KK : late stages of a satelitte

koadyawn

koadyawn

Rock Star
Satelitte to the sunday 100k. Theres about 3 players left till the ticket pays and I get KK, Theres a raise in front that commits me and with 3 players left with top 22 placed being paid, I was in 17th and had such a hard time laying it down. :eek: Just curious, what would you guys do in this spot?


poker stars, $2.20 Buy-in (600/1,200 blinds, 75 ante) NL Hold'em Tourney, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

BB: 13,429 (11.2 bb)
UTG+1: 8,965 (7.5 bb)
MP1: 20,145 (16.8 bb)
MP2: 22,359 (18.6 bb)
MP3: 1,120 (0.9 bb)
Hero (CO): 2,145 (1.8 bb)
BTN: 975 (0.8 bb)
SB: 6,060 (5.1 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with K
club.gif
K
heart.gif

2 folds, MP2 raises to 6,000, 5 folds

Results: 3,600 pot
MP2 mucked and won 3,600 (2,325 net)
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
depends almost entirely on stacks/positions on the other two tables.
 
Worak

Worak

Legend
Hard to say without the stacks table 2&3

If the tables are balanced there should be 2x3 = 6 having 1 BB.

They are all in within the next 7 hands - if 50% bust you place.

I'd fold.

And let the time run down real slow on the next hands.


In mid Tourney I'd call most of the time unless I had seen his AA somehow...

Now might not be a very brave move. No good poker-play either

Since you don't need to win this tourney but need to place only there's no point in taking a risk here, the blinds will do the work for you with a higher probabilty.

(have not worked it out mathematically though so I have to rely on mmmm experience.)

Slug them down....
 
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kadafi

kadafi

Rock Star
Hard to say without the stacks table 2&3

If the tables are balanced there should be 2x3 = 6 having 1 BB.

They are all in within the next 7 hands - if 50% bust you place.

I'd fold.

And let the time run down real slow on the next hands.


In mid Tourney I'd call most of the time unless I had seen his AA somehow...

Now might not be a very brave move. No good poker-play either

Since you don't need to win this tourney but need to place only there's no point in taking a risk here, the blinds will do the work for you with a higher probabilty.

(have not worked it out mathematically though so I have to rely on mmmm experience.)

Slug them down....

What do you mean most of the time?? Mid tourny i push every time.
 
Makwa

Makwa

Undesirable Predator
Details dont matter. If you get KK at any time, eat your cards and ask for more...
 
tpb221

tpb221

Chasing Gutshots
Without knowing the other three tables, I think you have to call here. You are way ahead here considering his stack size and calling range. If the other 3 on the bubble were as in bad shape as the btn I might think about folding, but remember, this IS the best hand you will see to the end of the tourney.
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

plays poker on hard mode
yeah, basically it's a call unless there are a couple stacks at the other table that are in reaaallly bad shape and you think you can most likely wait it out. if you're pretty sure you can't wait it out until the seat for the next 5 hands or so, you gotta put it in because you have less than 2 big blinds
 
TPC

TPC

Legend
Everyone hates to be the bubble!! But, if you play tournament poker long enough you will be the bubble or close to it more than once. Your stack has you sitting in 17th place, you have three people to go untill pay day, and you are five spots deep into the pay, as it stood before the hand. If you want to play it safe and you don't think the blinds and the ante will cut too much into your stack I would let KK go (if you want to play it safe). Although, if you let KK go, you should basically just sit out till the remaining three people are gone.

This move can wind up making you the bubble if some of the people behind you end up doubling up through the larger chip stacks, or eliminating the smaller ones!! I would have atleast called and hoped for a good flop. Hope this helps!
 
T

THGE

Enthusiast
Increase 3x. See the flop.
If the flop shows an A, you can fold.
Do not be afraid, play your hand, win and ensure your place.
 
1MoreCard

1MoreCard

Enthusiast
Am I missing something? How can he call, see a flop and fold if an Ace hits or come over top, (I assume this was a joke), with only 1.8 BB left.

If you think you can last 4 more hands until you pay your Blinds or outlast 3 players before your blinds come, then fold.

At 1.8 BB's, I think you have to get your chips in. If you had a couple laps around the table left in your stack, then a fold is fine.

By posting, I might assume wrong, but it looks like you folded and blinded out, missing the seat?
 
SavagePenguin

SavagePenguin

Put the win in penguin
Assuming that winning with K/K now will guarantee you the prize, the question comes down to, "How percentage of the time can I fold my way to a prize here, and is that greater or less than my chances of winning with K/K?"

It's a probability thing. Here's the important stuff:
3 need to knocked out for you to win.
You have 2,145 in the cutoff.
With 600/1,200 blinds and 75 antes
You'll pay that 75 ante 4 times before the BB hits ($300).
You'll have about 500 after posting the BB.
You'll be all-in with any two cards in the SB.

That's six hands. 3 people need to go out in six hands.

MP3 will be force all-in the hand before you are forced in. He *should* be challenged by several people at the table.

Both you and the button will be force all-in on the 6th hand, but you will have more chips, so assuming you both lose you will beat him.

Now what you fail to specify is the state of the people at the other tables. But with your numbers we can determine that.
You are in 17th with 22 getting pair and 3 to-the-money. That means there are 25 players, or 8 in worse shape than you.

