Ask Collin Moshman and Katie Dozier About Sit ‘n Goes!

[Collin Moshman]

Great to see you both here!
I am new to the forum and I have just completed the entire poker course and it is a really great stuff! Thank for this, it has helped me a lot!
I prefer the 9-man SNGs and focusing on this format but recently I played some 18 and 45-man turbo SNGs as well.
What is the key differences when playing 18-man and 45-man SNGs vs 9-man?
Thanks, David

Thanks David! That's great to hear.

The main differences are adjusting to the payout structure and specific ICM situations that come up in each of the formats. For example, in an 18-man with linear 40/30/20/10 payout structure, you have to be extremely tight calling it off as a mid-stack from 5-handed all the way to 3-handed. Whereas in 9-man, you can loosen up once you reach 3-handed relative to the bubble.

If you're doing well at one format you can definitely succeed at one of the others. Just make sure to plug all your shove/fold spots into a calculator if you're unsure on the best play. Good luck!

 

[blkmoney12]

Hi Collin and Katie. I'm searching for some advice.

However, since then, I have either been losing or just breaking even. It often seems blinds eat away at my stack and then I am soon forced to shove my chips in the middle when I finally get a hand. Of course, I'm not winning too many of these coin flips which seems to frustrate me even more. I play mostly NLHE tournaments and have resorted to playing Low to Micro buying. I don't want to give up because I know downswings have a way of correcting but I don't know how much more I can take till that happens. Any suggestions?

 

[Jonb0324]

Do you tink double up poker is a good way of building your bankroll up?

 

[Collin Moshman]

Do you tink double up poker is a good way of building your bankroll up?

Yes. Generally any format that you enjoy and has soft opposition is a good one for building up a bankroll (so long as the rake is reasonable). Double-up games will also be lower variance which is a great quality to have for building up a roll consistently.

 

[Collin Moshman]

However, since then, I have either been losing or just breaking even. It often seems blinds eat away at my stack and then I am soon forced to shove my chips in the middle when I finally get a hand. Of course, I'm not winning too many of these coin flips which seems to frustrate me even more. I play mostly NLHE tournaments and have resorted to playing Low to Micro buying. I don't want to give up because I know downswings have a way of correcting but I don't know how much more I can take till that happens. Any suggestions?

Good question Blk and sorry to hear you've been downswinging recently. A few suggestions I have based on what you're saying (more details in the course):

** Don't play too tight early. For example, start playing suited broadway hands from all positions if there's an ante (and from middle position and later if there isn't one)

** Work a lot on shove/fold ranges. Holdem Resources has a free tool or there's great paid software. You should often be shoving weak hands with a very short stack instead of getting blinded out.

** Put in the volume or work to change mindset where a given coinflip loss is less noticeable, not that it's ever fun!

I hope that helps and best of luck

 

[blkmoney12]

ty for the Advice

Ty for the Advice I sure hope it gets me out of the downswing I need all of the help I can get.

 

[Katie Dozier]

Ty for the Advice I sure hope it gets me out of the downswing I need all of the help I can get.

We hope it works out very well for you!

 

[blkmoney12]

Thank you for posting my reply I've made a very critical decision as far as that goes

Thank you for posting my reply since I posted the reply things had gotten worse on pa poker stars I'm down to $131. At one point on there I was up as high as over $900 and I was looking forward to getting over a thousand. So I had to make a very critical decision it's a hard decision for me because I'm a fighter and I don't like to get give up on things but I made the decision to not play on pa poker Stars for 2 weeks I started that on last Saturday it's been 3 days so far there's a termin series the next week and there's a big term and on pa poker stores that's a $500,000 guarantee price pool I will be competing in salads to try to get in but I'm not been doing well on the site it was suggested that I take two weeks off from it what do you think should I take the 2 weeks off if so how's what tournamentsshould I start playing in and what tournaments should I be playing in be playing in. I'm going to try to build Bank rolls elsewhere but I have a very little or no money in them like American card room for example or black Chip poker also going to take more time to have more volume and studying the game especially the online game and the try to have a good mental mindset I think this is important I don't know where all this will lead to I think at this time is the right decision what do you think get back to me as soon as you can thank you thank you Colin Moshman and Katie Dozierand before I go one more thing have you ever had to go through down swings like that before how did you get through them thank you and have a nice day goodbye.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Blk, sorry to hear about the downswing. I think it's definitely a good idea to take that time off and then build back up at lower-stakes games while studying a lot. We've both for sure gone through a number of downswings in our poker careers and this approach of a short break, studying a lot, and building back up is definitely the way to go. Good luck and don't worry I think you'll rebound soon with this approach

