B
bigpappa325
Visionary
Silver Level
i thought if your holding both cards for quads it qualified as a beat. quads over quads is a beat any place
R
Ronlg28
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Definitely rigged
Everything you just said happens to me all the time. Trip aces and kings on the flop and I shove all in and get beat by runner runner. Their can not be that many bad players playing. JJ vs JJ and the other pkayer hits a flush. Flop a flush several times and get beat by runner runner on my all in call. Hit 2 pair several times only to loose to pocket 5s or 3s tripping on the river.
This site is a scam!!
Everything you just said happens to me all the time. Trip aces and kings on the flop and I shove all in and get beat by runner runner. Their can not be that many bad players playing. JJ vs JJ and the other pkayer hits a flush. Flop a flush several times and get beat by runner runner on my all in call. Hit 2 pair several times only to loose to pocket 5s or 3s tripping on the river.
This site is a scam!!
K
Kush
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Site seems legit
I have been playing on BOL for about 2 months. I used to play online like 15 years ago and just recently got back into it.
I started playing SNGs, starting off smallish and basically break even. I deposited $50 then lost it over a couple weeks. Another $25, same story. Then I read Chris Moshman's SNG Strategy book and deposited another $40 and played only the lowest stakes until I grinded it up to about $80 before moving past the $3.50 buyin SNGs with a few $7 ones mixed in. This was about a month in at this point.
During the last month I spent a significant amount of time studying MTTs. Like 40+ hrs a week. I realized the real money was not in SNGs. I continued playing SNGs going up and down and staying right around $80 and mixing in a few MTTs here and there without much success. Continuing to study through the month, I've had really good results. I've been final tableing or making deep runs in smaller field (100-200 entries) tourneys almost daily while only playing a max of 4 tourneys a day. Often making multiple deep runs in a day or just getting 5th etc. in the only one I play. I've placed well in the few larger field ones I've played as well. Taking 11 out of 914 last week. I've managed to bring my $80 up to $430, playing $3 up to $11 MTTs with a few $22 ones that I didn't cash in.
At first I thought I was just getting lucky, but the consistency I've had over 3 weeks is ridiculous. The reason I'm doing so well is that the player pool is absolutely terrible. At least most of them. There are the maniacs, the nits and the passive calling stations. A lot more maniacs the lower stakes. The key is identifying and making notes on different players and using different strategies to exploit them. I know players on there that basically give me a second button if they're on my left because they fold almost every hand. I also know maniacs that you just have to be really patient with and others that you can 4bet jam with K10s and they'll call it off with J10o. Lots of variance, but sometimes you just have to rebuy. You really do have to be tilt proof though... The best part is the maniacs will always rebuy and just dump their chips again. Like seriously bluff jamming 3-4x pot with J high, no draw, when I flopped top set. I've seen people on 7 or 8 bullets frequently in the $5 or less MTTs. I'm usually just patient and chip up huge in the early levels because of these characters and it is often smooth sailing to the final table.
As far as the site being rigged, I don't think it is. It is likely that there are people using poker bots on there or colluding, but I haven't seen any definitive evidence. Collusion would be difficult in MTTs. I stay away from the cash games. There was a point when I was playing long days and I did start noticing really strange run outs and almost convinced myself there were 3 bots at final table of a $1.50 tourney. I ended up winning the tournament and chatting with 2 of the 3 suspected bots. After taking a few days off, camping, I realized that staring at the same screen and seeing thousands of hands can make you a little crazy. I think people just remember all of the bad run outs and don't remember how many ran out fine. I've been on the lucky side of terrible run outs just as many times as I've lost. It just happens sometimes. I've flopped a boat with KK on a 99K board and it ran out 99K99 and lost to AQo that didn't believe me and called flop and turn. I've seen quads over quads in live poker. It's that rigged? I just don't see any reason why the site would want to rig the game. They charge a ridiculous amount of rake and have a lot of tournaments. They don't have much motivation to cheat the players with the risk of being discovered. There is just a whole lot of variance against the maniacs and sometimes they get lucky or they actually have Aces or Kings. They are hard to play against sometimes, but a lot of fun if you can manage not tilting.
sharkscope me
"_Kush" Chico network. Avg ROI 16.7%
I have been playing on BOL for about 2 months. I used to play online like 15 years ago and just recently got back into it.
