Ask Collin Moshman and Katie Dozier About Sit ‘n Goes!

[VBB112]

I read Collin’s book back in the day and I need to revisit it but I have gone through this whole thread and haven’t seen any discussion about 3 betting preflop.I imagine you’re almost always 3betting AA’s, KK’s and AK pre, maybe even QQs. (Unless you’re working some exploitive play.) But what about more speculative cards, for instance, when in the button facing a raise from an active HJ or LJ at 40bb, would you 3bet ATo, or A2-A6s or 86s? What types of spots might you 3bet preflop with non-premium cards?

I also need to get started on the new(ish) class! Thanks again for being here!

 

[Collin Moshman]

I read Collin’s book back in the day and I need to revisit it but I have gone through this whole thread and haven’t seen any discussion about 3 betting preflop.I imagine you’re almost always 3betting AA’s, KK’s and AK pre, maybe even QQs. (Unless you’re working some exploitive play.) But what about more speculative cards, for instance, when in the button facing a raise from an active HJ or LJ at 40bb, would you 3bet ATo, or A2-A6s or 86s? What types of spots might you 3bet preflop with non-premium cards?

I also need to get started on the new(ish) class! Thanks again for being here!

Good question!

Typically I recommend taking an approach that depends on your opponent.

Against Loose/weak Players or Maniacs: I would usually just 3-bet for value hands that I wanted action. Depending on the context, that might be very tight like QQ+ and AK or quite a bit wider in a situation like heads-up where AJ would definitely qualify.

Against Tougher Opponents: you normally want to have a polarized 3-bet range pre-flop. This means that you're 3-betting strong hands for value, and at 40bb this would be only hands that you're willing to stack off with. And you're also 3-betting hands that you're going to fold facing 4-bet.

As an example, suppose a good opponent raises from early position and we're in middle position with 40bb. Our 3-bet range might be high pocket pairs, AK, and some low suited aces or AT kind of hands -- just like you said in your post

Hope that helps and thanks for the nice words in your posts!

 

[VBB112]

Good question!

Typically I recommend taking an approach that depends on your opponent.

Against Loose/weak Players or Maniacs: I would usually just 3-bet for value hands that I wanted action. Depending on the context, that might be very tight like QQ+ and AK or quite a bit wider in a situation like heads-up where AJ would definitely qualify.

Against Tougher Opponents: you normally want to have a polarized 3-bet range pre-flop. This means that you're 3-betting strong hands for value, and at 40bb this would be only hands that you're willing to stack off with. And you're also 3-betting hands that you're going to fold facing 4-bet.

As an example, suppose a good opponent raises from early position and we're in middle position with 40bb. Our 3-bet range might be high pocket pairs, AK, and some low suited aces or AT kind of hands -- just like you said in your post

Hope that helps and thanks for the nice words in your posts!

Thanks for your thoughts!

You two have done something that amazes me even more than poker. You wrote a novel. Together! That is fantastic. I wrote a novel but my wife wasn't actively involved. Not every couple has what it takes to accomplish this feat. And you're still together!

Much respect!

 

[Katie Dozier]

Thanks for your thoughts!

You two have done something that amazes me even more than poker. You wrote a novel. Together! That is fantastic. I wrote a novel but my wife wasn't actively involved. Not every couple has what it takes to accomplish this feat. And you're still together!

Much respect!

Awwww thank you [emoji4] And congrats on your own novel!!

We had a ton of fun writing that together. Time is a bit more difficult to come by now that we have two kids, but I hope we’ll get to write another one together one day and your kind post reminds me of that fact!

 

[C_mac]

I'm hoping to get some insight to improve my game. So I only play the same game. I play 6 max Sit N' Goes. I only play the micros as I'm trying to practice proper bankroll management. I would say I'm a winning player as my bankroll slowly but steadily continues to climb.

Here is my frustration. More often then not I'm making it to the final two which is the only two spots that pay. The breakdown is like this:

1.50 entry with a prize pool of 7.92.
1st place gets 5.15, 2nd gets 2.77 and the rest goes to the rake.

If I finish 2nd, I only profit 1.27. I've been getting killed in HU. I've tried playing more aggressive, passive and everything in between. Should I playing a different game or keep trying to improve in HU? I just find HU to be so much more luck then skill and so maybe I should being playing full ring games or it's time to move up in stakes where the payouts are better. About 6 weeks ago my bankroll was down to 4 bucks and I changed up my strategy. Since then I've built it back up to 70 bucks playing in these micros winning 1.27 at a time and the odd 1st place. My goal was to get my bankroll up to 100 bucks before moving up, but I just finished 2nd in about 6 of the last 10 I played and those second place finishes are killing me.

Thoughts?

