Katie Dozier
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Matt_Burns88
Legend
Loyaler
Hi Guys, welcome to Cardschat.
My favourite format is heads up SnG's. This is because the games are normally quick - most are over in 10-15 minutes - and the variance is so low. I have a current win rate on 61%, although admittedly the sample size is very small at just over 100 games. The issue is the rake at the low stake is very high at around 7-8% meaning most of my winnings go to the house!
What advice would you have for heads up? I would like to improve so that I can move up a few buy-in levels where the rake isn't such a significant amount of the buy-in.
My favourite format is heads up SnG's. This is because the games are normally quick - most are over in 10-15 minutes - and the variance is so low. I have a current win rate on 61%, although admittedly the sample size is very small at just over 100 games. The issue is the rake at the low stake is very high at around 7-8% meaning most of my winnings go to the house!
What advice would you have for heads up? I would like to improve so that I can move up a few buy-in levels where the rake isn't such a significant amount of the buy-in.
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Thanks for the welcome Matt!
61% winrate is great even over a smallish sample, well done
Here are the three biggest pieces of advice I have for this format:
Peg your opponent quickly. The sooner you know his style (or at least have an educated guess), the quicker you can make profitable adjustments like limping buttons against maniacs or folding marginal hands when a passive player is showing strength.
Value bet thin. If it's close, go for the value bet when you're playing heads-up because hands go up in value so much against a single opponent.
Jam wide from the big blind with 20bb or less. Particularly if an aggressive opponent is still raising at this effective stack, punish him by shoving wide. Hands like low-mid offsuit aces and low pocket pairs are particularly ideal for this purpose.
Good luck!
61% winrate is great even over a smallish sample, well done
Here are the three biggest pieces of advice I have for this format:
Peg your opponent quickly. The sooner you know his style (or at least have an educated guess), the quicker you can make profitable adjustments like limping buttons against maniacs or folding marginal hands when a passive player is showing strength.
Value bet thin. If it's close, go for the value bet when you're playing heads-up because hands go up in value so much against a single opponent.
Jam wide from the big blind with 20bb or less. Particularly if an aggressive opponent is still raising at this effective stack, punish him by shoving wide. Hands like low-mid offsuit aces and low pocket pairs are particularly ideal for this purpose.
Good luck!
JoeKampman
Rock Star
Silver Level
Hi and first off thanks for doing this. It’s really exciting learning from someone who has mastered what you’re working on.
Question: what kind of bankroll would you find comfortable to play $5 SNG? I’m currently running 3 tables at a time. I think it’s amazing how many some people play, but it’s astounding the level of play one would have to have to run 40 at a time.
Also Katie, when your running 40+ tables do you find a downswing takes less time to get through??
Question: what kind of bankroll would you find comfortable to play $5 SNG? I’m currently running 3 tables at a time. I think it’s amazing how many some people play, but it’s astounding the level of play one would have to have to run 40 at a time.
Also Katie, when your running 40+ tables do you find a downswing takes less time to get through??
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Thanks Joe! For the bankroll question, that's a good Q -- it depends a lot on your ROI and whether you're willing to reload or go down in buyin if you go on a downswing. Generally 100 buyins will be a good rule of thumb, so $500 for you to play the $5s. But $250 also works well if you have a good ROI (such as 5%) and you're willing to drop down a level if you start going on a bigger downswing.
Katie Dozier
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Cool question, Joe!
In general it does take less time to get through a downswing, because on a given day of mass-multi-tabling I can play around 200 MTTs and MTTSNGs, so that’s 1k games over a five day period which is often a cited benchmark for a significant sample size in these games.
However, flip side to that is that my ROI per game does slightly decrease when playing 40+ tables so having the lower ROI slightly increases my chances of having a longer downswing because the lower your ROI, the higher your chances of a downswing/break even stretch are. Overall though I do get through the downswings faster than if I were playing just a handful of tables, and mass-multi-tabling is a decision based on maximizing my hourly win rate.
