I colluded and got caught by Full Tilt

[Pothole]

I think your browser may be developing tourettes

That's the result of a copy/paste of the email page which I deleted. Looks like imageshack is the pits too since they changed format. tut tut, why 'fix' something that isn't broken???

 

[fletchdad]

Have any of you ever played a hand differently than you otherwise would when you realized the guy who raised was either a friend or someone you play with regularly?
.

I keep loads of info on people I play, so if I find my self betting someone I have notes on, (someone I play with regularly) my note will sometimes greatly influence the bets I make as opposed to an opponent I have no read on.

But if what you mean is
"Do you play nicer against friends?
Are your plays not as aggressive?
You would play differently against a regular, depending on if was your friend or not?"........

I dont
They are
I would not

 

[Divebitch]

s-s-s-s-story change! Earlier, you checked down pots with each other. Now you just avoided him preflop because he's a tight player.

Not at all. The OP probably spoke in general terms for the sake of brevity. But there are many shades of gray.

First of all my story is straight i tried to avoid pots with rfeely and if I got in them I would try not to bet against him. Like bet sometimes but not push all in or check it down. But if he bet i figured he had he best hand if I was in the pot. FTP what do u think is bull shit? my story or that they really just kept the money?

And you'd possibly contend that it was card dependent. Hopefully you might fold a a JQos or low PP but not an AA or KK. Again, I don't know what you did, to what degree, and how often, but I'll give you some benefit of the doubt. You might have had a suspicious 'familiar' conversation with your friend that got reported, IDK.

I'm a little concerned that this group seems to be so willing to convict the OP without any true regard to his story, much less a willingness to look in the mirror.

Have any of you ever played a hand differently than you otherwise would when you realized the guy who raised was either a friend or someone you play with regularly? I've seen threads regarding "CC invasions" that obviously pit acquaintances, if not friends, against one another. I've also witnessed CC and non-CC players fold to a short stack near the bubble when any two cards should have called (sometimes even thanking each other or discussing the "charity" in the chat).

I'm not saying that the OP is innoncent, but I guess I'm just not so quick to judge. I also don't understand how FT can wait so long before taking action and still take all of his money, if indeed his admitted violations, minor or otherwise, were well before he made any money.

Personally I played in a few freerolls long, long ago in which I suggested to other players that we trade the blinds instead of driving each other out. So we each might triple up against the autofolders instead of beating each other up. Now I know better, and would never chat about that again, much less fold AA when it was my turn to sacrifice a blind. Back then my BR might have been $20. Now that it's $2000 does FT have the right to confiscate all of my money?

Maybe they have the right, but that doesn't make it right. Think about it.

+1, all good stuff. I've only 1 friend that I seek out to play at Omaha HL, but it's still infrequently. I don't check down the nuts. In fact, if he raises, I might come over the top, letting him know this one is mine, instead of trapping like I might do if he had folded. Is it wrong? Maybe. But ya see, it's not checking down or staying out of a pot with a good hand. We've taken each other money, not often. But it's not by any stretch what I would consider collusion, IMHO, maybe not everybody's. No outside chat of any kind. Not play at the same table? No way. We joke, flirt, talk a little smack, and totally enjoy each other's company.

Have also traded the blinds with seemingly willing participants, and not always each hand if I got something real good. But it's always unspoken. Not dumb enough to put it in the chat box. Almost that dumb, but not quite.

 

[KyleJRM]

What is to prevent a poker site from keeping a book on each of us, and finding some minor indiscretion that is technically against the rules? It could be anything from a single instance of folding AA preflop, using inappropriate language, speaking a language other than English, discussing a hand in play, or something worse. Then what is to prevent that site from monitoring our bankrolls and deciding at any point, weeks or months after the indiscretion, to confiscate all our funds because we "cheated".

Self-interest prevents them from doing that. If they started abusing the rules like that, nobody plays there anymore and the golden goose of rake is dead.

 

[dj11]

I've got an issue with the 'soft play' thing.

Example, I flop the nuts and a lagtard starts trying to steal the pot from me. Or suppose he flopped 2nd nuts and is not really trying to steal but is making every effort to build the pot. Do I reraise ?