 

[Collin Moshman]

I'm hoping to get some insight to improve my game. So I only play the same game. I play 6 max Sit N' Goes. I only play the micros as I'm trying to practice proper bankroll management. I would say I'm a winning player as my bankroll slowly but steadily continues to climb.

Here is my frustration. More often then not I'm making it to the final two which is the only two spots that pay. The breakdown is like this:

1.50 entry with a prize pool of 7.92.
1st place gets 5.15, 2nd gets 2.77 and the rest goes to the rake.

If I finish 2nd, I only profit 1.27. I've been getting killed in HU. I've tried playing more aggressive, passive and everything in between. Should I playing a different game or keep trying to improve in HU? I just find HU to be so much more luck then skill and so maybe I should being playing full ring games or it's time to move up in stakes where the payouts are better. About 6 weeks ago my bankroll was down to 4 bucks and I changed up my strategy. Since then I've built it back up to 70 bucks playing in these micros winning 1.27 at a time and the odd 1st place. My goal was to get my bankroll up to 100 bucks before moving up, but I just finished 2nd in about 6 of the last 10 I played and those second place finishes are killing me.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't worry about your finish distribution too much so long as you're content with your ROI. (Congrats on running it up from $4 to $70!) If you think you're losing more than your share of heads-ups, it could be a number of reasons including:

** Leak in your heads-up game

** Small sample size

** You're bringing too few chips to the battle

To elaborate on this last one, a player who's too passive on the bubble (not saying that's you at all!) will on average have fewer chips when they make it to heads-up.

With all that said, so long as you enjoy 6-max SNG and are doing well, I would definitely keep playing them even though strings of 2nd place finishes can for sure be frustrating. Just work on your heads-up game and make sure you're bringing enough chips in to battle

 

[Bobbybones1950]

I Understand Bad Beats and coolers are a part of life.

I mostly play in the generous free-rolls offered here at Cardschat. Living in the U.S. the tournaments are somewhat restrictive but there are still a Great amount to play.

My question is referring to the hand I have attached. If I start playing more in $$ Tournaments Perhaps in the $3-$6. category will I see less folks calling my Shoves with crap cards?

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/4qDMfGr

 

[Collin Moshman]

I Understand Bad Beats and coolers are a part of life.

I mostly play in the generous free-rolls offered here at Cardschat. Living in the U.S. the tournaments are somewhat restrictive but there are still a Great amount to play.

My question is referring to the hand I have attached. If I start playing more in $$ Tournaments Perhaps in the $3-$6. category will I see less folks calling my Shoves with crap cards?

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/4qDMfGr

Yes, you will see fewer players making significant mistakes like calling here with 85 as you move up in buy-in. But you want your opponents to make significant mistakes

I know it feels frustrating times like this when they make a mistake and it pays off for them. But as poker players, we need to focus on our EV. If we profit from an opponent's mistake in the long run, then it's benefiting us.

Keep on getting it in good like you do here and it will pay off even if luck takes a lot of games to even out!

 

[Bobbybones1950]

Yes, you will see fewer players making significant mistakes like calling here with 85 as you move up in buy-in. But you want your opponents to make significant mistakes

I know it feels frustrating times like this when they make a mistake and it pays off for them. But as poker players, we need to focus on our EV. If we profit from an opponent's mistake in the long run, then it's benefiting us.

Keep on getting it in good like you do here and it will pay off even if luck takes a lot of games to even out!

Thankyou I really Appreciate the info and advice

 

[Enplo650]

sng coach

hello again.another one question.I play turbo sng at pokerstars.also i study sng coach/icmizer.my question is, on chip ev training i choose 12,5% or 20% antes?
thanks again,you are the best!!!!!

 

[Collin Moshman]

hello again.another one question.I play turbo sng at pokerstars.also i study sng coach/icmizer.my question is, on chip ev training i choose 12,5% or 20% antes?
thanks again,you are the best!!!!!

Good question Enplo -- I would pick 12.5% antes since the highest they get in SNG is 15% and they're frequently lower than this.

 

[jdorganic]

Scam n Go 😄

 

[Katie Dozier]

Scam n Go [emoji1]

Haha never heard that one

 

[EmiTou]

The sit is very interesting for me, right now I am playing many about 180 players, I reached the final table twice and I find it very attractive, I hope to progress to obtain greater profits, if you want you can give us some advice or share the link of the book? thank you

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)][/COLOR][COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)][/COLOR]

 

[Isildurrr696969]

Sit n Go first to raise 2x or 2.5 i notice more folds at 2.5 from the BB what would you reccomend as a opening raise size for 20bb plus stacks

 

[Collin Moshman]

The sit is very interesting for me, right now I am playing many about 180 players, I reached the final table twice and I find it very attractive, I hope to progress to obtain greater profits, if you want you can give us some advice or share the link of the book? thank you

Yes! Play these like small-field MTTs but be very aware of the late game pay jumps starting at 27 players. The min cash is fairly small but still impacts strategy in the ways we outlined in the CardsChat 30 day course discussion of risk aversion.

