitely don’t like slowing down the game in the final table, but again it’s your right to use your time how ever you want. So, my thinking is that if you want to slow roll it’s your legit right. If someone is inpatient, that’s he’s problem.

 

[tauri103]

it is true that it must be painful for your opponents to manage to have to wait for the stopwatch to stop with each hand you play. I put myself in their place especially at the end of the game when the nerves are sharp and fatigue is felt. but it is a strategy like any other. you have the right to apply it and enjoy the benefits it brings to you.

 

[fundiver199]

Just to be clear which most seem to understand in the comments but still, what you are describing is not a slow roll, A slow roll indicates that you have the Nuts have won the hand already but are draining the clock because you are being annoying to the person.

Or to be more precise: You are facing an all-in, you are closing action, and you have the nuts or at least a hand, which is so strong, that you are never going to even consider folding it. But instead of just calling as fast as possible you take actions to make your opponent think, you are going to fold or call with a worse hand than his.

This will always include delaying action but often also some kind of mimic or table talk to pretend, you are unhappy with the situation. A famous example is Shaun Deep vs. Mike Matusow at Poker Night in America. Mike has JJ on a low board and plays it very fast against Shaun, who flopped quads with 55. On the turn Mike overbet shoves, and Shaun takes a bit of time while making faces, before he announce "ok I call".

In live poker a slowroll can also be done at showdown. If for instance the board is JJ842, a player holding JJ might say "I have a pair".... pause.... "and another pair" before presenting his quads. Or a player holding top set with AA might say "I have an ace" (flipping over one and giving hope to the opponent, who has already shown AK)...... pause..... "and another ace" flipping over his last card. This is against the rules in pretty much any card room.

 

[fundiver199]

Last week I finished 4th in a tournament that started at 11:00 PM. It was like 7:00 AM by the time we got to the final table. It probably took another two and a half hours for the final table to play out. And that's without anybody stalling the game. The only place I had to go when it was over was to bed. Even then I wouldn't have appreciated having another hour added to the length of the game by someone's slow play.

Exactly. A final table dragging out is typically going to be annoying for everyone, even if they dont "have to go". Also if you are a winning player / playing for profit, you want to make the best possible use of your own time, which you certainly dont do by slowing action at the final table. On the contrary you might want to sometimes cut the final table short by making a deal, when its down to 2-3 players, if you dont have an obvious edge on the opponent(s). OP say, he is more comfortable playing with shorter stacks, which I guess is fair enough. But the far superior solution is to become better at postflop play for instance by practicing with cash games or maybe some slow structure deep stacked MTTs.

 

[AKQ]

My personal opinion is ...
if you are the aggressor taking a long time is beneficial.
Blinds go up whilst less hands get dealt.
Bigger blinds to steal and less chance of hands to defend against you.
If you are a tight player than seeing more hands cheaply and quickly would be more preferable.
Its all about your strategy and your opponents strategy's complex relationship

 

[UkoChebuko]

playing slowly, you do not break the rules

Actually you do break the rules. But I do that. I do that everytime. If I am not with a big stack. Or if I play a satellite. Had two warnings from Stars, back in the days. That's it.

 

[fundiver199]

Actually you do break the rules. But I do that. I do that everytime. If I am not with a big stack. Or if I play a satellite. Had two warnings from Stars, back in the days. That's it.

There is nothing in their current TOS about stalling action. I also regularly do this on the bubble, unless I am a big stack and can "bully" other players on the table.

 

[Devspuch]

It is not good or bad cards that are important, it is important to be able to play with bad ones. What matters is not what cards you actually have, but what they think the enemy is.

 

[MAGICUZ]

it's not a tactic, you just annoy everyone with it.But on the other hand it's your right, play as whatever you want.But it's better not to do it like that it's not pretty

 

[MauroMMMM]

I believe that one has the right to play taking the time that he wants, and for whatever reasons he deems appropriate. Poker must be played early. Thinking what one is going to do. I think anxiety and speed don't go hand in hand with this game.

 

[UkoChebuko]

"There is nothing in their current TOS about stalling action".

I don't know what is "TOS", some "rules of the room" maybe. In any room are some words for this. "Slow game", "slowing game"....You can take ban for this. In theory. But I never heard about ban for "tanking". I mean there are some cases, online, life, but I never ever actually saw someone in the forums. But I had warnings for this. I am not lying, why I should...

 

[blix177]

"There is nothing in their current TOS about stalling action".

I don't know what is "TOS", some "rules of the room" maybe. In any room are some words for this. "Slow game", "slowing game"....You can take ban for this. In theory. But I never heard about ban for "tanking". I mean there are some cases, online, life, but I never ever actually saw someone in the forums. But I had warnings for this. I am not lying, why I should...

It is weird they would take action. It is like you get 15 seconds per hand. But you are only allow to use 14 seconds.

 

[1nsomn1a]

I think when a person does not deliberately delay time because of multitabling he usually does not notice it, but if you focus on it, it is done on purpose, there are no rules for how to play poker and everyone can do what they want, but everyone has the right to be annoyed or not, so do not be surprised if someone calls you an idiot, because this is also their style of play and perhaps gives them an advantage.

 

[UkoChebuko]

Well, see the things from their eyes. What can they do!? There is a "hand for hand" rule. One player before the money , these days is two players more often, sometime three. But this is bad for the online poker. All of this.

A lot of blood from my nose. WTF..The jewish god is punish me for tanking .

I said to them "I play many tables, 20-24". And they "we don't care, play faster at the bubble or you will take ban the next time". But this is a lie ofc. I can play 20 tables and still not slowing the game. And they know that...The jewish guys. They are not dumb...

 

[fundiver199]

TOS = Terms Of Service, and on pokerstars these say nothing about stalling. Neither do their tournament rules, which you can also find on the homepage. Not saying, that this did not happen as described, but maybe they have actually come to their senses.

I also dont see, why stalling is even a problem for the poker site. The tournament will finish around the same time anyway, and they got their money already. So why do they even care. Most likely a customer complained, and then a staff member took a fairly misguided line of action. He should just have told the customer, that other players can take as much time, as they like.

 

[UkoChebuko]

Ok, mate, I am not lying. Do you really want to find this words in this TOS thing? I will do that for you. If you want. I am little drunk, but for the big truth I will find this.

Mate... I can't do this right now. But in this forum Google finds topics for this. Some players said "Stars sent me a warning". "You will be banned the next time". There are some rules for this. They can't just close your acc without explanation...Without some rules. Even some "hidden rules". With small letters...