S3mper
Poker Not Checkers
Loyaler
People are not deploying losing bots, that's not to say they can't be beaten but if they are winning, they are still taking money from losing players which means they are taking money from winning players indirectly.
Also, it makes online less desirable overall for recreational players which hurts the games.
pentazepam
Legend
Platinum Level
Very important point.
I didn't get any compensation from a site with bots 10 years ago. They motivated their decision with the fact that I was winning against the bots. But the bots still took about 1,5 million dollars from the player pool. And as you stated won against my "customers".
Everything that takes money from the ecosystem is bad for sustainability (even winning regs I have to admit).
ovitoo
Legend
Bronze Level
They retracted their offer of 100k and employment after much scrutiny. The second they announced that challenge I decided I wouldn't be depositing there again. I understand what they were TRYING to accomplish with the challenge but such a horrible disconnect from their player base who were already concerned with the issue.
S
stank12345
Rock Star
Platinum Level
AI will play a even bigger part in the future its going to be interesting what this does to online poker etc.
Inabit
Enthusiast
Silver Level
ACR Response to Recent Security Concerns
Doesn't exactly fill one with a lot of confidence. It says they will refund players but does not give any details how much they have confiscated during their review process.
Doesn't exactly fill one with a lot of confidence. It says they will refund players but does not give any details how much they have confiscated during their review process.
pentazepam
Legend
Platinum Level
Sadly, bots are everywhere.
L
larabe1997
Enthusiast
Silver Level
damn cheating always ruins the game, hope they find a way to detect it
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
I have watched Doug Polks video on this, and at least there no real evidence was presented. Apparently someone have compiled a list of 100`s of account playing mostly low to mid stakes MTTs and winning at around a 10% ROI. But this does not really prove anything else than these accounts being regulars. To conclude, that they are botting, we need a lot more than, what was presented in the Doug Polk video at least.
Luvepoker
Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Exactly how I feel about this. Without any real evidence this is not going to help prove anything. While I again am sure there could be a bots on any site this poker sites are doing all they can to catch them I do feel this is being over blown to a degree.
puzzlefish
student of the donk arts
Loyaler
The video itself is not the evidence. But ACR's subsequent investigation, findings, and response corroborates at least part of what has been presented (even if some of the accounts were *cleared* of wrongdoing). I don't think the point of Polk's videos has ever been to prove anything in particular, but to promote his brand and get viewership. I'm not really sure why you would focus on Polk of all things rather than drilling down on what had actually been posted in 2+2, as it just shows disinterest in the entire issue from your part, perhaps because you don't yet feel that it affects you.
At some point it becomes unviable to just keep sitting back and waiting for someone else to prove something to you. It either affects you to a measurable degree where you start looking for the evidence yourself, or it doesn't.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
In previous cases of cheating allegations, Doug Polk has actually presented the core pieces of evidence in his videos. Like for instance Mike Postle and the Robbi vs. Garrett insidence. So I found it to be noticeable, that he did not do it this time. But its true, that I have not bothered to go through the 2+2 thread on the subject.
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Now I found the 2+2 thread, which spurred this news. Below is the text part of the post from user TylerRM (excluding tables, graphs and links):
"Monitoring the development and profitability of poker bots has become an increasingly challenging task. Below are my findings related to the bots identified on the Winning Poker Network (WPN)."
.........
"The issue of bot proliferation has been recognized for at least 3.5 years, as discussed in this Botfarm forum thread.
Despite submitting comprehensive reports to the WPN, which unfortunately went unanswered from their security team, I harbor no illusions that they will address the problem. The security service has let down the player community. Therefore, I am reaching out to poker schools, funds, and independent players.
I urge you to examine the hands played by these bots in cash games and MTTs this year, analyze their strategies in training sessions, and actively combat them at the tables. In many games, they constitute a significant portion of the player field, ranging from 5% to 15%."
..........................
"Here are the aliases for Hand2Note 3 that I have compiled. However, I encourage you to verify and draw your own conclusions."