 

[PotluckXXI]

Head's Up Jammers

The one style of play I'm having difficulty with is getting heads up in a SnG and villan starts jamming 4 of 5 hands or more. At this point the stacks are usually 10-20 BB ea if distributed evenly. Typically I'm getting garbage (J4s looking promising bad hands), I'll raise button/SB when I have good cards (both either being Aces, Faces, or T's, and pairs). I've tried multiple approaches and with little discernable result beyond gambling, true I will usually crush when I have a monster pre but waiting on premium hands is death with next level blinds.

Thanks for any advise

 

[williemays56]

3 betting

i like any anything connected and 77 and above I've called. I've been tacking all in 77 66 88 for two weeks and find this to be very interesting I've have won 15-21 times all in pre flop

 

[Katie Dozier]

The one style of play I'm having difficulty with is getting heads up in a SnG and villan starts jamming 4 of 5 hands or more. At this point the stacks are usually 10-20 BB ea if distributed evenly. Typically I'm getting garbage (J4s looking promising bad hands), I'll raise button/SB when I have good cards (both either being Aces, Faces, or T's, and pairs). I've tried multiple approaches and with little discernable result beyond gambling, true I will usually crush when I have a monster pre but waiting on premium hands is death with next level blinds.

Thanks for any advise

It can be really frustrating heads-up when your opponent is shoving and you’re not picking up good cards. On day 23 of our free CardsChat course (https://www.cardschat.com/become-a-winning-poker-player/) we give some advice for short-handed and heads-up play.

If it feels like you’re waiting for premiums to call in short-stacked spots, you may want to review the common HU calling ranges to make sure you’re calling wide enough in these spots. Generally speaking, we can call wider than one might think HU—particularly versus an opponent that seems to be shoving a wide range.

Hope this helps and good luck with your next HU battle

 

[Pokerpoet2]

Heads up should always be played aggressive, Why? because he always has the same type of hands as you do. Sure you can fold horrible hands like 7/2 off or 9/2 off but even these can win if the flop is on your side.
My golden rule for Heads up is fold rubbish only to a raise and in the small Blind, and if you intend playing a hand at all, you should NEVER LIMP!
Always raise with any hand you would like to see the flop with, being prepared to fold to a re-raise or all-in push.
The only time I break this rule is when I get a Monster hand and I want him to be the aggressor so I would limp pre-flop hoping for a raise and then move all-in. Once he gets wind of this style of play he will eventually fall into the trap because he will start doing the same.
Monkey See, Monkey Does!

When the fun Stops, STOP!

 

[P1R35]

Hi Collin,
I got a question about 3bet from BB with 30bb effective stack.

• What’s your range (and sizing assuming a 2bb open) you 3bet vs early/middle/button/ positions ?
• Do you have any 3bet all-in range with 30bb ?

Cheers

 

[Collin Moshman]

Hi Collin,
I got a question about 3bet from BB with 30bb effective stack.

• What’s your range (and sizing assuming a 2bb open) you 3bet vs early/middle/button/ positions ?
• Do you have any 3bet all-in range with 30bb ?

Cheers

Good questions P1!

To being by answering the second question: Yes I do. Facing a larger open or raise + call(s), this would of course be pretty common to have a jamming range. But against a single min-raise, I would still usually jam hands like low-mid pocket pairs over late position raises. Most other hand types I'd definitely be either flatting or 3-betting smaller though.

The range question really depends on opponent type. As an example, against a loose-passive calling station, I would only be 3-betting for value and my range (for making it ~ 6.5bb) would be something tight like: ATs, AQo, 99 -- depending a lot on positions and how wide the player was raising to begin with.

Against a good reg you'd want to be polarized here, 3-betting for value with any hand you'd be happy to call off a jam with and balancing with hands near the bottom of your defending range like 83s.

