A7 Suited, Button

royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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Final Table of a $2.25 180 Person SNG, 4 remaining.

Villain constantly bets out pot sized bets on the flop after a pre flop raise.

Original read was TAG but after losing a couple large pots villain becomes very LAG and executes this play more and more often.

full tilt poker Game #4235037423: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (32116265), Table 3 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:09:15 ET - 2007/11/20
Seat 2: royalburrito24 (58,163)
Seat 5: feosapo (58,768)
Seat 8: 13pairs (86,281)
Seat 9: Blackthorne (66,788)
royalburrito24 antes 300
feosapo antes 300
13pairs antes 300
Blackthorne antes 300
feosapo posts the small blind of 1,200
13pairs posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to royalburrito24 [7d Ad]
Blackthorne raises to 4,800 (Very very common move by villain)
royalburrito24 has 15 seconds left to act
royalburrito24 (Raise, Call, or Fold?)
 
W

William Martin

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Lol. There is nothing more to say. It's a very clear cut situation ;)
 
Alon Ipser

Alon Ipser

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I like the idea of reraising here against a LAG player but don't know if it the right play with the blinds yet to play. I'll be interested to see what others say.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Lol. There is nothing more to say. I think it's a very clear cut situation ;)

fyp

A7s is a pretty strong hand four-handed, especially if villain is taking shots at the blinds like this as often as you say he is.

We're sitting on a pretty awkward stack size - anything from like 18 to 35k and I'm happily shoving this, but we're risking too much with a 58k push. I probably reraise to 16-20k and fold to a reraise/shove.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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This is what happens next


Dealt to royalburrito24 [7d Ad]
Blackthorne raises to 4,800
royalburrito24 has 15 seconds left to act
royalburrito24 calls 4,800
feosapo folds
13pairs calls 2,400
*** FLOP *** [Kd 8s 6d]
13pairs checks
Blackthorne bets 16,800 (pot sized) (Every. Single. Time.)
royalburrito24 ???
 
FlopDeezNutz

FlopDeezNutz

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PREFLOP:
I would not make this call. You are short stacked at the table, and simply making a call in this position you are risking too much of your stack on a marginal hand. This is either a push/fold situation, and i'd fold here. No sense putting your stack at risk on a marginal hand. But since you called, that is the lesser of all evils with this hand.

FLOP:
I'm not excited about having to call this bet with a drawing hand. I'd fold here. If you decide to play the hand here, you have to push all in, and you would likely get called because villian is likely sitting on AK or better. Why risk your stack with a drawing hand that wouldn't even hold up if you hit top pair but missed your draw?
 
Last edited:
belladonna05

belladonna05

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fyp

A7s is a pretty strong hand four-handed, especially if villain is taking shots at the blinds like this as often as you say he is.

We're sitting on a pretty awkward stack size - anything from like 18 to 35k and I'm happily shoving this, but we're risking too much with a 58k push. I probably reraise to 16-20k and fold to a reraise/shove.

What he said:D

This is what happens next


Dealt to royalburrito24 [7d Ad]
Blackthorne raises to 4,800
royalburrito24 has 15 seconds left to act
royalburrito24 calls 4,800
feosapo folds
13pairs calls 2,400
*** FLOP *** [Kd 8s 6d]
13pairs checks
Blackthorne bets 16,800 (pot sized) (Every. Single. Time.)
royalburrito24 ???

Now your in a positon where I, not having reraised him would almost certainly fold, I'm quite the chicken to a bet like that :) .
 
W

William Martin

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I don't see how anybody can be suggesting anything other than a fold. Even if he has nothing, you have nothing also. You're getting your money in in terrible shape.

What do you think he has? Small pocket pair? An Ace (in which case it's a lottery over who's got the good kicker)? Why are you going to want to get all of your chips in here?

Fair enough, if you want to push with this hand with the blinds yet to act, but to re-raise, or even worse - just call, with this awful hand is just stupidity in my opinon.

Be the first into the pot or have a premium hand to re-raise or trap with. If you are a skilled player, then you don't want to be getting your money with this type of gamble.

It's not cost you anything to enter the hand, so just let it go!!!!
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

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Any answer to this question that doesn't mention stack sizes is wrong, bad, or both.
 
S

Shandy

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Preflop
Personally i reraise, A7s, four handed, against a LAG opponent who opened with a minraise, is a strong hand. What decent hands open with a minraise here- not many that i see- apart from AA, KK- but i think more often than not, it is a pretty weak holding, taking a weak stab at the blinds, especially since you said he had loosen after losing a few pots, this does seem like a very tilty move. So i think you have his range crushed, a raise to about 22000 seems about right, folding to a shove by the blinds- if he has really loosen up after losing a few pots, i probably call a shove by the OR.
Flop
You have flopped the nutflush draw, so have at least 8 outs to the nuts (the 8d is not for the nuts), but really i think we can say you have an average of 11 outs here- 9 flush cards- and we will count 2 Aces. Now since we know what villians action will be before he does it, his range does not narrow any, so basically if he is ahead, we have about a 44% chance of winning this hand if it gets to showdown, combine that with the percentage of times he folds- i m pretty sure this is a clear cut shove.
Now if he didnt continuation bet pot sized evrytime, i think that it was to be a fold. Also i am not really that worried about the big blind as not many hands which can call your shove are in his range after he just called preflop.
shandy
 
W

William Martin

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lol. It's nice analysis - still seems totally uneccesary. All of this uncertainty - putting your tournament life on the line because you can't fold ace-rag. A-7 is not a monster in any circumstances. It becomes a "big hand" in heads-up play, but it's still not a monster.