Hell no. I let him spew to me.

This could be seen, easily, as villain here dumping to me, and because I don't reraise, I could be accused and convicted of soft play.

This happens fairly often, a few times a week maybe.

Soft play is a nebulous accusation IMO.

OP only has 10 posts that I can find, and none seem to be the complete email record, = unfortunate.
I agree that the problem he originally posed is valid; Once FT shuts you down it seems impossible to get any review of why. Simply a phone number is not an unreasonable request.

Most of the rest of you CC'rs seem to be enjoying a feeding frenzy. I'm a bit disappointed.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

I've got an issue with the 'soft play' thing.

Example, I flop the nuts and a lagtard starts trying to steal the pot from me. Or suppose he flopped 2nd nuts and is not really trying to steal but is making every effort to build the pot. Do I reraise ?

Hell no. I let him spew to me.

This could be seen, easily, as villain here dumping to me, and because I don't reraise, I could be accused and convicted of soft play.

This happens fairly often, a few times a week maybe.

Soft play is a nebulous accusation IMO.

How can that be seen as chip dumping? You have the nuts, he has the second nuts.

Chip dumping shows up when your bluffs are a little too successful. i.,e. he has the second nuts gets 3/4 of his stack in and then folds whilst you have air. This happens more than once!

 

[Poker Orifice]

Let me pose the following to you, without being specific. Bear in mind that this is purely hypothetical, and I have no evidence or suspicion that any site has or would ever do this.

What is to prevent a poker site from keeping a book on each of us, and finding some minor indiscretion that is technically against the rules? It could be anything from a single instance of folding AA preflop, using inappropriate language, speaking a language other than English, discussing a hand in play, or something worse. Then what is to prevent that site from monitoring our bankrolls and deciding at any point, weeks or months after the indiscretion, to confiscate all our funds because we "cheated".

Yah, this ^ is what they're going to do because they have no clue on how to run a business.... how to build a multi-billion dollar enterprise - a money-making machine?????? Integrity is crucial for any poker site & obviously their actions are for the greater good (the big picture) for the business. Which do you consider to be a better business decision?? >> cheat a guy out of $800... or make the effort to provide a good poker playing environment.... one that has a support staff who's willing to investigate even micro stakes sng cheaters in an effort to provide the best possible online poker playing environment possible. Pretty obv imo.

Noticed OP posting his same initial post on another forum... followed by a bunch of whining comments. Is this his mass effort to try to damage the integrity of Fulltilt?? (because it's doing the opposite imo.... wtg Fulltilt... get rid of them!!!)... or maybe it's just whining hoping for sympathy.. similiar to posting a badbeat.

 

[ateamcrew]

This has been the most well thought out response I have had. Once I realized I had soft played in the past I confessed to it. But it was over a month after they took my money without any type of warning. We werent working a system, just friends who wanted to play poker together. The money we were playing for was pennies to me I didnt care much whether I won or lost the tournament thats y we made side bets.

Every has done what riches just said in the past. If they want to suspend my account for a year or never allow me to play with rfeely FINE! but dont permanantly close my account and steal my money without warning.

I'm a little concerned that this group seems to be so willing to convict the OP without any true regard to his story, much less a willingness to look in the mirror.

Have any of you ever played a hand differently than you otherwise would when you realized the guy who raised was either a friend or someone you play with regularly? I've seen threads regarding "CC invasions" that obviously pit acquaintances, if not friends, against one another. I've also witnessed CC and non-CC players fold to a short stack near the bubble when any two cards should have called (sometimes even thanking each other or discussing the "charity" in the chat).

I'm not saying that the OP is innoncent, but I guess I'm just not so quick to judge. I also don't understand how FT can wait so long before taking action and still take all of his money, if indeed his admitted violations, minor or otherwise, were well before he made any money.

Personally I played in a few freerolls long, long ago in which I suggested to other players that we trade the blinds instead of driving each other out. So we each might triple up against the autofolders instead of beating each other up. Now I know better, and would never chat about that again, much less fold AA when it was my turn to sacrifice a blind. Back then my BR might have been $20. Now that it's $2000 does FT have the right to confiscate all of my money?