Thanks for asking
Katie Dozier
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Aw thanks, Joe, for taking the time to ask your great questions! [emoji4]
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Luan, you can still buy Sit & Go Strategy online as either a physical book or eBook.
Alternatively, you could wait for the course that Katie and I are working on now for CardsChat which will have a completely updated approach for beating SNG and other formats
Alternatively, you could wait for the course that Katie and I are working on now for CardsChat which will have a completely updated approach for beating SNG and other formats
mbrenneman0
Legend
Silver Level
Hey Katie and Collin, Im Ori13 on twitter and twitch, great idea on the QandA, looking forward to reading your thoughts
My question is do you think SNGs are dead on US facing sights? I know some sights have made efforts to revive them, but those efforts seem shortlived
My question is do you think SNGs are dead on US facing sights? I know some sights have made efforts to revive them, but those efforts seem shortlived
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Hey Ori13! I definitely know you on Twitter and it's great to see you here on CardsChat.
I think that there are still decent US SNGs, particularly on WPN. Besides lots of jackpots and lowstakes games, there are a reasonable amount of mid-stakes 6-max and 9-man SNGs that run in peak times. So I definitely agree that SNG traffic is much lower than it used to be, both in US sites and Stars/Euro sites, but for now these games are still ticking
I think that there are still decent US SNGs, particularly on WPN. Besides lots of jackpots and lowstakes games, there are a reasonable amount of mid-stakes 6-max and 9-man SNGs that run in peak times. So I definitely agree that SNG traffic is much lower than it used to be, both in US sites and Stars/Euro sites, but for now these games are still ticking
E
Enplo650
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Icmizer
Hello from Greece. You are the best. I have read sng strategy and math of holdem. I am very glad that I can ask you here some things about.
At first, when I use icmizer,analyzing 3,5r-180 man,in which phases i calcute with icm and no cEV???
Thanks for your time and sorry for my English!!!
Hello from Greece. You are the best. I have read sng strategy and math of holdem. I am very glad that I can ask you here some things about.
At first, when I use icmizer,analyzing 3,5r-180 man,in which phases i calcute with icm and no cEV???
Thanks for your time and sorry for my English!!!
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Hello in Greece Enplo!
Normally it was that you use cEV from the start to 10 players left, and then ICM only at the final table. But now it is possible in ICMizer to use ICM with 100 players or more left. When you have the option to check the box for MTT Mode, do that and put in the total chips in play and you can have more accurate results.
Normally it was that you use cEV from the start to 10 players left, and then ICM only at the final table. But now it is possible in ICMizer to use ICM with 100 players or more left. When you have the option to check the box for MTT Mode, do that and put in the total chips in play and you can have more accurate results.
akmost
Rising Star
Loyaler
Hello guys again ,
Two questions about the below spot,we are ITM of a $0.50/180:
1.Is my defend here too wide?I mean am I losing EV by defend 1 bb here?
2.Is my check / shove line too aggressive?
Second nut flush draw plus 1 higher card.
Is +EV if I had the Ah here or FD + 2 higher cards?
Thanks
PokerStars - 600/1200 Ante 125 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
SB: 9.98 BB (VPIP: 24.62, PFR: 14.04, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 67)
Hero (BB): 9.97 BB
UTG: 9.63 BB (VPIP: 15.63, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
UTG+1: 10.88 BB (VPIP: 22.06, PFR: 15.52, 3Bet Preflop: 27.78, Hands: 70)
MP: 9.96 BB (VPIP: 29.41, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 17)
MP+1: 9.34 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 26.32, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 43)
CO: 7.76 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 24)
BTN: 3.93 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
8 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 2.33 BB) Hero has K♥ 3♥
fold, fold, MP raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1 BB
Flop: (5.33 BB, 2 players) 2♠ J♥ Q♥
Hero checks, MP bets 2 BB, Hero raises to 7.87 BB and is all-in
Two questions about the below spot,we are ITM of a $0.50/180:
1.Is my defend here too wide?I mean am I losing EV by defend 1 bb here?
2.Is my check / shove line too aggressive?
Second nut flush draw plus 1 higher card.
