mbrenneman0
Legend
Silver Level
Do they account for your vpip/pfr stats when deciding when to call, like reading your ranges. Maybe if they do and they haven't played a lot against you, you can give off a tight table image then bluff them??
Do they account for your vpip/pfr stats when deciding when to call, like reading your ranges. Maybe if they do and they haven't played a lot against you, you can give off a tight table image then bluff them??
RogueRivered
Visionary
Silver Level
PokerOrifice -- You really, really need to go check it out before you discount it. I've given you all the tools and advice you need to find out for yourself. If you won't even look at it, what can I do? You can just stick your head in the sand and pretend nothing is going on, and when they improve these bots, then maybe you'll care. And I should add, it's nice of you to care about the new and low stakes players -- it's not like they are of any use to ACR. Really, if ACR isn't involved, I think they are cheating themselves.
mbrenneman0 -- No, I don't think they do at all. As far as I can tell, they will simply check if the don't have anything (like in the big blind) and fold if faced with a bet. If they bet after the flop, they definitely have something. Like I've said, I've never seen one call a bet, unless it was all-in.
mbrenneman0 -- No, I don't think they do at all. As far as I can tell, they will simply check if the don't have anything (like in the big blind) and fold if faced with a bet. If they bet after the flop, they definitely have something. Like I've said, I've never seen one call a bet, unless it was all-in.
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mbrenneman0
Legend
Silver Level
That sounds pretty easily exploitable. Just play lag right?
RogueRivered
Visionary
Silver Level
So, please, explain to us how your security department looks for cheaters and fraudulent activity. What are the methods used? How many people are doing this job? What is your monitoring area like? Can you post a picture?
I think your confidence in your security system may be undeserved. I don't know about you, but when I hear a company say "We are so confident . . . ," all it means is they aren't really confident at all, and they are probably on late-night TV infomercials. I like to call it "weasel words."
Not saying that's you, but you've got a major problem with cheaters running fake players on your hands, and you're not responding appropriately to remove them for your site. I think it will hurt you in the long run, and I like your site a lot and want to see it prosper. I'm not doing this to give you a hard time, I'm doing it because you need to clean up your act, for everybody's benefit, except the cheaters.
You certainly can see these fake players playing 24-hours a day, right? Now, what does that tell you? I think it should give you an obvious place to start looking. And, yeah, lack of city and country, are a huge tip-off, so I suggest you start there after you check out the non-stop players. Why do I have to do it for you?
RogueRivered
Visionary
Silver Level
I don't know. Before I realized what I was up against, the only way I could make it far in these tourneys was to play TAG. I often went out right before the bubble, mainly because I froze up and didn't want to play anything but great hands. It is at this point in the tourney, where a lot of the player's blinds are under 10, that you have to do the opposite. The bots' card selection criteria goes way down when they are short stacked, although they will usually have a pair or at least an ace if they go all-in. Of course, this is mathematically correct, according to push/fold charts. The bots play mathematically perfect at this point. They don't avoid each other at all, since it doesn't matter which one wins. I'm convinced that they DO NOT share cards, but I wasn't so sure at first. Watch any final couple of tables, and you will see them. They are the ones that never pre-select their turn, never call, always use quite a bit of clock often going into timebank. Seems like the longer they go into timebank, the more likely they go all-in at that point -- trying to be more deceptive, I think. And I have never seen one list a city or country, where all the obvious humans do. People always say, "that doesn't prove anything." Yeah, I know, but it is a big part of the puzzle, and something you should look for. If you find a blank city and state towards the end of the tournament, or anytime really, that is your suspect. 9 out of 10 times, that will be your bot. They are also always Male, BTW. And when you take down notes on their join date, there are several dates that show up over and over, another curiosity, which is actually more evidence. For instance, a whole bunch of them joined on Sept 10, 2015 -- don't ask me why.
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proud2Bwhack
Rock Star
Silver Level
This is kind of in reply to Orifice's post, but I dont mean it in a hostile way.
this is taken from another new thread here on CC, referring to bots in a CASH GAME on ACR!
I actually just sat at a cash table with 4 of them. Absolutely random a Costa Rican female joined on the same date 29th September 2015 pushed all in with 4 10 off and some how catches a straight flush out of no where against my QQ. 2 hours at this table and she played 4 hands all of which she caught either a set, boat, or straight flush with completely random hands.