 

[P1R35]

Good questions P1!

To being by answering the second question: Yes I do. Facing a larger open or raise + call(s), this would of course be pretty common to have a jamming range. But against a single min-raise, I would still usually jam hands like low-mid pocket pairs over late position raises. Most other hand types I'd definitely be either flatting or 3-betting smaller though.

The range question really depends on opponent type. As an example, against a loose-passive calling station, I would only be 3-betting for value and my range (for making it ~ 6.5bb) would be something tight like: ATs, AQo, 99 -- depending a lot on positions and how wide the player was raising to begin with.

Against a good reg you'd want to be polarized here, 3-betting for value with any hand you'd be happy to call off a jam with and balancing with hands near the bottom of your defending range like 83s.

OK. So let's say vs unknown opponent:
- vs UTG we 3b/c to 6.5bb with QQ/AK.
- vs MP with JJ/AK
- vs LP we 3B/call TT+/AQs+ and start to 3B-shove 22-99 (or 22-66 are a bit too bad risk-reward ratio ??? We risk 30bb to win ~4,5bb).

What about AJo-AKo ? You think it can be best to 3b-shove it ? (because those hands have bad equity realization but good equity when called).

 

[wimpyfish1]

I've never had much luck just shoving a hand like that.
Just saying.
See the flop and go from there
A good c bet usually does the trick but gives you the option to bail if you change your mind.

 

[Collin Moshman]

OK. So let's say vs unknown opponent:
- vs UTG we 3b/c to 6.5bb with QQ/AK.
- vs MP with JJ/AK
- vs LP we 3B/call TT+/AQs+ and start to 3B-shove 22-99 (or 22-66 are a bit too bad risk-reward ratio ??? We risk 30bb to win ~4,5bb).

What about AJo-AKo ? You think it can be best to 3b-shove it ? (because those hands have bad equity realization but good equity when called).

Your ranges definitely look reasonable. I would for sure be shoving 22-66 against an LP raiser. Even though the risk/reward ratio isn't amazing, by far the most likely outcomes are that you pick up the 4.5bb or that you're flipping.

AJo-AKo I would normally 3-bet/call although just jamming AJo would be fine. If you face a min-raise and shove 30bb with AKo, you're usually missing too much value though. Take the risk that you get called and miss the flop instead of shoving, which knocks out too many hands that we dominate and want action from.

I've never had much luck just shoving a hand like that.
Just saying.
See the flop and go from there
A good c bet usually does the trick but gives you the option to bail if you change your mind.

It's usually better to 3-bet shove low pocket pairs up to even 30bb or so when you're out of position against a raiser who's on a wide range.

 

[Patrick Healey]

Professors Of Poker

Wow!!! I'm stoked to be taking your course. I have played so much Poker in my life, unfortunately I can not say I have been successful lately. I learned how to play a long time ago but went to prison for 14 years and played almost everyday in there. I have seen more flops then most players, but "prison poker" is not like poker out here so it's time to freshen up. Thanks for offering the course!

 

[SperrStundIs]

Hy you both.
I wanna start with SNGs and MTTs but I am completely lost on how a typical Session should look like.
Right now there are 20 or maybe more different types of SNGs on Stars and I wanna play them all but that's obv. not possible

What I worked out until now is:
--- Play at least 100 of each Type (that fit in my way of Schedule) maybe more because u need a good sample to know if u are a winner or not and how much u are winning.

--- finish 1 Type than go to the next. I started with a randomizer for which game I play but then I am so nervous that I have to play something when I bust. I really think that finish 1 first is best. Because then I just can grind.

--- Where do you guys draw the line where the difference is between Types? Blind Lvl? Players? In Mtts startet first ? last? max, min Players? Satz?

--- What is with the 16man Satz or the Winner takes it all 12man Satz for the series right now Sngs? Are these Scams (not scams but u need a HUUUUGE sample for them haha)

--- I saw a Video from Collin on ps.de and he mixed everything but like I said earlier I would max mix 1 Sng Type with Mtts so that I always have a lottery Ticket open haha.

--- And maybe which sport or aerobic u make. I found already a very nice site for meditation and nutrition.