Maybe they have the right, but that doesn't make it right. Think about it.

 

[Debi]

^^^^ And that is why I have no patience with him or sympathy for him. He is only posting this everywhere for revenge. (and failing miserably lol)

If he would have admitted when it was pointed out to him that he realizes now that what he did was wrong and that FT had every right to confiscate his money and close his account - I would have a lot more respect for him. Everybody makes mistakes - but you need to accept the consequences when it happens and move on.

 

[ateamcrew]

What cking is saying is true. Some of my friends who play says the same thing. Full tilt is like a Gangster. They govern themselves. In places like the US it is Illegal! If you win 20k in a tournament they can choose not to pay you. I was reading about a guy who had 80k stolen from him by full tilt. He is trying to sue but he knows he will prob never see that money.

As far as the emails are concerned I am only allowed 7 posts a day. I posted one email and if someone takes my limit off I will be happy to post the rest. I NEVER CHIP DUMPED for the record and I knew what that was. Nobody reported us bc we never talked to each other in chat. No need if I really wanted to talk to him I could call him or walk over to his room after I was out.

Self-interest prevents them from doing that. If they started abusing the rules like that, nobody plays there anymore and the golden goose of rake is dead.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

This has been the most well thought out response I have had. Once I realized I had soft played in the past I confessed to it. But it was over a month after they took my money without any type of warning. We werent working a system, just friends who wanted to play poker together. The money we were playing for was pennies to me I didnt care much whether I won or lost the tournament thats y we made side bets.

Every has done what riches just said in the past. If they want to suspend my account for a year or never allow me to play with rfeely FINE! but dont permanantly close my account and steal my money without warning.

The warning is the T&C.

Having now read them you agree that you were slow playing and that you broke the T&C.

So why is it you don't think you were warned?

 

[Debi]

Losing more credibility by the minute.

 

[PC69]

Curious to know if the mods are keeping this thread open purely for the LOLZ? If so thanks a bunch..Makes a great way for me to start my saturday morning.. Shower (check). Coffee (check). LOLZ (check). Cool Mods (check) Funny edit by WVHillbilly (????).

 

[onebourbon]

ateamcrew :
The reason I know that no one has been reimbursed is because I became friendly with a few people that I played sit and go's with a bunch of times. I know that at least twice I moneyed while they didnt. My friend has an account so I had them ask those players if they received an email or anything.[/QUOTE]

Hehe....sounds to me like you had more than one friend involved with collusion - oh wait...you guys formed a team - thus your name right?

(oh and the stats....looks like you you guys do better in SNG's than you do in MTT's - wonder why? LMAO)

Good luck with the team eh......guess you'll be starting a new team now? hehe

 

[LombardiStix]

^^^^ And that is why I have no patience with him or sympathy for him. He is only posting this everywhere for revenge. (and failing miserably lol)

If he would have admitted when it was pointed out to him that he realizes now that what he did was wrong and that FT had every right to confiscate his money and close his account - I would have a lot more respect for him. Everybody makes mistakes - but you need to accept the consequences when it happens and move on.

Absolutely agree. You are in an agreement at FT when you sign up to follow their rules or forfeit your earnings and yet you continue to describe them as stealing your money. You GAVE them your money by breaking the contract. I understand you didn't take your actions as serious enough for penalty, but you don't get that option. This is why people need to take contracts and "agreeing to the terms" seriously. KNOW WHAT YOU SIGN UP FOR. Ignorance is not an excuse in the court of law.

by the way... might wanna not use the word team in your name... sadly ironic
Stix

 

[Xavier]

The issue of collusion in these circumstances seems bit grey to me. OP probably broke the rules but I know in live casinos people who are friends do soft play each other.

One time in a live casino tournament close to me this woman first to act pushed all in on a short stack and it was folded round to her husband in BB who promptly shows KK and throws it in the muck letting his wife win the pot.

If the same rules were applied there in the casino as seem to be at FT then this would this be viewed as cheating. yes?