I started playing SNGs, starting off smallish and basically break even. I deposited $50 then lost it over a couple weeks. Another $25, same story. Then I read Chris Moshman's SNG Strategy book and deposited another $40 and played only the lowest stakes until I grinded it up to about $80 before moving past the $3.50 buyin SNGs with a few $7 ones mixed in. This was about a month in at this point.
During the last month I spent a significant amount of time studying MTTs. Like 40+ hrs a week. I realized the real money was not in SNGs. I continued playing SNGs going up and down and staying right around $80 and mixing in a few MTTs here and there without much success. Continuing to study through the month, I've had really good results. I've been final tableing or making deep runs in smaller field (100-200 entries) tourneys almost daily while only playing a max of 4 tourneys a day. Often making multiple deep runs in a day or just getting 5th etc. in the only one I play. I've placed well in the few larger field ones I've played as well. Taking 11 out of 914 last week. I've managed to bring my $80 up to $430, playing $3 up to $11 MTTs with a few $22 ones that I didn't cash in.
At first I thought I was just getting lucky, but the consistency I've had over 3 weeks is ridiculous. The reason I'm doing so well is that the player pool is absolutely terrible. At least most of them. There are the maniacs, the nits and the passive calling stations. A lot more maniacs the lower stakes. The key is identifying and making notes on different players and using different strategies to exploit them. I know players on there that basically give me a second button if they're on my left because they fold almost every hand. I also know maniacs that you just have to be really patient with and others that you can 4bet jam with K10s and they'll call it off with J10o. Lots of variance, but sometimes you just have to rebuy. You really do have to be tilt proof though... The best part is the maniacs will always rebuy and just dump their chips again. Like seriously bluff jamming 3-4x pot with J high, no draw, when I flopped top set. I've seen people on 7 or 8 bullets frequently in the $5 or less MTTs. I'm usually just patient and chip up huge in the early levels because of these characters and it is often smooth sailing to the final table.
As far as the site being rigged, I don't think it is. It is likely that there are people using poker bots on there or colluding, but I haven't seen any definitive evidence. Collusion would be difficult in MTTs. I stay away from the cash games. There was a point when I was playing long days and I did start noticing really strange run outs and almost convinced myself there were 3 bots at final table of a $1.50 tourney. I ended up winning the tournament and chatting with 2 of the 3 suspected bots. After taking a few days off, camping, I realized that staring at the same screen and seeing thousands of hands can make you a little crazy. I think people just remember all of the bad run outs and don't remember how many ran out fine. I've been on the lucky side of terrible run outs just as many times as I've lost. It just happens sometimes. I've flopped a boat with KK on a 99K board and it ran out 99K99 and lost to AQo that didn't believe me and called flop and turn. I've seen quads over quads in live poker. It's that rigged? I just don't see any reason why the site would want to rig the game. They charge a ridiculous amount of rake and have a lot of tournaments. They don't have much motivation to cheat the players with the risk of being discovered. There is just a whole lot of variance against the maniacs and sometimes they get lucky or they actually have Aces or Kings. They are hard to play against sometimes, but a lot of fun if you can manage not tilting.
sharkscope me
"_Kush" Chico network. Avg ROI 16.7%
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TongueLashin
Rock Star
Silver Level
I have had some oddball feeling variance at BoL
I started off pretty strong at BoL and my bankroll went up a lot for a day, maybe two. Then it was like the averaging software kicks in-total calamity. It gets to where I am not sure if it matters what my hand looks like. I start getting these "action flops" constantly and it almost seems like the villain knows you are in the "cold seat." I just began playing there again because I do have at least a small withdrawal from BoL and they are letting Nevada in there. I hope the site feels legit this time around.
I started off pretty strong at BoL and my bankroll went up a lot for a day, maybe two. Then it was like the averaging software kicks in-total calamity. It gets to where I am not sure if it matters what my hand looks like. I start getting these "action flops" constantly and it almost seems like the villain knows you are in the "cold seat." I just began playing there again because I do have at least a small withdrawal from BoL and they are letting Nevada in there. I hope the site feels legit this time around.
K
Kush
Enthusiast
Silver Level
"Action flops" is the one thing that I think is possible for online sites to do that I would believe. I don't think that's the case on BOL though. The boards do seem to be really draw heavy and the flushes always get there, but I've been trying to pay attention to all the time the board runs out normal and I think the frequencies are right. With the results I've had, the site would have to be rigged in my favor somehow and as I said before, the site doesn't have much motivation to cheat us. The rake, plus the rebuy/ extreme late reg structures of most of their tourneys allows them to make a lot of money. I rarely see a tournament with an overlay and they run nearly 100 MTTs a day.
