Ask Collin Moshman and Katie Dozier About Sit ‘n Goes!

[Collin Moshman]

You're welcome Jirasuonna!

Luvart, good questions!

(a) Yes, they definitely still have good value for micro-stakes players. The games still run and have lots of soft opposition

(b) Conservative is good in the micros and when you're learning. As you build up in buyins and experience, you do want to start playing looser and expand into playing more spots profitably. Tight-aggressive is great against weak/loose players, but less effective against perceptive regulars where you need to do more to have an edge.

 

[azforlife]

Hey Guys,
I'm not as good as you two but I feel like I've got a good ROI when it comes to SNG 50%+
My main question is regarding BRM, how much should I set aside for SNG's? I've got a $300 bankroll for MTTs mostly but other Pros keep telling me to play sngs.
Already have a hard time with BRM with MTTs as it is so your guidance would be highly appreciated!
Thanks for doing this!

 

[Katie Dozier]

Hey Guys,
I'm not as good as you two [emoji4] but I feel like I've got a good ROI when it comes to SNG 50%+
My main question is regarding BRM, how much should I set aside for SNG's? I've got a $300 Bankroll for MTTs mostly but other Pros keep telling me to play sngs.
Already have a hard time with BRM with MTTs as it is so your guidance would be highly appreciated!
Thanks for doing this!

Hi Azforlife,

Thanks for your nice words! [emoji4] Bankroll size can certainly be tricky! CardsChat just released our 30 day poker course, and I think the day on Bankroll management would be the best fit to helping you figure out what bankroll will work the best for you in SNGs.

Here’s the link to the course: https://www.cardschat.com/become-a-winning-poker-player/ The bankroll/variance day is week 3, day 20. Of course there’s also a section about it in the ebook we wrote on that page in addition to the video!

Hope this helps and good luck at the tables! [emoji4]

 

[piobest]

Hi guys, good luck with everything.

Let me ask you another question, I have been playing SNG 0.25-1.5 for a long time, constantly learning, books, videos, etc. I can't call my game quite bad, but my schedule is still going right and down without stopping. I don't have the money for a coach to take the game apart.
Please tell me what you should first pay attention to in your game.Thanks.

 

[jirasuonna]

I am posting this on all the Ask Me Anything forum to try to see if there is a consensus or difference of opinion among the pros answering questions on CardsChat.
*********************************


I have been looking for information about considerations for re-buys, add-ons, late registration. Almost all comments in forums seem to be in favor of add-ons, with logic like "Why would you give your opponents an advantage over you?"

I will preface this with my bias. I don't like the idea of any of them and would prefer if none of them existed. If I had my way every tournament would be a freeze-out, but that based on a style preference. I feel that you can apply a little more pressure if the villain can't re-buy ad nauseum.

I understand that re-buys and add-ons help the casino meet guarantees. (It is frustrating when you think you have found a bargain tournament, and re-buys are filling out that guarantee without increasing the prize pool.)

I understand that in live tournaments re-buys, and add-ons make sense because you have to travel to the casino and getting knocked out and going home empty handed sucks.

I play exclusively online. There is always another tournament.

Re-buys only make sense to me if you are knocked out in the very early rounds. Any later than that and you are just buying into another tournament at a significant disadvantage. This amounts to late registration, which only makes sense to me if you think you have a monstrous edge, and it is worth your while to save a little time by not playing the early rounds.

Add-ons are a weird concept to me. You are effectively chopping your return on investment in half. If the add-on, significantly improves your odds of winning, I can see where it might make sense, however, the ones I have played don't usually have a huge amount of chips; usually x1-x2 the chips of the initial buy-in. A couple levels and it will be insignificant. For it to be useful you have increase it exponentially, if you are willing to play that way, it may be more useful to attack peoples' add-on with your short stack.

This got a little verbose. It seems that re-buys, add-ons, and late registration are -EV options, because they diminish your ROI. They are only useful with regard to time considerations, or if the tournament has some value to you other than pure monetary reward.

Am I being naive here? Is there a magic formula for determining when to get an add-on?Or should I just keep going for extreme long shots by refusing re-buys and add-ons?

Thanks!

 

[Collin Moshman]

Hi guys, good luck with everything.

Let me ask you another question, I have been playing SNG 0.25-1.5 for a long time, constantly learning, books, videos, etc. I can't call my game quite bad, but my schedule is still going right and down without stopping. I don't have the money for a coach to take the game apart.
Please tell me what you should first pay attention to in your game.Thanks.