.......................
"Currently, Botfarm evolve approximately every 3 months but still employ exploitative tactics, allowing to push back. Given their ability to create over 100+ new accounts per month, eradicating them requires multiple waves of blocking, not just a single sweep. This issue is not exclusive to WPN; evidence suggests that ignition and GG Poker are already affected. While I lack data from all platforms, it is certain that they will infiltrate wherever there is a lucrative game."
....................................
To me this sounds mostly like just another conspiracy theory, and he certainly does not present any new evidence. So I dont really understand, why Doug Polk and other content creators jumped on this.
"Monitoring the development and profitability of poker bots has become an increasingly challenging task. Below are my findings related to the bots identified on the Winning Poker Network (WPN)."
.........
"The issue of bot proliferation has been recognized for at least 3.5 years, as discussed in this Botfarm forum thread.
Despite submitting comprehensive reports to the WPN, which unfortunately went unanswered from their security team, I harbor no illusions that they will address the problem. The security service has let down the player community. Therefore, I am reaching out to poker schools, funds, and independent players.
I urge you to examine the hands played by these bots in cash games and MTTs this year, analyze their strategies in training sessions, and actively combat them at the tables. In many games, they constitute a significant portion of the player field, ranging from 5% to 15%."
..........................
"Here are the aliases for Hand2Note 3 that I have compiled. However, I encourage you to verify and draw your own conclusions."
.......................
"Currently, Botfarm evolve approximately every 3 months but still employ exploitative tactics, allowing to push back. Given their ability to create over 100+ new accounts per month, eradicating them requires multiple waves of blocking, not just a single sweep. This issue is not exclusive to WPN; evidence suggests that ignition and GG Poker are already affected. While I lack data from all platforms, it is certain that they will infiltrate wherever there is a lucrative game."
....................................
To me this sounds mostly like just another conspiracy theory, and he certainly does not present any new evidence. So I dont really understand, why Doug Polk and other content creators jumped on this.
Last edited:
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
This is the original post in the "botfarm forum thread" posted on 29. july 2019:
"Hi all!
I apologize in advance for my English
A few years ago I was reached by the information about the pokerbot corporation, the level and size of which I at first haven't believe. Gradually collecting information from various sources, I gathered irrefutable facts about the activities of this company.
Currently, AI (brain) of almost all bots in the internet poker is provided by the corporation BotFarm (BF).
It partially conducts its own operation, using its own trainers (shells and operators) or players (avatars). The corporation employs over 600 people. In addition, BF has about a dozen partners (who have sub-partners!), which are given quotas at different poker sites.
Main technical developments:
1. Their own AI
2. Ability to hack any SSL encryption of any room.
3. Using the video capture card for grabbing picture.
Because of 2 and 3 they are so difficult to detect.
The Corporation includes the following companies:
Neolab LLC (Omsk) ITN 5501171091 (ООО "Неолаб" Омск)
Neolab-Nsk LLC (Novosibirsk) ITN 5408011544 (ООО "Неолаб-Нск" Новосибирск)
Neolab-Msk LLC (Moscow) ITN 7724465081 (ООО "Неолаб-Мск" Москва)
Neolab-Techno LLC (Omsk) ITN 5504149168 (ООО "НТ" Омск)
Progress LLC (Omsk) ITN 5504230757 (ООО "Прогресс" Омск)
Website: www.neolab.io
All information about these companies can be found on the website https://www.rusprofile.ru
Unfortunately, only in Russian language
There is also a branch office in the USA:
https://neopokerlab.com/
The Head of the BF is Kapustin Svyatoslav Nikolaevich, owner of the Progress LLC.