Since you have relatively good seating just about all of them are going to be all-in ahead of you. And those that are all-in on the same hand as you will lose if you both lose, because you'll have a bigger chip stack. And some of those 8 will probably have to survive all-in's twice.
Also, people are stupid and I often see medium stacks make some terrible all-in plays when they get something like A/Q and then they get stacked by the big stack who calls with K/J and pairs the board. So you're not just trying to outlast 8 players, you're probably against a ten to twelve people who are liable to shove.

In my opinion the odds of 3/8 people going out before you in that situation is greater than K/K's chances against the opener.

K/K will win there maybe 75% of the time. But I really I see this game ending *before* those sixth hand forces you all-in about 90% of the time.
Plus you still have a chance of winning hand #6 and staying in until the BB hits you, which is a virtual guarantee.

Of course, that being said, I'd have a hard time folding a pretty hand like K/K or A/A. I guarantee I fold Q/Q here every time.
With K/K, if the opener was betting every pot I don't know if I could resist shoving. If he seeded pretty solid (IE, likely to have an ace) I'd grumble a little bit and fold.

If hand-for-hand hadn't started yet I'd be taking my sweet time to make decisions as well. I might also start taking time depending on when the blinds go up again.
 
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H

heyyou01

Enthusiast
Satelitte to the sunday 100k. Theres about 3 players left till the ticket pays and I get KK, Theres a raise in front that commits me and with 3 players left with top 22 placed being paid, I was in 17th and had such a hard time laying it down. :eek: Just curious, what would you guys do in this spot?


Poker Stars, $2.20 Buy-in (600/1,200 blinds, 75 ante) NL Hold'em Tourney, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

BB: 13,429 (11.2 bb)
UTG+1: 8,965 (7.5 bb)
MP1: 20,145 (16.8 bb)
MP2: 22,359 (18.6 bb)
MP3: 1,120 (0.9 bb)
Hero (CO): 2,145 (1.8 bb)
BTN: 975 (0.8 bb)
SB: 6,060 (5.1 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with K
club.gif
K
heart.gif

2 folds, MP2 raises to 6,000, 5 folds

Results: 3,600 pot
MP2 mucked and won 3,600 (2,325 net)
M


maybe he was just being a chip leader bully trying to eliminate as much people as he could so this is a hard one I would of pushed and took my chances the worst case is AA,but wat are the odds of that
 
bubbasbestbabe

bubbasbestbabe

Suckout Queen
Shove the Ks all day long. Since when does anyone fold Ks in a tourney PF to the big stack steal?
 
mczilla

mczilla

Enthusiast
at this point in the tourney I normally open all tables, checking for short stacks and sitters. If I can fold to the to the prize I will, if I'm in doubt the KK is a shove, or I wait for the position w/passive players behind and shove for the blind steal.
also, if a short stack is on my table I will check the time it takes for the blinds to be raised and lag or act faster so they go past me. In hopes that it will add pressure to them to push w/ a worse hand.
It is always good when you have a maniac at the tables too
 
V

viking999

Visionary
It would be a good idea to check the other short stacks' positions. Since you're in the cutoff, the majority of them are going to be in blind before you. Some players with more chips that you may be all-in blind before you, as well. And there's also the chance of medium to big stacks pulling something stupid, like reraising all-in with less than AA against a bigger stack's raise.

I'm not one who normally advocates dumping monsters preflop when short stacked near the satellite bubble. However, in this case there are so many microstacks that dropping KK is the right thing to do. I think your chance of being able to fold into a seat is very high because of the large number of players who are guaranteed to be all-in before you.
 
C

cardsDontMatter

Rock Star
I am clapping my hands here.

The MP2 raise is not meant for you; it's a positional bet to the SB and BB. SB has to commit his stack and the BB has to put a large % of his stack at risk to see the flop. It's a steal.

Shove and pray they all come with you. Fire up another $2 satellite if they suck out on you.
 
nomasburros

nomasburros

Rock Star
my thought here is to either go all in or fold.....only two choices you really have in this position....i personally go all in....
 
P

pkrook

Rock Star
Great hand...

to have late in a tourney. Ive seen it played so many ways. Nonetheless,
if its still the best hand on the river...oh well you know the rest. :)
 
KardKlub

KardKlub

Visionary
I Think your not going to get a better chance to double up or even triple up, because when you call your stack size is so small the BB will also call with a hand.

How much is the gamble with KK when you look at the fact your only going to last one more lap of the table.

I hope you qualified after you laid it down.

I assume you didn't seen as you wrote this post.
 
F

fatnestor

Enthusiast
it all depends on you stack and that was a professional play there, laying KK down but it all depend on the table , your read of the player. I have also laid down KK a few time to cash out in a tournament.
 
S

Skidmark

Rock Star
if you feel you can make the money folding all the way do it and take your time and time out every hand. otherwise call.
 
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
M


maybe he was just being a chip leader bully trying to eliminate as much people as he could so this is a hard one I would of pushed and took my chances the worst case is AA,but wat are the odds of that
about 1 in 24 times will you be up against AA when holding KK which makes this an easy call as a big stack will raise most PP's and any strong ace.
Call and be glad to see QQ or weaker.

FWIW, I had posted this without reading anything past the quoted post
 
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