 

[Makwa]

Admitting to soft play by ateamcrew (very unfortunate name, given our opinion of eastern european "timplay" LOL)... is an open admission of a serious infraction... whatever hope you had of redeeming yourselves (I hope your buddy got dinged also) with Tilt is gone, your burnt bridge is now ashes in the water...
Live and learn... emphasis on the "learn..." :icon_geek

 

[KyleJRM]

The issue of collusion in these circumstances seems bit grey to me. OP probably broke the rules but I know in live casinos people who are friends do soft play each other.

One time in a live casino tournament close to me this woman first to act pushed all in on a short stack and it was folded round to her husband in BB who promptly shows KK and throws it in the muck letting his wife win the pot.

If the same rules were applied there in the casino as seem to be at FT then this would this be viewed as cheating. yes?

Yes. That is definitely cheating.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

The issue of collusion in these circumstances seems bit grey to me. OP probably broke the rules but I know in live casinos people who are friends do soft play each other.

One time in a live casino tournament close to me this woman first to act pushed all in on a short stack and it was folded round to her husband in BB who promptly shows KK and throws it in the muck letting his wife win the pot.

If the same rules were applied there in the casino as seem to be at FT then this would this be viewed as cheating. yes?

Taken from Robert's Rules:-

POKER ETIQUETTE

The following actions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or barring a violator:
......

Softplaying by refusing to bet against a certain opponent whenever heads-up.
......


So its grounds for barring in a live casino too.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

Yes. That is definitely cheating.

What if he knew she could only have aces in that spot?

Still cheating?

Where do we draw the line with reads and "softplay"?

 

[onebourbon]

The only time I know when softplaying would be acceptable is when the players are on the bubble and the short stack is allin at yor table - typically the rest of the players "check it down" - this called "Implied Collusion" a totally different circumstance - even then not a word is verbalised for the "Implied Check Down"

 

[Poof]

This is getting ridiculous with the what if this and what if that.
There are a number of us who play together all the time and none of us have been suspended.
Full Tilt would not just do it without an investigation.
Let alone the fact that the OP is not even a real member, in fact had only one post in over a year and just came in here and other forums to bash Full Tilt.
The reason alot of ppl are jumping on the OP is because 9 out of 10 times when a first post (2nd in this instance) looks like this, eventually the facts come out that they were in fact cheating.
Alot of us have seen this pattern often.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

What if he knew she could only have aces in that spot?

Still cheating?

Where do we draw the line with reads and "softplay"?

If there is a player pool of thousands yet you keep sitting down with the same 2 or 3 players and then consistently play hands in a way that would require near telepathic reads; my guess is that you are colluding.

 

[kidkvno1]

Not so, they would of closed the 2nd account.
I had sent FT an email sometime ago, i asked them and told them that their were 2 accounts with the same address and same IP, they said all was fine. As long as we did some stuff. I got one and so does my brother.



The "second account" was my father's account. Which was the one that got shut down. That's why I was informed that the had colsed down my "second account". FT thought I had multi accounts. He didn't know his account got closed until I seen the email and told him.

What I was saying is, sometimes FT makes mistakes, as it did in my father's case. Though if you did nothing wrong and are able to show it they will usually rectify the problem.

That's a fair mistake, we all make mistakes..

First of all my story is straight i tried to avoid pots with rfeely and if I got in them I would try not to bet against him. Like bet sometimes but not push all in or check it down. But if he bet i figured he had he best hand if I was in the pot. FTP what do u think is bull shit? my story or that they really just kept the money?

Again softplay... 2nd 3rd and 4th place would get the money if you got 1st...

I was shocked when you posted on how you cheated.. :boxing:

 

[Stu_Ungar]

The reason alot of ppl are jumping on the OP is because 9 out of 10 times when a first post (2nd in this instance) looks like this, eventually the facts come out that they were in fact cheating.
Alot of us have seen this pattern often.

In the whole time I have been here I have only seen once person join, make a post like this and show that he was in the right. It took a while but FT did give him his money back.

Everyone else has been shown to be cheating. There have been times that people from other boards and even mods form poker sites have heard about someone posting stuff like this and have joined CC just to explain to the world how big a cheater the "innocent victim" is.