If I can crush it, you can too. I recommend pokercoaching dot com. Even just their free content on YouTube. Study up, play solid poker and pick good spots. People need to stop blaming the sites for losses in poker. I see players constantly complaining about the site being rigged in the chat, but they are just playing bad poker from what I've witnessed. I've shark scoped some of the most awful LAGs on BOL to find out they're losing $1000+ per month.
If I can crush it, you can too. I recommend pokercoaching dot com. Even just their free content on YouTube. Study up, play solid poker and pick good spots. People need to stop blaming the sites for losses in poker. I see players constantly complaining about the site being rigged in the chat, but they are just playing bad poker from what I've witnessed. I've shark scoped some of the most awful LAGs on BOL to find out they're losing $1000+ per month.
Mycetism
Enthusiast
Silver Level
It does sometimes feel like it's rigged. Sometime just looking at your Ace King... you just know it's going to lose to that random 8-4.
How can a company give a away thousands of freeroll money every years, well I guess it's because they assume people will just lose it back to the house. The money just keep rolling from player to player while the casino keep taking that 1% every hand. The house can't lose, but that doesn't mean we can win... sometimes lol
How can a company give a away thousands of freeroll money every years, well I guess it's because they assume people will just lose it back to the house. The money just keep rolling from player to player while the casino keep taking that 1% every hand. The house can't lose, but that doesn't mean we can win... sometimes lol
toni_brasco
Rock Star
Bronze Level
happens everywhere
I think that what you described that happening to you is the same on some other poker rooms as well.It is just the same thing that i experienced and to me it looks like poker room is constantly doing drama in almost every hand- for example right now, two hands in a row
I think that what you described that happening to you is the same on some other poker rooms as well.It is just the same thing that i experienced and to me it looks like poker room is constantly doing drama in almost every hand- for example right now, two hands in a row
Attachments
Poker Orifice
FoolsTilt
Platinum Level
I think this confirms it! I mean not one.. but TWO hands & in a row! Yup.... someone.. i mean something fishy here!
P
POKEREXFORD
Rising Star
Bronze Level
BOL
Do not play their Windfall. Played long enough to see an obvious pattern. The have bots and a few players oviously use bots. The most obvious problem is their rivers. Been tracking and too many hands win at the river. beyond normal odds. I actually had a good winning streak knowing the river would be in my favor on some ridiculous bets. Also, for example. there is always one player now I end up playing almost 90% of the time any time of day. Either not too many people play windfall or just plain rigged. Impossible to be a coincidence in any circumstance. So. I am moving on.
Do not play their Windfall. Played long enough to see an obvious pattern. The have bots and a few players oviously use bots. The most obvious problem is their rivers. Been tracking and too many hands win at the river. beyond normal odds. I actually had a good winning streak knowing the river would be in my favor on some ridiculous bets. Also, for example. there is always one player now I end up playing almost 90% of the time any time of day. Either not too many people play windfall or just plain rigged. Impossible to be a coincidence in any circumstance. So. I am moving on.
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robdmark
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I don't think online poker is legit on US sites, either. I have just seen to many quirky and fishy things happen, but the other side says you can't prove it. If it looks like a rat and smells like a rat, it's probably a rat.
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robdmark
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I have to drive to my nearest casino which is an hour away, and i agree the stakes are hard to match.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
I have not played on BetOnline, but in general I assign it a very low probability, that online casinos are actually rigged. Even those that operate under license from weird places like an indian reservate still have a business and reputation to protect, and I am just not convinced about any of the common theories about, what sites would even gain by having a rigged RNG.
OP say, he lost 15 buyins over 3 cash game sessions, and while this is a bit extreme, it will happen from time to time, and more so in wild games with high variance. So it proves nothing, and neither does the timing of the downswing compared to his deposits or withdrawals. There has been loads of talks about a "withdrawal curse" on even the major online sites like pokerstars, but as with other similar theories no statistically significant evidence has ever been presented.
OP say, he lost 15 buyins over 3 cash game sessions, and while this is a bit extreme, it will happen from time to time, and more so in wild games with high variance. So it proves nothing, and neither does the timing of the downswing compared to his deposits or withdrawals. There has been loads of talks about a "withdrawal curse" on even the major online sites like pokerstars, but as with other similar theories no statistically significant evidence has ever been presented.
