Phil Ivey wins $11 Million - Casino refuses to pay

OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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since this thread started a few months back, i wonder what the outcome of this was.I hope they payed him his money by now, seems highly unlikely he could have been cheating here in this game.Maybe someone will post an update soon, or i will google it also.

N'yeah, to the best of anyone's knowledge there haven't been any updates on this story and I'd be very surprised if there are ever going to be any more. It could have been resolved months ago or it could drag on for another year, either way we wouldn't know about it.

Ivey has demonstrated he has zero interest in discussing the matter publicly, and it's certainly not in the casino's interest to discuss it at all. If it was a casino staffer that leaked the story in the first place they've almost certainly been either fired or given a stern enough talking to that they're not going to blab again.
 
FastOne

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N'yeah, to the best of anyone's knowledge there haven't been any updates on this story and I'd be very surprised if there are ever going to be any more. It could have been resolved months ago or it could drag on for another year, either way we wouldn't know about it.

Ivey has demonstrated he has zero interest in discussing the matter publicly, and it's certainly not in the casino's interest to discuss it at all. If it was a casino staffer that leaked the story in the first place they've almost certainly been either fired or given a stern enough talking to that they're not going to blab again.
I searched the web a few days ago trying to find any new info about this and found nothing. You mention the casino don't want to discuss the matter publicly, but the story is already out, so if they came to an agreement, maybe they should say something about it and not leave it as it is so that people could assume they didn't pay Ivey, IMO.
 
jazzaxe

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A lot of excellent card players go broke in the casino when they get addicted to the action but can't beat the "false odds" the casino offers in games like craps.
I don't know much about the game he was playing but am pretty sure it is offering "false odds" by the casino.
 
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we will rock you

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pay the man is money if he lost they would make him pay
 
-Phil Ivey27

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Quite ridiculous I read that and found nothing that could justify not giving Ivey the money he had won

If he lost then they wouldn't of said s***
 
OzExorcist

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I searched the web a few days ago trying to find any new info about this and found nothing. You mention the casino don't want to discuss the matter publicly, but the story is already out and has already been forgotten about by everyone other than a handful of poker nerds, so if they came to an agreement, maybe they should say something about it and not leave it as it is so that people could assume they didn't pay Ivey, IMO.

FYP. Not really much point them making a song and dance about it now, even if they did pay him all the money, because pretty much everyone who read the story forgot about it a long time ago.

The only people that are likely to feel they have any personal connection to the story or interest in its outcome are the other high rollers who play at the same casino. And they don't need a news story or a public statement to reassure them - that's what casino hosts and comped expensive dinners are for. Aside from those high rollers, the casino doesn't really have any reason to care what Joe Public's opinion is on whether or not Ivey got his money.

One other thing: even if Joe Public was somehow invested in the outcome of this story, do you really think it'd stop people gambling at the casino? After all we're talking about gamblers, not everyday rational people. Remember it was gamblers that kept playing on Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker after the superuser scandal. We're not really a very selective bunch when it comes down to it.

jazzaxe said:
A lot of excellent card players go broke in the casino when they get addicted to the action but can't beat the "false odds" the casino offers in games like craps.
I don't know much about the game he was playing but am pretty sure it is offering "false odds" by the casino.

What you're talking about is the house edge - the mathematical advantage the house has in table games.

There's an easy way to tell whether the odds are stacked in favour of the house or the player, by the way: if you're playing against the house, then the odds are in the house's favour.

House edge in the game Ivey was playing, Punto Banco, is in the low 1% range depending on the bets he was making and the exact odds the casino was laying.

More info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punto_Banco#Punto_banco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_edge#House_advantage

Quite ridiculous I read that and found nothing that could justify not giving Ivey the money he had won

If he lost then they wouldn't of said s***

That'd be because nobody other than the parties involved has the full facts - the original story contained little more than speculation and there's been no hard info released since. Nor is there likely to be.
 
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RiverMeTimbers

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What a ridiculous amount of money to be playing for and then not be paid!
 
-Phil Ivey27

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Oz what could Ivey have possible done even if all information was released?

Don't you believe he has enough money and is proven to enjoy the thrill of gambling why risk a thing by cheating?
 
pcgnome

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Looks to me like they are just holding out on him. I could be wrong, but what a scandal it would be if he were caught cheating. Maybe he has found a way to cheat w/o getting caught
 
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that hurts bad rep for the casino who would feel safe gambling there..
 