Good luck, these are a great format that Katie and I have always really enjoyed.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Sit n Go first to raise 2x or 2.5 i notice more folds at 2.5 from the BB what would you reccomend as a opening raise size for 20bb plus stacks

Good question!

I would recommend min-raising (or just over) if the effective stack is 25bb or less. At 40bb I generally prefer a 2.5x raise size. Keep in mind though it depends on your style/preferences as well as how tight the table is.

 

[samsonand]

Woo excellent material dear friend, but the book where I could find it

 

[DoIHaveAFlush]

Hi all,

Quick question - how should you play against an opponent who constantly c-bets flop and turn with a pot-size bet? Obvious, if you have air you should be doing anything foolish. But on the other hand, I have the impression this person is firing potsize on flop and on turn no matter which hand he or she has...

any advice on this?

Cheers

 

[Collin Moshman]

Hi all,

Quick question - how should you play against an opponent who constantly c-bets flop and turn with a pot-size bet? Obvious, if you have air you should be doing anything foolish. But on the other hand, I have the impression this person is firing potsize on flop and on turn no matter which hand he or she has...

any advice on this?

Cheers

Good question. I suggest folding more frequently to the flop bet (which you can do facing larger net sizes without getting exploited), but taking a stand and calling down all the way when you do continue.

For example, if you have 2nd pair on a dry flop and think your opponent will fire three straight pot sized bets with a very wide range, call him down on most run outs even though it’s a bigger pot than you’d normally want to play with 2nd pair!

 

[Pokerpoet2]

Colin and Katie I was wondering what your thoughts are about this was I just lucky or was it a good read.

I was involved in a live game and on the BB when the player shoved all-in UTG. My first reaction to this was to fold my pocket 8s but the Hi-jack called and then the button called and suddenly my 8s became a bit more attractive.
My reasoning was that the player UTG would not have shoved unless he had an Ace and the other 2 players were also calling with an Ace, So believing this to be true any pocket pair could be a solid hand so I re-raised and the 2 others were pot committed and had to call.
I hit trips on the Turn and almost made 4X my stack. Now my question is was this pure luck or a solid read on my opponents?
Some will say luck, But I really believe the latter to be true, I have done this before and on that occasion with pocket 9s I also made 4X my stack.

 

[thatguy6793]

Hey guys thanks for sharing all this information with the community. My question is that during a lot of micro SnGs I've been running into players that constantly shove on the flop with hands that weakly connect to the board during the first few levels. In your opinion what type of hands would you call with at this early stage?

 

[Collin Moshman]

Colin and Katie I was wondering what your thoughts are about this was I just lucky or was it a good read.

I was involved in a live game and on the BB when the player shoved all-in UTG. My first reaction to this was to fold my pocket 8s but the Hi-jack called and then the button called and suddenly my 8s became a bit more attractive.
My reasoning was that the player UTG would not have shoved unless he had an Ace and the other 2 players were also calling with an Ace, So believing this to be true any pocket pair could be a solid hand so I re-raised and the 2 others were pot committed and had to call.
I hit trips on the Turn and almost made 4X my stack. Now my question is was this pure luck or a solid read on my opponents?
Some will say luck, But I really believe the latter to be true, I have done this before and on that occasion with pocket 9s I also made 4X my stack.

Good question! You can answer this well using the free program Equilab by putting in ranges for your opponents and seeing what equity (% winning chance) 88 has against them. It takes some time when putting in multiple opponents to run but gives a good answer!

Generally when multiple players call an all-in, while you’re absolutely right that a number might hold an ace making one less likely to hit the board, the chance of a high pocket pair goes up a lot. So this may be a spot where it’s close but reasonable to call if your opponents are very loose and/or you’re happy to gamble

 

[Collin Moshman]

Hey guys thanks for sharing all this information with the community. My question is that during a lot of micro SnGs I've been running into players that constantly shove on the flop with hands that weakly connect to the board during the first few levels. In your opinion what type of hands would you call with at this early stage?

You’re welcome!

I think it really depends on the flop texture, stack depth, and how loose your opponents are. On a typical flop like KJ8 without a flush possible, it would be reasonable to get it in with any king or strong Jack assuming your opponent is very loose.

Hope that helps + feel free to post a specific hand and I’d be happy to give an opinion on it!

 

[obie_]

Great to see you both here!
I am new to the forum and I have just completed the entire poker course and it is a really great stuff! Thank for this, it has helped me a lot!
I prefer the 9-man SNGs and focusing on this format but recently I played some 18 and 45-man turbo SNGs as well.
What is the key differences when playing 18-man and 45-man SNGs vs 9-man?
Thanks, David