Pokerpoet2
Legend
Loyaler
I hear this again and again about several other sites, I have never deposited with any of the poker sites I have played on and still manage to build small bankrolls from free-rolls and small micro sit and go's.
If you want to make a living from poker you really need to play live games in a Casino where you can try to read other players from their moves, The days of making a living from on-line poker are long in the past mainly because the amateur players are getting better and the fact there always will be crooked sites that just want to take your cash.
All I have ever wanted from an on-line poker site is the pleasure of playing when I want, for as long as I want, without it costing me an arm and a leg.
Sure I get bad beats at times, but since joining Cardschat I now play a little better and my bankroll has increased by 25% over the lockdown period.
So no hard luck stories from me!
My Favorite site --- pokerstars.com
If you want to make a living from poker you really need to play live games in a Casino where you can try to read other players from their moves, The days of making a living from on-line poker are long in the past mainly because the amateur players are getting better and the fact there always will be crooked sites that just want to take your cash.
All I have ever wanted from an on-line poker site is the pleasure of playing when I want, for as long as I want, without it costing me an arm and a leg.
Sure I get bad beats at times, but since joining Cardschat I now play a little better and my bankroll has increased by 25% over the lockdown period.
So no hard luck stories from me!
My Favorite site --- pokerstars.com
S
Simplex
Rock Star
Silver Level
I made a substantial withdrawal there years ago (BOL) and then everything went South with the remaining balance. Just one case. Lost with AA to KQ (each time), allin preflop, 4 times in a row-- each time the guy shoving on me preflop. I just laughed my ass off and never looked back. Good riddance.
Oh, btw, the odds of losing to that specific situation is 0.01%
Oh, btw, the odds of losing to that specific situation is 0.01%
Pokerstudy
Legend
Bronze Level
Great run
My mind is numb from the fish going all in with everything. I hope playing there hasn’t made me stupid. I can’t wait to play free rolls this week! Want to play real players at cardschat to keep me sharp! Won some great money with patient grinding and luck but it just does NOT at all feel like poker lol. Whatever works to make some money I guess...
My mind is numb from the fish going all in with everything. I hope playing there hasn’t made me stupid. I can’t wait to play free rolls this week! Want to play real players at cardschat to keep me sharp! Won some great money with patient grinding and luck but it just does NOT at all feel like poker lol. Whatever works to make some money I guess...
B
BodyCount
Rock Star
Silver Level
I've played some BetOnline MTTs. These tourneys more look like a lottery. The guys are calling pre-flop all-in moves with A3o, JQo, J9 etc. on the early stage. I feel this room will be profitable(for tigth-agressive players ofcourse) in a long run. Still be ready for a lot of bad beats.
C
CliffieDeuce
Rock Star
Silver Level
Betonline had a freebuy series. I won a freebuy ticket into a Satellite to a $300 000 tourney.
I have not made a deposit on their site, and only play freerolls.
Needless to say, in the real money tournament, I was near the first ones being out.
I find the same thing on all the sites, I can win Satellites into the next satellites buy when it comes to the real money, I am near first out.
The only two sites I have made any money is ACR (10) and Natural8 (0.17).
On ACR I won in the first week and then haven't managed to get anywhere after the first week.....Just keep grinding.
I have not made a deposit on their site, and only play freerolls.
Needless to say, in the real money tournament, I was near the first ones being out.
I find the same thing on all the sites, I can win Satellites into the next satellites buy when it comes to the real money, I am near first out.
The only two sites I have made any money is ACR (10) and Natural8 (0.17).
On ACR I won in the first week and then haven't managed to get anywhere after the first week.....Just keep grinding.