Is +EV if I had the Ah here or FD + 2 higher cards?
Thanks
PokerStars - 600/1200 Ante 125 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
SB: 9.98 BB (VPIP: 24.62, PFR: 14.04, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 67)
Hero (BB): 9.97 BB
UTG: 9.63 BB (VPIP: 15.63, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
UTG+1: 10.88 BB (VPIP: 22.06, PFR: 15.52, 3Bet Preflop: 27.78, Hands: 70)
MP: 9.96 BB (VPIP: 29.41, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 17)
MP+1: 9.34 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 26.32, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 43)
CO: 7.76 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 24)
BTN: 3.93 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
8 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 2.33 BB) Hero has K♥ 3♥
fold, fold, MP raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1 BB
Flop: (5.33 BB, 2 players) 2♠ J♥ Q♥
Hero checks, MP bets 2 BB, Hero raises to 7.87 BB and is all-in
Katie Dozier
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Hello guys again ,
Two questions about the below spot,we are ITM of a $0.50/180:
1.Is my defend here too wide?I mean am I losing EV by defend 1 bb here?
2.Is my check / shove line too aggressive?
Second nut flush draw plus 1 higher card.
Is +EV if I had the Ah here or FD + 2 higher cards?
Thanks
PokerStars - 600/1200 Ante 125 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
SB: 9.98 BB (VPIP: 24.62, PFR: 14.04, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 67)
Hero (BB): 9.97 BB
UTG: 9.63 BB (VPIP: 15.63, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
UTG+1: 10.88 BB (VPIP: 22.06, PFR: 15.52, 3Bet Preflop: 27.78, Hands: 70)
MP: 9.96 BB (VPIP: 29.41, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 20.00, Hands: 17)
MP+1: 9.34 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 26.32, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 43)
CO: 7.76 BB (VPIP: 37.50, PFR: 5.00, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 24)
BTN: 3.93 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
8 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 2.33 BB) Hero has K[emoji813] 3[emoji813]
fold, fold, MP raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1 BB
Flop: (5.33 BB, 2 players) 2[emoji812] J[emoji813] Q[emoji813]
Hero checks, MP bets 2 BB, Hero raises to 7.87 BB and is all-in
Hi Akmost! As played, I very much like your decision to check/shove the flip with the overcard and second nut flush draw. The pot is very significant to your stack, which makes it a particularly good time to semi-bluff here, so well done!
Back to the pre-flop action now: personally I do not have a flatting range in this particular spot with a sub-ten big blind stack. Especially because we’re post ante, I would be playing shove fold out of position here facing a raise with a sub 20 blind effective stack. Suited kings are particularly profitable for reshoving spots, so I’d recommend shoving over the raise preflop here unless you have a specific read on your opponent that lends you to be suspicious about their raise.
Thanks for posting this interesting 180-man hand
E
Enplo650
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Icmizer
Hello again. Another one question about icmizer. When it suggest me to push,and I have more than 15 bb,I always must shove or open raise with 2,5-3bb????the same question I have when it say me to push with a 3bet. If I have many bb,should I raise 3bet or 3 bet all in???
Thanks again for your time!!!!
Hello again. Another one question about icmizer. When it suggest me to push,and I have more than 15 bb,I always must shove or open raise with 2,5-3bb????the same question I have when it say me to push with a 3bet. If I have many bb,should I raise 3bet or 3 bet all in???
Thanks again for your time!!!!
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Good question Enplo. What it means if this software says to Push is that it believes shoving is profitable. But you can decide on another option. For example, with a 19bb stack from early position, you can have ICMizer tell you whether it likes shoving KJs. It will probably say yes, but because you're this deep I would min-raise instead because you have a much better risk-reward ratio.
Katie Dozier
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Not late at all, Najisami and thank you!
I tend to prefer turbos but reg speed sngs are fun too (and often softer games).
R
RedbeardFishing
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Best way to learn SnG in 2019
Hey Collin! Hey Katie! Old time poker player here, played back in the full tilt days, and returned to poker just a few months ago. I've been playing mostly MTTs & been experiencing tons of variance (standard, I know.) so I was thinking of going back to SnG like the old days.