Not at all human like play, and not at all play somebody would make without knowledge of the coming cards.
Love to hear a reply from ACR to this, and how all the bots are being seated at tables together, etc. Something besides the fact that "we are checking into it."
this is taken from another new thread here on CC, referring to bots in a CASH GAME on ACR!
I actually just sat at a cash table with 4 of them. Absolutely random a Costa Rican female joined on the same date 29th September 2015 pushed all in with 4 10 off and some how catches a straight flush out of no where against my QQ. 2 hours at this table and she played 4 hands all of which she caught either a set, boat, or straight flush with completely random hands.
Not at all human like play, and not at all play somebody would make without knowledge of the coming cards.
Love to hear a reply from ACR to this, and how all the bots are being seated at tables together, etc. Something besides the fact that "we are checking into it."
Debi
Forum Admin
Administrator
Everyone please keep in mind that these kind of things take time to clean up. ACR can not just say - "Oh yea those are all bots let's just wipe them out in a second" - with the first report they get on something like this. They have to do due diligence and investigation and you should give them ample time to do that.
Big poker sites like this have to deal with many reported issues and expecting them to drop everything to deal with an issue you find is just unreasonable.
It looks like they are already taking action on some of these accounts - give them time to get through it all.
There are always things that we are unaware of that can impact what they do - and when it comes to issues that are closely related to security we can't expect them to update us on every detail of it.
Big poker sites like this have to deal with many reported issues and expecting them to drop everything to deal with an issue you find is just unreasonable.
It looks like they are already taking action on some of these accounts - give them time to get through it all.
There are always things that we are unaware of that can impact what they do - and when it comes to issues that are closely related to security we can't expect them to update us on every detail of it.
RogueRivered
Visionary
Silver Level
It is possible that these fake players are placed in the tournaments by ACR or WPN to inflate the numbers of participants? I can see that someone there might think that was justifiable. I don't think it is, because you are still wasting a lot of people's time and even competing against players who have paid to enter the low buy-in tournaments.
I'm asking because I have heard that some companies do this, and it is also a practice at live casinos for them to pay a player to sit at an empty table and try to get a game going.
FWIW, the higher-ups might not make this known to the ACR customer service reps.
RogueRivered
Visionary
Silver Level
Yes, this is true. It will take some time.
I'm beginning to wonder if a majority of these fake players are placed in the tournaments by ACR / WPN to juice the numbers. I can see how they might justify that to themselves (and not tell the ACR rep).
dealio96
The LAG Monkeys
Silver Level
OMG this guy.... Can we close this thread already?
For the last time... THEY ARENT BOTS!!!! They are players with multiple accounts!
dealio96
The LAG Monkeys
Silver Level
After all of thie screenshots and his "proof" I still don't see evidence of "bots" playing at ACR. just bc a few accounts from the same location have good ROI...lol. Do you have any other evidence?? They removed accounts that were probably registered to the same person or figured out players were "multi accounting" still no solid proof of "bots" playing on WPN
dealio96
The LAG Monkeys
Silver Level
RogueRivered
Visionary
Silver Level
Dude, have you even gone into ACR and looked at one of final tables?
You do that, and then come back and make an informed statement.
And please send me some evidence if you can refute a single thing I have said or screen shots posted. I'm very happy to see anything you can come up with that isn't just your opinion.
RogueRivered
Visionary
Silver Level
OK, just give me one single thing that refutes anything I have posted. You are very wrong about this, and you might realize it if you actually did any work to look into it further -- like watching one of those final tables.
RogueRivered
Visionary
Silver Level
Typical response from someone who is too lazy to go look for themselves.
And isn't it true about the casinos? I read that somewhere -- I think it was Ace on the River by Barry Greenstein.
RogueRivered
Visionary
Silver Level
Yes, thank you, thank you. I just checked, I see that most of them are not playing today, and the ones in the $100 GTD are being blinded out without trying to play. This is a HUGE improvement.
My faith is coming back. I really do like ACR -- great interface. It's just so hard to get people to listen to you when you spot something fishy going on.
Edit: The ones in the $100 GTD are all marked Inactive, so this is wonderful. Thanks ACR for taking me seriously.
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dealio96
The LAG Monkeys
Silver Level
So is this your final piece of evidence that you present to the jury? If so....case dismissed! lol