--- The best thing I learned last week was that I can make math with Expectat Value.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Wow!!! I'm stoked to be taking your course. I have played so much Poker in my life, unfortunately I can not say I have been successful lately. I learned how to play a long time ago but went to prison for 14 years and played almost everyday in there. I have seen more flops then most players, but "prison poker" is not like poker out here so it's time to freshen up. Thanks for offering the course!

Thanks Patrick, we appreciate that! Best of luck with the course and feel free to let us know if you have any questions as you make progress.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Hy you both.
I wanna start with SNGs and MTTs but I am completely lost on how a typical Session should look like.
Right now there are 20 or maybe more different types of SNGs on Stars and I wanna play them all but that's obv. not possible

What I worked out until now is:
--- Play at least 100 of each Type (that fit in my way of Schedule) maybe more because u need a good sample to know if u are a winner or not and how much u are winning.

--- finish 1 Type than go to the next. I started with a randomizer for which game I play but then I am so nervous that I have to play something when I bust. I really think that finish 1 first is best. Because then I just can grind.

--- Where do you guys draw the line where the difference is between Types? Blind Lvl? Players? In Mtts startet first ? last? max, min Players? Satz?

--- What is with the 16man Satz or the Winner takes it all 12man Satz for the series right now Sngs? Are these Scams (not scams but u need a HUUUUGE sample for them haha)

--- I saw a Video from Collin on ps.de and he mixed everything but like I said earlier I would max mix 1 Sng Type with Mtts so that I always have a lottery Ticket open haha.

--- And maybe which sport or aerobic u make. I found already a very nice site for meditation and nutrition.

--- The best thing I learned last week was that I can make math with Expectat Value.

I would suggest only mixing formats if you have to because traffic is too low or there isn't consistently soft action in one game type. If possible to stay with one format, that's recommended because you can specialize in it and not have to worry about mixing up decisions based on game type.

To me, the fundamental difference between formats is the payout structure. In other words, a 45-man with 7 paid is one game type. There's definitely a difference if you switch a factor like level length, but it's still a 45-man and structure is most important.

Hope that helps, if there's something I haven't answered on mixing different formats just let me know and I'm happy to elaborate.

 

[SperrStundIs]

sry guys but I have to ask my question again.
How can I create my Session of the 40 different Sng Types?

 

[Collin Moshman]

sry guys but I have to ask my question again.
How can I create my Session of the 40 different Sng Types?

I'm happy to answer but not sure I understand your question. You want to play a session where you mix 40 different types of SNGs? Please try to explain one more time in as much detail as possible and we'll get this answered

 

[BigFatRat]

Hi Collin an Katie,

First, thank you for all the time you two put into helping all of us, I really appreciate it!

Collin, I have been playing SNGs for a year now, starting at the micros with a $20 bankroll, now I’m bankrolled for $20 games. Largely due to the advice from your SNG strategy book, so again, thank you.

I’m currently focused on studying ICM implications. My first chunk of focus is my own profitable shove ranges. I’m making some assumptions based on my observations about opponent calling and over calling ranges, and working out the situations at various effective stacks (I use Simple Nash to run the calcs).

In doing so, I compare my solutions to yours that you printed in the shove/fold tables in your books, as well as to the associated Nash equilibrium ranges, just as an exercise in understanding your assumptions and how my solutions differ depending on my own assumptions of the players in the games I’m playing.

In looking at your ranges, a couple questions came to mind.

1). Do you mind elaborating a little on the assumptions that you made to come to your profitable shove ranges?

2). I noticed that at about 7 BB and less stacks, your solution starts to approach the Nash equilibrium solution, and that above 7 BB your solution deviates from Nash by becoming increasingly tighter than Nash as stacks increase. I was specifically comparing the CO shove ranges when I noticed this. Is there a mathematical reason that the ranges start opening up at 7 BB, is it based on your experience, or are there other reasons?

I ask these questions as I think at my current stage of learning, I will get the best bang for my SNG studying buck if I work on optimizing my late game/bubble play. I think better understanding your thought process will greatly improve my own.

Again, thank you for your time, I appreciate it immensely.

PS: please please PLEASE consider making your SNG strategy book into an audio format!!!! I think a lot of your fans would love that!!!