Hey Piobest! It's slightly tough to say, but I would recommend starting with just playing the right hands pre-flop. If you play a solid tight-aggressive style pre-flop, that will make your post-flop decisions less complicated and keep you out of trouble. You can win in most soft games and then build up to play more hands with time.

See our course pre-flop day for more on this and good luck!

 

[Collin Moshman]

I am posting this on all the Ask Me Anything forum to try to see if there is a consensus or difference of opinion among the pros answering questions on CardsChat.
*********************************


I have been looking for information about considerations for re-buys, add-ons, late registration. Almost all comments in forums seem to be in favor of add-ons, with logic like "Why would you give your opponents an advantage over you?"

I will preface this with my bias. I don't like the idea of any of them and would prefer if none of them existed. If I had my way every tournament would be a freeze-out, but that based on a style preference. I feel that you can apply a little more pressure if the villain can't re-buy ad nauseum.

I understand that re-buys and add-ons help the casino meet guarantees. (It is frustrating when you think you have found a bargain tournament, and re-buys are filling out that guarantee without increasing the prize pool.)

I understand that in live tournaments re-buys, and add-ons make sense because you have to travel to the casino and getting knocked out and going home empty handed sucks.

I play exclusively online. There is always another tournament.

Re-buys only make sense to me if you are knocked out in the very early rounds. Any later than that and you are just buying into another tournament at a significant disadvantage. This amounts to late registration, which only makes sense to me if you think you have a monstrous edge, and it is worth your while to save a little time by not playing the early rounds.

Add-ons are a weird concept to me. You are effectively chopping your return on investment in half. If the add-on, significantly improves your odds of winning, I can see where it might make sense, however, the ones I have played don't usually have a huge amount of chips; usually x1-x2 the chips of the initial buy-in. A couple levels and it will be insignificant. For it to be useful you have increase it exponentially, if you are willing to play that way, it may be more useful to attack peoples' add-on with your short stack.

This got a little verbose. It seems that re-buys, add-ons, and late registration are -EV options, because they diminish your ROI. They are only useful with regard to time considerations, or if the tournament has some value to you other than pure monetary reward.

Am I being naive here? Is there a magic formula for determining when to get an add-on?Or should I just keep going for extreme long shots by refusing re-buys and add-ons?

Thanks!

You're right Jirasuonna, many people definitely think that rebuys and add-ons are better than they actually are!

If you're paying the same amount for extra chips, like $5 for 1500 chips and $5 for another 1500 chips, mathematically that's a bad deal since chips decline in value. It's only worth it if weak players have 3000 chips and you want to cover them (which is the case in many low-stakes rebuys).

The add-on is usually more chips. If $5 gets you 5000 chips and then $5 gets you a 10,000 chip add-on, you should usually take it of course.

But the key thing is that you want to focus on making good investments and maximizing ROI instead of just making it more likely you win at any cost. Consider the EV of each rebuy and add-on decision and you can do much better than opponents who blindly rebuy/addon no matter what

 

[jirasuonna]

The add-on is usually more chips. If $5 gets you 5000 chips and then $5 gets you a 10,000 chip add-on, you should usually take it of course.

Thanks!

I played a tournament today where the add-on was 10,000 and initial chip stack was 3000. I was right around 3000 chips when it was time for the add on. Early in the tournament I was in the top 10% and was really excited because it was a $40,000 guarantee, then 700 more people registered and my chip stack dwindled down. I looked at the add-on offer forlornly because it was $30. I did a freeroll satellite to a regular satellite to get there. There was no way this add-on fit into proper bankroll management. The top prize was just under $9000, and while I saw there were clearly terrible players, I suspected I was going to outclassed pretty soon. I got crushed. *sigh* Back to $0.55 SNGs.

 

[Katie Dozier]

Thanks!

I played a tournament today where the add-on was 10,000 and initial chip stack was 3000. I was right around 3000 chips when it was time for the add on. Early in the tournament I was in the top 10% and was really excited because it was a $40,000 guarantee, then 700 more people registered and my chip stack dwindled down. I looked at the add-on offer forlornly because it was $30. I did a freeroll satellite to a regular satellite to get there. There was no way this add-on fit into proper bankroll management. The top prize was just under $9000, and while I saw there were clearly terrible players, I suspected I was going to outclassed pretty soon. I got crushed. *sigh* Back to $0.55 SNGs.

I’m sorry to hear this, Jirasuonna, that must’ve been very frustrating Better luck next time!

 

[jirasuonna]

I’m sorry to hear this, Jirasuonna, that must’ve been very frustrating Better luck next time!

