I colluded and got caught by Full Tilt

[ateamcrew]

Ok I did not realize that not betting against each other is the meaning of soft playing. In casinos u can willingly ask ur friend if they want to "check it down" which is what I felt we would sometimes do. We never discussed sidebets at the table it was not necessary.

Here is my issue. Other people were warned by full tilt if they suspected them of colluding. ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS ASK US TO NOT PLAY TOGETHER We played together since september NOT CHEATING OR PROFITING! SO THE 800 DOLLARS CANT PAY PEOPLE WE BEAT BECAUSE WE DID NOT BEAT ANYONE.

HERES MY OTHER POINT- We played for what I consider pennies the biggest we ever played was 10 dollar sit and gos... usually 5. Yet as soon as I start playing .50/1 cash games and make some decent money, they shut me down.

The reason I know that no one has been reimbursed is because I became friendly with a few people that I played sit and go's with a bunch of times. I know that at least twice I moneyed while they didnt. My friend has an account so I had them ask those players if they received an email or anything.

 

[tomh7795]

If you ever played in the same sng as me and cheated I'll chop ya head off. Just kidding. Explain this to FTP and see what they can do?

 

[Debi]

It doesn't matter if you won overall or not - what matters is if you ever won in games in which the 2 of you played together - and you did or they would not have confiscated your funds.

And it is silly as hell for you to assume that because 2 random players did not receive refunds that nobody did.

You have played a lot of sng's and a lot of tournaments - and a lot of people got cheated by your soft play. FT will refund those who did.

But you really shouldn't worry about what they do with the money - it is not yours.

 

[TheKAAHK]

Not so, they would of closed the 2nd account.
I had sent FT an email sometime ago, i asked them and told them that their were 2 accounts with the same address and same IP, they said all was fine. As long as we did some stuff. I got one and so does my brother.



The "second account" was my father's account. Which was the one that got shut down. That's why I was informed that the had colsed down my "second account". FT thought I had multi accounts. He didn't know his account got closed until I seen the email and told him.

What I was saying is, sometimes FT makes mistakes, as it did in my father's case. Though if you did nothing wrong and are able to show it they will usually rectify the problem.

 

[Kenzie 96]

You don't understand that not betting against someone, cause they are your buddy, constitutes collusion & you are playin .50/1 cash games. I would suggest you drop FT an e-mail thanking them for savin you from yourself.

 

[KyleJRM]

It quite simply was not fair to the other players to play in a sit-n-go where two of the players were not trying to play against each other.

 

[Dorkus Malorkus]

HERES MY OTHER POINT- We played for what I consider pennies the biggest we ever played was 10 dollar sit and gos... usually 5. Yet as soon as I start playing .50/1 cash games and make some decent money, they shut me down.

if you attempt to cashout that triggers a security review of your account. for obvious reasons sites don't just investigate people at a random time, they wait for a cashout request and then perform a security review before shipping the money.

look, you cheated, you got caught, FT's ToS says that they can take your money if you cheat, FT took your money and closed your account as they are perfectly entitled to do. those are the facts and no amount of spin from you about refunds and warnings and whatever will change them.

 

[Divebitch]

Ok I did not realize that not betting against each other is the meaning of soft playing. In casinos u can willingly ask ur friend if they want to "check it down" which is what I felt we would sometimes do. We never discussed sidebets at the table it was not necessary.

Here is my issue. Other people were warned by full tilt if they suspected them of colluding. ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS ASK US TO NOT PLAY TOGETHER We played together since september NOT CHEATING OR PROFITING!

I'm gonna be on your side (for the moment), along with the guy that claimed many will be quick to burn you at the stake without more info. Will start with the disclaimer that sometimes i somewhat slowplay someone whether or not I know them or not, usually will depend whether or not I like them, and have seen them always play tight and fair. If that makes me a sucker/poor player, so be it. However, it is never anyone on a particular basis or huge hand. I just might not have that killer instinct it takes to be successful more frequently or easily.

Agreed, we might be missing some info, but I'd give you the benefit of the doubt, especially since (yes since) you admitted to slow-playing. Not saying all is innocent, but I can certainly see the fun at playing at the same table with a personal friend. I've done that, but not enough to slow-play. Usually when one raises, we know to fold because he got the goods - and we don't, or vice versa.

 

[ateamcrew]

Dorkus, I have cashed out dozens of times without being investigated. Not only that but i was not trying to cash out that money at the time. In fact I had not cashed out for a few weeks.

Dive, I appreciate the support

"but I can certainly see the fun at playing at the same table with a personal friend. I've done that, but not enough to slow-play. Usually when one raises, we know to fold because he got the goods - and we don't, or vice versa."

Thats exactly what we did if he came in raising I just chose not to get involved in the pot because i figured he had the goods bc he is a tight player and I would prefer not to get involved against him so I may fold AJ or 99 if he came into the pot raising.

 

[FTP_TheNuts]

I smell bullshit straight away considering full tilt would not be ****ed/or have the ability, to refund every single player you have ever won money off with your $800.