L
LloydRR
Rising Star
Bronze Level
Made initial deposit. Slowly built bank-roll over 2 day period. Normal ups and downs with a few bad beats, really bad beats but that's expected. Experienced typical "bad variance" as well, played a ton of hands. On the third day something was different. A few players that were fish on days 1 and 2 turned into savage wolves jamming and re-raising me every-time. Was still getting aa and kk in typical fashion, but now the whole table is auto-folding no matter what raise size i do, i varied it to feel things out because it was so blatantly odd i suspected something was up almost immediately. Every marginal hand i fold, a boat appears for my would-be hand. Every hand i dont get jammed out on, a 3 flush flops of a suit i don't have. AA and kk are like a golden unicorn at this point. The rare instance i have a chance to jam my top pair top kicker, i get sucked out on by a player who frequently jams with rags, normally, i would say "great, i've experienced players jamming with rags in live action, they get lucky once, then you end up with 3 re-buys worth of their money by the end of the night." Not on Betonline, they never bust out, and this is the most bizarre aspect of the play here, post "initial run of steady success," these players steadily grow their stack until they disappear, usually after a particularly suspicious hand. If it's a sit and go, they win, maybe losing one hand the whole session, looking like the Doyle Brunson of $1.50 double or nothing. I salute people making the effort to record play and post hand histories to support this phenomenon, but for me it just doesn't do it justice, some will rightfully argue the hands as bad beats, because they are, but any experienced live action player who puts in some time on BOL will just "see it," this experience does not exist in the wild. Anyone who tries to tell me that what i experienced is normal, you are pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining. Them: "how do you know it's not rain? Did you run a chemical test on it? Me: "Well, i saw you whip it out, now my leg is warm/wet, i don't think i need a chemical test, i'm just going to pimp slap you and avoid future encounters with you."
Conclusion-
I'm a US based forensic accountant (i'm also a very experienced NLH player). I can't encounter a situation like this w/out trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I frequently hear people complaining about bots on BOL. This would be entity-level fraud, not that the site itself wouldn't de-fraud an american player who has no recourse, but i don't think they would go about it in this way, nor did it feel like this is specifically what was happening. To me, it felt like i was playing against a few players, actual human players, who could see my cards. It also felt like these human players knew what was coming most of the time, it also appeared that the few obviously legitimate american players, real humans like myself who deposited money on the site to play poker, were being targeted in a similar fashion, and their stack(s) would mirror mine in an eerie way. The stack slowly goes down, every playable hand gets jammed on by the player to your left, and as the "real" player waits for that opportunity to bust the fish w/ a set or AA, etc, the player to the left speed folds. The "fish" are the ones who consistently bust you, never busting out themselves. I suspect that the value of an american dollar is high enough in the locales where the site operates, and with corruption/oversight not being a fraction of what it is in US, that the incentive and opportunity are both there for site employees, as well as friends/family members of site employees, to access admin tools while playing and "unmask" player hands and common cards. There is an anecdote posted on another forum by a player who claims to have experienced "normal play" after complaining directly to the site regarding this type of activity. This makes sense to me, as those participating in the fraud are likely close to whoever would be receiving that type of complaint, and while tacitly accepted, the behavior is at least encouraged to cease w/ respect to the player who is trying to draw attention to it, the site would not change its algorithm or re-program its bots to lay off a player though, i don't believe, so i would go all-in on lax controls over the admin tools vs. site-wide programming fraud as the culprit.
Conclusion-
I'm a US based forensic accountant (i'm also a very experienced NLH player). I can't encounter a situation like this w/out trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I frequently hear people complaining about bots on BOL. This would be entity-level fraud, not that the site itself wouldn't de-fraud an american player who has no recourse, but i don't think they would go about it in this way, nor did it feel like this is specifically what was happening. To me, it felt like i was playing against a few players, actual human players, who could see my cards. It also felt like these human players knew what was coming most of the time, it also appeared that the few obviously legitimate american players, real humans like myself who deposited money on the site to play poker, were being targeted in a similar fashion, and their stack(s) would mirror mine in an eerie way. The stack slowly goes down, every playable hand gets jammed on by the player to your left, and as the "real" player waits for that opportunity to bust the fish w/ a set or AA, etc, the player to the left speed folds. The "fish" are the ones who consistently bust you, never busting out themselves. I suspect that the value of an american dollar is high enough in the locales where the site operates, and with corruption/oversight not being a fraction of what it is in US, that the incentive and opportunity are both there for site employees, as well as friends/family members of site employees, to access admin tools while playing and "unmask" player hands and common cards. There is an anecdote posted on another forum by a player who claims to have experienced "normal play" after complaining directly to the site regarding this type of activity. This makes sense to me, as those participating in the fraud are likely close to whoever would be receiving that type of complaint, and while tacitly accepted, the behavior is at least encouraged to cease w/ respect to the player who is trying to draw attention to it, the site would not change its algorithm or re-program its bots to lay off a player though, i don't believe, so i would go all-in on lax controls over the admin tools vs. site-wide programming fraud as the culprit.