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I think I already posted in this thread a little while back, but was checking to see if anyone ever found any updates or a link on this story now.I would be curious to know if the casino ever did pay him his money finally.
 
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Too much missing information IMO to even talk about this.
 
OzExorcist

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Oz what could Ivey have possible done even if all information was released?

Don't you believe he has enough money and is proven to enjoy the thrill of gambling why risk a thing by cheating?

*shrugs*

Beyond a certain point speculation is just silly given the complete lack of information. Personally I think it's highly unlikely that Ivey actually cheated - not necessarily for the reasons you mention, but because the game itself is fairly difficult to cheat at.

If you want to speculate further though, try my suggestion some months back about the possible cause for this - I spoke to a few people I know that are current or former dealers and supervisors in high-stakes salons and VIP rooms (not at the casino in question, or in the UK for that matter, but still) and they were of the opinion that when something like this happens, the most likely cause is that a supervisor overstepped their authority when they approved the raise in the stakes. When their boss finds out the casino is down a huge sum because one high roller was playing three times higher than they'd been approved for, they payout gets held while they investigate.

It's also possible the management decided they needed to review the session given the sheer size of the win. Maybe they suspected one of the dealers of foul play, not Ivey... like I said though, beyond a certain point the specualtion just gets a bit silly.

Chances are the casino paid Ivey his money months ago, and neither party bothered to inform the public because at the end of the day, it's really none of the public's business. Which is why aside from the brief bit of titilation at the time I'm still really having trouble seeing why so many people, most of whom seem to have little to no understanding of how the high-roller B&M world works, are taking such a huge interest in this :p
 
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I actually think £7.3M is a lot of money for this rather small casino.
Probably struggling paying up without going bankrupt.
 
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I actually think £7.3M is a lot of money for this rather small casino.
Probably struggling paying up without going bankrupt.

Crockfords are part of the genting group of 44 casinos, don't think it will be money problem.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 2
 
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PAY THE MAN
HE NEVER TOUCHED THE CARDS ,10 CAMERAS WERE IN HIS VIEW
CASINOS HATE TO PAY OUT BUT LOVE TO RAKE IN THEY HAVE TO PAY OR BIG SHOTS JUST WONT PLAY SO GROSS 7 MILL WOW
 
aa88wildbill

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If he one the money fair and square, they need to pay him! And if they don't everyone should boycott that place.
 
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inflnlte

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Just read about it now. They were probably just shocked that he won so much. They let him increase his bet but refuse to pay when he wins. Then, they find no evidence he cheated lol. Small amount of money for Ivey though.
 
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surely someone knows more about this?

coould have been a publicity stunt on both sides??
 
OzExorcist

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surely someone knows more about this?

coould have been a publicity stunt on both sides??

Unlikely. Very small chance it could have been a stunt by Ivey to get himself paid, pretty much zero chance it was a stunt by the casino because there's no upside to it.

My guess is an employee with a grudge inside the casino leaked the story to the media and neither Ivey nor the casino were happy about it.

And no, nobody other than the parties involved knows any more about this because none of the parties involved want you to know any more about this. Like I said above, chances are this all got settled quietly months ago.
 
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They should payhim ,what a joke .When i lose at the casino i never get my money back.
 
FF00h

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This is awful!

Casino should pay him! Casino agreed with him to rise the stake limit to 150k per hand - so they knew that they are taking risk :)

Also note (for those who dont know baccarat):
It's virtually impossible to cheat in this game (even dealer doesn't know what card he have until showed).
 
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Sounds like bs to me. The casino needs to cowboy up and pay him and cut the crap. How many others have lost at least that much and more? I bet the casino doesn't do an investigation then.... Sounds like the casino thinks they had a right to that money since the odds are in their favor. I hope they have to pay back every penny and more for being so stupid about actually losing for once!:smokin:

Do you think people are going to a master plan to specifically cheat and lose? I can lose in a casino with no plan, I don't need collusion to make it happen!

Seriously though. I suspect the hold up has to do with the girl... it would be a real pain to find out she had some connection to it all.
 
Rappyness

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I am sure he was already paid and the public just wasnt informed. I dont think they can hold his winnings like that and not to mention he is well known and that will only make that casino look bad.
 
ScottieDuncan

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Bad rep for casino. Need to pay up.
 
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