How many hands are beating this hand? A hell of a lot. What are the chances of you being dominated? About 50/50. Fold - let him have the blinds (they are not even your blinds!!!!!!!!) - find a better spot and ensure you are ahead when you get your chips involved in a pot.

Eeek - this is so frustrating!! Why such bad advice!!!
 
Wild Rivers

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This is a good example of how a marginal hand can get you in to a situation that's more like making sausage (a very nasty looking process) than playing poker. I agree with those that would have folded preflop, but given that you called to see this ugly ass flop and villian predictably jumps his pot sized bet, there are two factors to consider:
1. The big blind has indeed checked, but he's also the big stack by a considerable margin. If anybody's in a position to eat this clown alive with a big reraise it's him, not you.
2. Assume for a minute that villian has the goods. What do you think his play would be? If he's THAT aggressive and determined to knock this down with top pair or better, wouldn't he push?

That said, I'd fold to give the big blind a chance to execute his check raise if that's what he's gonna do. After all, if you call, big blind is the one who's REALLY in a position to humble both you and villian should he do that.

Fold....FAST!
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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lol. It's nice analysis - still seems totally uneccesary. All of this uncertainty - putting your tournament life on the line because you can't fold ace-rag. A-7 is not a monster in any circumstances. It becomes a "big hand" in heads-up play, but it's still not a monster.

How many hands are beating this hand? A hell of a lot. What are the chances of you being dominated? About 50/50. Fold - let him have the blinds (they are not even your blinds!!!!!!!!) - find a better spot and ensure you are ahead when you get your chips involved in a pot.

Eeek - this is so frustrating!! Why such bad advice!!!

its 4 handed, A7suited is not a marginal hand against this player


pay attention please.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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also, i clearly do not have the pot odds to just call the flop bet, so it is either a push fold situation. Flat calling is the worst play I could make here on the flop

but whats wrong with pushing?
 
bubbasbestbabe

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You lost this hand by not reraising preflop. You are playing to win. A7 suited in this position is giving you the oppoturnity to advance. There are times when you have to take a chance. And you know this guy is pushing the table around. A reraise by you takes control of the situation. Since you didn't raise PF, you gave control to the villian. Fold and wait.

AND LEARN!
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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I admit this was my first MTT final table ever, (i am horrible at MTT's) so i did not assess the situation well. I normally play 9 player SNGs but i decided if i want to get good at MTTs, i will do it in these 180 person SNGs.

I ended up shoving on the flop, bad move, unless i hit then i feel like a genius, but i missed. villain had A8 mid pair, which surprised me because he or she insta called.

Full Tilt poker game #4235037423: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (32116265), Table 3 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:09:15 ET - 2007/11/20
Seat 2: royalburrito24 (58,163)
Seat 5: feosapo (58,768)
Seat 8: 13pairs (86,281)
Seat 9: Blackthorne (66,788)
royalburrito24 antes 300
feosapo antes 300
13pairs antes 300
Blackthorne antes 300
feosapo posts the small blind of 1,200
13pairs posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to royalburrito24 [7d Ad]
Blackthorne raises to 4,800
royalburrito24 has 15 seconds left to act
royalburrito24 calls 4,800
feosapo folds
13pairs calls 2,400
*** FLOP *** [Kd 8s 6d]
13pairs checks
Blackthorne bets 16,800
royalburrito24 raises to 53,063, and is all in
13pairs folds
Blackthorne calls 36,263
royalburrito24 shows [7d Ad]
Blackthorne shows [As 8h]

*** TURN *** [Kd 8s 6d] [6c]
*** RIVER *** [Kd 8s 6d 6c] [5h] :( :( :( :( :(
royalburrito24 shows a pair of Sixes
Blackthorne shows two pair, Eights and Sixes
Blackthorne wins the pot (122,926) with two pair, Eights and Sixes
royalburrito24 stands up
 
dj11

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Put me in the reraise camp, and no wimpy min reraise either. Make a statement early and his 4800 chips are yours. Reraise to a nice round 15K. Then call his shove.

He has a nice stack, but I wouldn't think he would put it in jeopardy with his 86 PF. You don't want to let him get post flop.
 
jaketrevvor

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I say fold PF coz I think your A7 is up against A8 or something..:)
 
NineLions

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Just throwing in another vote for Chuck's advice preflop, Shandy's advice on the flop.


Congrats on getting to the FT, btw.
 
WVHillbilly

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I'll gladly play Ax if I'm first in. That's not the case here. AJ+, I reraise, anything less and he can have my 300 ante.
 
ChuckTs

ChuckTs

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Then you, sir, are weak-tight. If someone is taking stabs at blinds as often as the OP has said, then our A7s is a solid favourite over his range.
 
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