 

[KyleJRM]

s-s-s-s-story change! Earlier, you checked down pots with each other. Now you just avoided him preflop because he's a tight player.

 

[WVHillbilly]

From your OP:

They continue to send me generic email responses and do not even have a phone number to call that would explain to me the details of the case. A couple days later they told me that due to my refusal to end the conversation they placed a stop on a 150 dollar check that was recently sent to me.

Dorkus, I have cashed out dozens of times without being investigated. Not only that but i was not trying to cash out that money at the time. In fact I had not cashed out for a few weeks.

Do please try to keep your story (and that exactly what it is) straight within the confines of the thread.

 

[ateamcrew]

First of all my story is straight i tried to avoid pots with rfeely and if I got in them I would try not to bet against him. Like bet sometimes but not push all in or check it down. But if he bet i figured he had he best hand if I was in the pot. FTP what do u think is bull shit? my story or that they really just kept the money?

 

[ckingriches]

I'm a little concerned that this group seems to be so willing to convict the OP without any true regard to his story, much less a willingness to look in the mirror.

Have any of you ever played a hand differently than you otherwise would when you realized the guy who raised was either a friend or someone you play with regularly? I've seen threads regarding "CC invasions" that obviously pit acquaintances, if not friends, against one another. I've also witnessed CC and non-CC players fold to a short stack near the bubble when any two cards should have called (sometimes even thanking each other or discussing the "charity" in the chat).

I'm not saying that the OP is innoncent, but I guess I'm just not so quick to judge. I also don't understand how FT can wait so long before taking action and still take all of his money, if indeed his admitted violations, minor or otherwise, were well before he made any money.

Personally I played in a few freerolls long, long ago in which I suggested to other players that we trade the blinds instead of driving each other out. So we each might triple up against the autofolders instead of beating each other up. Now I know better, and would never chat about that again, much less fold AA when it was my turn to sacrifice a blind. Back then my BR might have been $20. Now that it's $2000 does FT have the right to confiscate all of my money?

Maybe they have the right, but that doesn't make it right. Think about it.

 

[Debi]

I'm a little concerned that this group seems to be so willing to convict the OP without any true regard to his story, much less a willingness to look in the mirror.

Have any of you ever played a hand differently than you otherwise would when you realized the guy who raised was either a friend or someone you play with regularly? I've seen threads regarding "CC invasions" that obviously pit acquaintances, if not friends, against one another. I've also witnessed CC and non-CC players fold to a short stack near the bubble when any two cards should have called (sometimes even thanking each other or discussing the "charity" in the chat).

I'm not saying that the OP is innoncent, but I guess I'm just not so quick to judge. I also don't understand how FT can wait so long before taking action and still take all of his money, if indeed his admitted violations, minor or otherwise, were well before he made any money.

Personally I played in a few freerolls long, long ago in which I suggested to other players that we trade the blinds instead of driving each other out. So we each might triple up against the autofolders instead of beating each other up. Now I know better, and would never chat about that again, much less fold AA when it was my turn to sacrifice a blind. Back then my BR might have been $20. Now that it's $2000 does FT have the right to confiscate all of my money?

Maybe they have the right, but that doesn't make it right. Think about it.

No - I don't play softly against my friends here - including my husband who is sometimes in the same CC games that I am in. And I think that most of us do the same.

I would be willing to bet the chat you saw was in a different tone that you are stating it. However if you ever notice collusion or soft play in our games then report it. Also - not every CC member knows push/fold strategy - I can attest to that. It is not soft playing if you don't do something because you don't know it is the right thing to do. Or if you know it is the right thing to do but have 7-2os and just can't bear to risk doubling up the short stack.

We are tough on the OP because he admitted he cheated - it is black and white. He got caught. If he didn't know he was breaking the rules then he pays the price.

And they are not going back years ago so your comparison is silly. Maybe a lot of people made mistakes when they first started playing and didn't read/understand the rules or the gravity of what they were doing and didn't get caught. That doesn't mean everyone who ever plays gets a "grace period" before the rules are enforced on them.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

I'm a little concerned that this group seems to be so willing to convict the OP without any true regard to his story, much less a willingness to look in the mirror.

There are holes in the OP story (which are being pointed out).

The OP admits to soft play which is against the T&C.

FT has conducted an investigation and found him to be in violation of the T&C and therefore confiscated his money.

I have never colluded / used multi accounts / used prohibited software / made inappropriate comments in chat box etc etc (so when I look in the mirror everything looks fine; damn fine ).

 

[ckingriches]

And they are not going back years ago so your comparison is silly.

Months after playing any sit and go's with my friend and after a recent good string of cash game sessions I had about 800 dollars in my account. Suddenly full tilt writes me and tells me without warning that my account has been permanantly closed due to collusion and they are keeping 800 dollars and refunding it to other players that were in the games. First of all, we never profited and that money was made in 100 percent cash games.

I took this comment from the OP as suggesting his admitted soft play against his friend in SNGs was many months prior, and his winnings in cash games didn't even include playing with his friend. Maybe I'm wrong in either or both of these assumptions.