I read your book but it's been a solid decade or so. I was wondering, does everything in it apply still in todays game? Also, besides your book, what would you recommend a player study to master SnGs? I like 9 man. Are there any good courses out there or anything like that?
Hey Collin! Hey Katie! Old time poker player here, played back in the full tilt days, and returned to poker just a few months ago. I've been playing mostly MTTs & been experiencing tons of variance (standard, I know.) so I was thinking of going back to SnG like the old days.
I read your book but it's been a solid decade or so. I was wondering, does everything in it apply still in todays game? Also, besides your book, what would you recommend a player study to master SnGs? I like 9 man. Are there any good courses out there or anything like that?
CRStals
Moderator
Moderator
Hi Katie and Colin!
Recently I have discovered micro KO hyper turbos on Stars, $3, 24 players, top 4 paid + $1.36 per person knocked out.
My question is because this is a hyper turbo starting with only 10BB, what is a solid shove range early on?
Recently I have discovered micro KO hyper turbos on Stars, $3, 24 players, top 4 paid + $1.36 per person knocked out.
My question is because this is a hyper turbo starting with only 10BB, what is a solid shove range early on?
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Najisami, I also prefer turbos because they're the classic format where you get to play the bubble and end stages (usually at least) with lots of shoving. But regular speed are fun too and like Katie said, they're usually softer because recreational players like the slower structure.
CRStals, it depends of course on your position, how many remaining players you cover, and the effective stack. Usually any two cards besides junk in the small blind (tighter if the BB covers and 100% of hands if we cover him). From any position and any situation, usually pocket pairs, suited broadways, and suited aces will all be good safe shoves. Good luck in these games!
CRStals, it depends of course on your position, how many remaining players you cover, and the effective stack. Usually any two cards besides junk in the small blind (tighter if the BB covers and 100% of hands if we cover him). From any position and any situation, usually pocket pairs, suited broadways, and suited aces will all be good safe shoves. Good luck in these games!
Collin Moshman
Poker Expert
Silver Level
Hey Redbeard! Thanks for posting on here.
All the fundamentals of the book still apply, like what ICM is and the discussions on equity. But the optimal strategy has changed because there are generally more regs playing at least reasonably well, and fewer recreational players colliding. So you generally need to play a looser game than we recommend in the book.
The course that Katie and I are working on isn't just for 9-man SNGs but covers them heavily and is completely geared toward becoming a winning player. In the meanwhile, the biggest thing I can recommend is getting either a one-month subscription or even just free trial to ICM software like ICMizer or Holdem Resources. Study the ranges a lot. They're vital for 9-man SNG play. And for deeper-stacked hands, post them right here on CardsChat. Good luck!
All the fundamentals of the book still apply, like what ICM is and the discussions on equity. But the optimal strategy has changed because there are generally more regs playing at least reasonably well, and fewer recreational players colliding. So you generally need to play a looser game than we recommend in the book.
The course that Katie and I are working on isn't just for 9-man SNGs but covers them heavily and is completely geared toward becoming a winning player. In the meanwhile, the biggest thing I can recommend is getting either a one-month subscription or even just free trial to ICM software like ICMizer or Holdem Resources. Study the ranges a lot. They're vital for 9-man SNG play. And for deeper-stacked hands, post them right here on CardsChat. Good luck!
L
labdaddy1
Rising Star
Bronze Level
the all-in crazy Ivans
I tried Sng's but hang mostly in tourneys as it easier to avoid those all-in slot players. got tired of getting AA/KK/QQ cracked with 9/3 suited or J2 off. Is there a strategy to improve your odds against crazy Ivans? or just a crap shot every time on poker sites?
I tried Sng's but hang mostly in tourneys as it easier to avoid those all-in slot players. got tired of getting AA/KK/QQ cracked with 9/3 suited or J2 off. Is there a strategy to improve your odds against crazy Ivans? or just a crap shot every time on poker sites?