It wasn't that bad. I wasn't expecting any kind of win. $30+3 is way over current pay grade. The min cash would have been a huge bump for me though.

In the satellite leading to it there were 36 tickets available. 37th paid 20 and 38th paid 10. I wanted one of those. I tried to bust out, but I didn't want to end with nothing. When my made stack started shoving right on the bubble I couldn't get any action from a bigger stack, and I kept beating the small stacks. (They may have had the same idea.)

Although, last time I freeroll satellited into a big tournament I tried the same thing, was disappointed I couldn't get the leftover money. I ended 7th in the tournament for $97 and change. However, for that one I was able to pick a freezeout tournament with my ticket and I think that helped.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Just in case anyone hasn't seen yet, we now have threads devoted to each day of our 30 day course on Becoming a Winning Poker Player. Of course, you're also more than welcome to keep posting any questions here for us as well!

 

[Katie Dozier]

I ended 7th in the tournament for $97 and change. However, for that one I was able to pick a freezeout tournament with my ticket and I think that helped.

Well that's good at least! Nice work

 

[Bobbybones1950]

Thankyou Katie and Collin

I Just wanted to thank you for the 30 day course. I have finished it but am going back over it one more time.. I've posted a hand that prior to this course I would have folded early on but after your course I saw the value in continuing.

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/4qrTcLK

 

[Collin Moshman]

Thanks Bobby! So satisfying to beat a set like that on the river

The early streets are pretty close here, but you make a great play checking the river to him since he has the betting lead in the hand. Well done!

 

[Jemmer]

Sit-n-Go Strategy

Katie I am a long time MTT Lover! But it seems like SNGs are a quicker way of playing smaller Tourneys, while waiting for MTTs! So I am trying to find all the SNG Strategy I can right now!!! And would GREATLY appreciate any suggestions!!! Thanks!!!

 

[Katie Dozier]

Katie I am a long time MTT Lover! But it seems like SNGs are a quicker way of playing smaller Tourneys, while waiting for MTTs! So I am trying to find all the SNG Strategy I can right now!!! And would GREATLY appreciate any suggestions!!! Thanks!!!

Hi Jemmer! SNGs are a great way to gain experience rapidly--I started out in them myself I'd recommend pouring a lot of your studying into ICM since it is crucial for SNGs and is also extremely important in MTTs.

In case you haven't seen it, Collin and I cover ICM in our CardsChat course on day 14 in both the course video and the course ebook which could help as well. https://www.cardschat.com/become-a-winning-poker-player/

Best of luck in your SNGs!

 

[liuouhgkres]

I am posting this on all the Ask Me Anything forum to try to see if there is a consensus or difference of opinion among the pros answering questions on CardsChat.
*********************************


I have been looking for information about considerations for re-buys, add-ons, late registration. Almost all comments in forums seem to be in favor of add-ons, with logic like "Why would you give your opponents an advantage over you?"

I will preface this with my bias. I don't like the idea of any of them and would prefer if none of them existed. If I had my way every tournament would be a freeze-out, but that based on a style preference. I feel that you can apply a little more pressure if the villain can't re-buy ad nauseum.

I understand that re-buys and add-ons help the casino meet guarantees. (It is frustrating when you think you have found a bargain tournament, and re-buys are filling out that guarantee without increasing the prize pool.)

I understand that in live tournaments re-buys, and add-ons make sense because you have to travel to the casino and getting knocked out and going home empty handed sucks.

I play exclusively online. There is always another tournament.

Re-buys only make sense to me if you are knocked out in the very early rounds. Any later than that and you are just buying into another tournament at a significant disadvantage. This amounts to late registration, which only makes sense to me if you think you have a monstrous edge, and it is worth your while to save a little time by not playing the early rounds.

Add-ons are a weird concept to me. You are effectively chopping your return on investment in half. If the add-on, significantly improves your odds of winning, I can see where it might make sense, however, the ones I have played don't usually have a huge amount of chips; usually x1-x2 the chips of the initial buy-in. A couple levels and it will be insignificant. For it to be useful you have increase it exponentially, if you are willing to play that way, it may be more useful to attack peoples' add-on with your short stack.

This got a little verbose. It seems that re-buys, add-ons, and late registration are -EV options, because they diminish your ROI. They are only useful with regard to time considerations, or if the tournament has some value to you other than pure monetary reward.

Am I being naive here? Is there a magic formula for determining when to get an add-on?Or should I just keep going for extreme long shots by refusing re-buys and add-ons?