BF work or cooperate with:
Peter "Peter_Rus" Vlasenko - owner of the Neolab LLC and the Neolab-Nsk LLC, in the past famous poker player, have the account in 2+2 - https://www.facebook.com/people/Петр...00009318784123
Valentin Batura - owner of the Neolab-Msk LLC. https://www.facebook.com/valentin.batura
Anton Frolov - https://www.facebook.com/people/%D0%...00002099509990
Anton "Purity" Moiseenkov, in the past famous poker player - https://www.facebook.com/aamoisseenkov
Someone Vasily "BlackRaven", the real name has not yet been found out, the lead programmer of the company.
Eugene Turushev -
https://www.facebook.com/people/Euge...00006753793571
Egorov Dmitriy - affiliate, skrill partner - https://www.facebook.com/dyegorov
And many others from russian poker community.
The evidence will be published in the next post.
By my count, this corporation now has thousands of accounts online. On all limits of Texas and Omaha,*as well as in all tournaments. Strong Russian poker players known in the world poker community work on the game of bots.
From time to time, threads about capturing bots appear and fall off the net. And every time the players who achieved their exile and locks, rejoice in the fact that here is another bot-owner fallen. But it's not at all like that. No longer serious and independent bot-owners. There is a corporation BF, swallowed almost all of them.
BF provides quotas for the accounts for partners, offers various options for operation on any sites. BF provides the brain, and the partners performs operation, mutually beneficial conditions. Therefore, having lost part of the accounts, the corporation instantly replaces them, corrects the stats, changes the shells, and continues pumping out money.
I created this post in order to bring information about the fraudulent activities of the BF Corporation to the public, pull these people out of obscurity and tell about them to those whom they rob many years.
Besides, I plan to discuss with you the legality of the actions of the BF, the possibility of their criminal prosecution and methods confronting them."
............................................
No exactly strong conclusive evidence either, is it? But apparently this "botfarm" is run from Russia, and if nothing else it is true, that there are many russian players on ACR. Or at least there was, before they stopped showing players location last year. So yeah. If you dont want to play against russians, be they bot users or not, then you should probably not play on ACR
"Hi all!
I apologize in advance for my English
A few years ago I was reached by the information about the pokerbot corporation, the level and size of which I at first haven't believe. Gradually collecting information from various sources, I gathered irrefutable facts about the activities of this company.
Currently, AI (brain) of almost all bots in the internet poker is provided by the corporation BotFarm (BF).
It partially conducts its own operation, using its own trainers (shells and operators) or players (avatars). The corporation employs over 600 people. In addition, BF has about a dozen partners (who have sub-partners!), which are given quotas at different poker sites.
Main technical developments:
1. Their own AI
2. Ability to hack any SSL encryption of any room.
3. Using the video capture card for grabbing picture.
Because of 2 and 3 they are so difficult to detect.
The Corporation includes the following companies:
Neolab LLC (Omsk) ITN 5501171091 (ООО "Неолаб" Омск)
Neolab-Nsk LLC (Novosibirsk) ITN 5408011544 (ООО "Неолаб-Нск" Новосибирск)
Neolab-Msk LLC (Moscow) ITN 7724465081 (ООО "Неолаб-Мск" Москва)
Neolab-Techno LLC (Omsk) ITN 5504149168 (ООО "НТ" Омск)
Progress LLC (Omsk) ITN 5504230757 (ООО "Прогресс" Омск)
Website: www.neolab.io
All information about these companies can be found on the website https://www.rusprofile.ru
Unfortunately, only in Russian language
There is also a branch office in the USA:
https://neopokerlab.com/
The Head of the BF is Kapustin Svyatoslav Nikolaevich, owner of the Progress LLC.
BF work or cooperate with:
Peter "Peter_Rus" Vlasenko - owner of the Neolab LLC and the Neolab-Nsk LLC, in the past famous poker player, have the account in 2+2 - https://www.facebook.com/people/Петр...00009318784123
Valentin Batura - owner of the Neolab-Msk LLC. https://www.facebook.com/valentin.batura
Anton Frolov - https://www.facebook.com/people/%D0%...00002099509990
Anton "Purity" Moiseenkov, in the past famous poker player - https://www.facebook.com/aamoisseenkov
Someone Vasily "BlackRaven", the real name has not yet been found out, the lead programmer of the company.