Let me pose the following to you, without being specific. Bear in mind that this is purely hypothetical, and I have no evidence or suspicion that any site has or would ever do this.

What is to prevent a poker site from keeping a book on each of us, and finding some minor indiscretion that is technically against the rules? It could be anything from a single instance of folding AA preflop, using inappropriate language, speaking a language other than English, discussing a hand in play, or something worse. Then what is to prevent that site from monitoring our bankrolls and deciding at any point, weeks or months after the indiscretion, to confiscate all our funds because we "cheated".

 

[Stu_Ungar]

What is to prevent a poker site from keeping a book on each of us, and finding some minor indiscretion that is technically against the rules? It could be anything from a single instance of folding AA preflop, using inappropriate language, speaking a language other than English, discussing a hand in play, or something worse. Then what is to prevent that site from monitoring our bankrolls and deciding at any point, weeks or months after the indiscretion, to confiscate all our funds because we "cheated".

I dont know and TBH it really dosent bother me.

I have never folded AA preflop.. never.... nor KK again.. never.

I dont speak other languages at the table. Ok I only speak English but its not a hard rule to follow, you are told that English is the only language you can use, you follow the rule. You never see someone start a conversation in English and finish it in French, followed by "sorry I didn't realise I had slipped back into French". IF you cant speak English you dont use the chat-box at all.

I have never discussed a hand in play.. it's against the rules (I have 100% control over my typing fingers at all times.. its not going to happen by accident).

I have never colluded.

Never multi accounted.

Never chip dumped.

Its not hard to follow these rules.

I have never even swore in the chat box or used the word "donkey"!!

Its not hard!!

 

[Egon Towst]

Thread title should be changed to "Why full tilt poker can be trusted!!!". It's a good thing that they catch colluders.

I concur.

 

[Zorba]

Its amazing though they say their decision is final yet they have no phone number to call or no reasonable customer service agent you can call and explain the situation.

What part of the decision is final don't you understand, maybe you should try that other forum.

Can we just start a new thread labeled, " I Colluded at Full Tilt"?

No don't start another BS thread, lets just lock this one.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

What part of the decision is final don't you understand.

The part where it applies to him, just like the T&C.

 

[Debi]

I took this comment from the OP as suggesting his admitted soft play against his friend in SNGs was many months prior, and his winnings in cash games didn't even include playing with his friend. Maybe I'm wrong in either or both of these assumptions.

Let me pose the following to you, without being specific. Bear in mind that this is purely hypothetical, and I have no evidence or suspicion that any site has or would ever do this.

What is to prevent a poker site from keeping a book on each of us, and finding some minor indiscretion that is technically against the rules? It could be anything from a single instance of folding AA preflop, using inappropriate language, speaking a language other than English, discussing a hand in play, or something worse. Then what is to prevent that site from monitoring our bankrolls and deciding at any point, weeks or months after the indiscretion, to confiscate all our funds because we "cheated".

Months ago is recent imo and very different from years ago which you used in your comparison.

There is zero evidence that sites have done this and it would be ridiculous if they did - they would get caught. So no point in pondering it.

 

[Grossberger]

Dorkus, I have cashed out dozens of times without being investigated. Not only that but i was not trying to cash out that money at the time. In fact I had not cashed out for a few weeks.

Dive, I appreciate the support

"but I can certainly see the fun at playing at the same table with a personal friend. I've done that, but not enough to slow-play. Usually when one raises, we know to fold because he got the goods - and we don't, or vice versa."

Thats exactly what we did if he came in raising I just chose not to get involved in the pot because i figured he had the goods bc he is a tight player and I would prefer not to get involved against him so I may fold AJ or 99 if he came into the pot raising.

They are not looking at you folding 99 or AJ to your friends raise, they will go back to all the times you and your buddy played together and find patterns. If your folding pairs or AK,AQ,AJ to a min raise then that looks suspicious. If at anytime you have raised preflop and your buddy called and one of you hit top pair and checked it down because it was only you 2 in the hand, those are he kinda things they look for.

I would suggest if you play on another site that if you and your buddy are going to play the same tournament you either play MTTs or 45 man SnGs, dont play SnGs with less players or any cash games.

As far as people "checking it down" in a casino if they ever openly said lets check it down the floor could be called over and a penalty could be put on one or both, it's an unsaid thing you can't openly say to check it down in a tournament.

 

[Pothole]

I'm not going to comment one way or another as to whether what the OP was doing can be considered cheating or collusion. I will ask one question though. What's the point of playing at a table with your 'buddy', if your not prepared to punish his losing hand?
I play ring on AP with long standing friends and we all try to hammer each others bankroll, there's really no other way to play this game.
Sure poker sites do make mistakes, but I would rather they erred on the cautious than ignore possible cheating. Read the dumbass email I received from Hollywood poker a while back, considering I withdrew all my funds off there months ago except for the cents the vast majority of sites will not let you withdraw ( a nice little earner ). What do they expect me to do, make a deposit so they can deduct $9 odd from it? LMAO.

 

[Stu_Ungar]

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