Thanks!

Rebuys are always slightly -EV, however sometimes it makes sense to rebuy early, because you can stack fish with big stack. If you see spewy fish with huge stack, you should rebuy and try to stack him.

Addons are slightly different. You can actually calculate addons real value by dividing prize pool to total chips in tourney. However, as you say, there is a formula. Because of ICM, the more chips you have the less valuable your new chips become. For that reason, if you have huge stack, you shouldn't add on. Short stacked though, you definitely should add on.

 

[jirasuonna]

Rebuys are always slightly -EV, however sometimes it makes sense to rebuy early, because you can stack fish with big stack. If you see spewy fish with huge stack, you should rebuy and try to stack him.

Addons are slightly different. You can actually calculate addons real value by dividing prize pool to total chips in tourney. However, as you say, there is a formula. Because of ICM, the more chips you have the less valuable your new chips become. For that reason, if you have huge stack, you shouldn't add on. Short stacked though, you definitely should add on.

It seems like it that would be difficult without knowing how many people are going to add-on. You can take the average stack and multiply it by the number of remaining people to determine the effect re-buys, but I have no idea what percentage of people will elect to add-on.

 

[danydidi]

dany

i always play cash game or tournament . what do you think ? what better to play ?

 

[Collin Moshman]

Jirasuonna, You're right -- there are definitely situations where rebuys are +EV, including when they're rakeless and you've busted, as well as structures when you can rebuy close to ITM. And Liuou's point is correct too that mathematically, if you pay say $3 for 1500 chips and then $3 for another 1500 chips, you're getting a worse deal on that second $3 you spend.

Danydidi, I prefer tournaments personally but a lot prefer cash -- try both and see which one you prefer

 

[Bobbybones1950]

Call or Fold

Getting close to Crunch Time I've been tightening up somewhat I have 55 should I have called? Should I have Raised preflop. I limped looking to set mine

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/4qrDffg


The player to my left is Evan Jarvis (Gripsed) I have his range as A 10 or some broadway possibly 88+ I just didn't think he would Shove all in on a bluff.

:boxing:

 

[Katie Dozier]

Getting close to Crunch Time I've been tightening up somewhat I have 55 should I have called? Should I have Raised preflop. I limped looking to set mine

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/4qrDffg


The player to my left is Evan Jarvis (Gripsed) I have his range as A 10 or some broadway possibly 88+ I just didn't think he would Shove all in on a bluff.

:boxing:

Because of the ante, to me this is a fairly close decision between shoving and folding. The starting pot is 1,500. I often like to adjust for the ante by multiplying the starting pot by .66 in order to put it in the terms of pre-ante—when the big blind is normally 2/3 the starting pot. Here, that’s just under a 1k big blind.

A good general rule for set-mining is that we want at least 20-to-1 implied odds to do so (I.e. the effective stack is at least twenty times the bet we have to call) and additionally we’re looking for spots where we’re likely going to be able to get to the flop without any additional raises. Given the size of the pot, I would opt to go ahead and shove here.

Hope this helps

 

[Katie Dozier]

Getting close to Crunch Time I've been tightening up somewhat I have 55 should I have called? Should I have Raised preflop. I limped looking to set mine

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/4qrDffg


The player to my left is Evan Jarvis (Gripsed) I have his range as A 10 or some broadway possibly 88+ I just didn't think he would Shove all in on a bluff.

:boxing:

Because of the ante, to me this is a fairly close decision between shoving and folding. The starting pot is 1,500. I often like to adjust for the ante by multiplying the starting pot by .66 in order to put it in the terms of pre-ante—when the big blind is normally 2/3 the starting pot. Here, that’s just under a 1k big blind.

A good general rule for set-mining is that we want at least 20-to-1 implied odds to do so (I.e. the effective stack is at least twenty times the size of the bet we have to call) and additionally we’re looking for spots where we’re likely going to be able to get to the flop without any additional raises. Given the size of the pot, I would opt to go ahead and shove here.

Hope this helps

 

[DoIHaveAFlush]

Hi Colin hi Katie,

Congrats to the very nice poker tutorial! I wanted to ask you about playing with small pocket pairs such as 22, 33 or 44..obviuosly it depends from different factors such as stage of the game, stacks, opponent opening ranges etc. But in general, how do you advise playing with small pocket pairs preflop?

Cheers, DihaF

 

[Marcelobp]

Hi collin and katie.
I have one question about control your bankroll. Actually my bankroll is in 5 dollars. WHats tournaments recomends to me play with regularity?