Eugene Turushev -
https://www.facebook.com/people/Euge...00006753793571
Egorov Dmitriy - affiliate, skrill partner - https://www.facebook.com/dyegorov
And many others from russian poker community.
The evidence will be published in the next post.
By my count, this corporation now has thousands of accounts online. On all limits of Texas and Omaha,*as well as in all tournaments. Strong Russian poker players known in the world poker community work on the game of bots.
From time to time, threads about capturing bots appear and fall off the net. And every time the players who achieved their exile and locks, rejoice in the fact that here is another bot-owner fallen. But it's not at all like that. No longer serious and independent bot-owners. There is a corporation BF, swallowed almost all of them.
BF provides quotas for the accounts for partners, offers various options for operation on any sites. BF provides the brain, and the partners performs operation, mutually beneficial conditions. Therefore, having lost part of the accounts, the corporation instantly replaces them, corrects the stats, changes the shells, and continues pumping out money.
I created this post in order to bring information about the fraudulent activities of the BF Corporation to the public, pull these people out of obscurity and tell about them to those whom they rob many years.
Besides, I plan to discuss with you the legality of the actions of the BF, the possibility of their criminal prosecution and methods confronting them."
............................................
No exactly strong conclusive evidence either, is it? But apparently this "botfarm" is run from Russia, and if nothing else it is true, that there are many russian players on ACR. Or at least there was, before they stopped showing players location last year. So yeah. If you dont want to play against russians, be they bot users or not, then you should probably not play on ACR
puzzlefish
student of the donk arts
Loyaler
Ok, so they provided hand histories and notes to examine but it's just a conspiracy theory? Ok.
ACR is the first stop. There is a botfarm branch in the US. It's a matter of time before you are playing against these on every site, if we are not there already.No exactly strong conclusive evidence either, is it? But apparently this "botfarm" is run from Russia, and if nothing else it is true, that there are many russian players on ACR. Or at least there was, before they stopped showing players location last year. So yeah. If you dont want to play against russians, be they bot users or not, then you should probably not play on ACR
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
Apparently they are from Russia, and since russians can no longer play on pokerstars, I feel reasonably safe there
What exactly do the hand histories prove and how? Do all these accounts play in a similar way? And this could not be because, they all use solvers and/or subscribe to the same training sites? Not saying these accounts could not be bot users. But I am not convinced just from reading those posts on 2+2.
puzzlefish
student of the donk arts
Loyaler
Do all Russians live in Russia? Is there a requirement for all people involved in this organization to be Russian and to be physically located there? Do bot accounts have to physically exist in and operate out of a particular location in Russia? Hmm.Apparently they are from Russia, and since russians can no longer play on PokerStars, I feel reasonably safe there
What exactly do the hand histories prove and how? Do all these accounts play in a similar way? And this could not be because, they all use solvers and/or subscribe to the same training sites? Not saying these accounts could not be bot users. But I am not convinced just from reading those posts on 2+2.
Luvepoker
Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Your correct but I also don't have the time or capability to prove or disprove this. I can only evaluate this based on what I see. Looking at the lates post from @fundiver199 I pretty much agree with what he says.
Now I can agree it's possible there are bots out there and would not be surprised if I played vs some, I just don't believe that. big of an issue on the levels I play. Or as some have said a large % of the players are bots. I do also believe many "Not saying you" use Bots as an excuse or a good conspiracy theory's to how they lose. I would just like to see real evidence to there being bot issues.
One of my favorite moments in CC games was when someone pointed out the BOT in our game. After several comments by this player the BOT said Hi, but I am not a bot. I got a lot of LOL that day.
Blumoon888
Enthusiast
Silver Level
It's definitely on my mind! I keep seeing people going allin with crap and winning! Paranoia😂😂🤬🤬🤬